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IO-520 Starter

Tom3holer

Tom3holer

MEMBER
Cape Cod
I posted a while back about a slow starting issue on my newly acquired 185 with a 2009 factory reman IO-520 and am at the point of looking for a new starter after troubleshooting everything else.
Many have recommended the Energizer boat anchor. I have seen the Hartzell M-Drive which has a feature I like.
My starter adapter started, shortly after I got the airplane, engaging on shutdown in that it stopped the engine/prop from turning backwards slightly as they most all do coming up on the last compression stroke without not enough momentum to get over it. I know some adapters do that but it just be good for the adapter spring. The M-Drive has a clutch that is supposed to totally disengage after power is removed.

Any thoughts on this will be greatly appreciated.

Tom
 
You probably have a Lamar starter on your reman. Somebody correct me if I'm mistaken but I think Hartzell bought and renamed Lamar starters and those are now Hartzell's Energizer starters. Hartzell recently bought Skytec, too, by the way. The Skywagon guys I know favor Skytec. You'll hear old stories about Skytec problems but those have been worked out and more recent pireps are good.
 
Skytec's the way... spins it so good that even I can hot start an IO-520!
 
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Years ago my dad had a 24v AgTruck. It was fussy on hot starts so he put a 12v starter on it. That thing would SPIN. Amazingly it never failed in the remaining years we had the plane.
 
Borrow a known good starter

check that your starter cable is good. Check that you have good ground straps. Check your battery state of charge and power cables

try the borrowed starter

The point is to make sure its not your starter drive slipping. Sorry, but it happens. Had one at work this summer that needed to be changed out due to slipping.......and the engine was about 3 years since overhaul/reman.

The mechanic who had to change it out thought I was full of BS when I said it was slipping and I could hear it.

Oh well
 
We ordered am Energizer the other day. A month back I went through the entire starting system from battery to starter motor terminal. One thing I discovered was that the battery ground strap was connected to a baggage area shelf angle running across the shelf. When I removed it to make sure it was clean underneath found that it was still fully zinc chromated making not an ideal contact. Cleaned it up but it seemed to make only a slight difference. In looking it over the other day in the hanger I noticed there was no Ground strap on the engine to the firewall. I called Seaplanes West to be sure the mount did not have internal straps in those large iso dampeners. They do not so installed a strap.
Still in the hanger for several more days so won't be able to test it for a while.

Oldcrow I liked your comment on hot starting the 520. Learning the techniques which might be the same as my Debonair IO-470 but have not had it long enough to know.

T
 
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1. Did you overhaul the starter?
2. Did you overhaul the starter adapter?

You need to find out which adapter you have. The older style are best paired with the heavy energizer starters. The older style will break the spring when they fail, the newer will just continue to rub. Can you turn your starter motor by hand? If not it has likely toasted your starter adapter.

http://modifiedaircraftaccessories.com/
 
Behindpropellers,
Thank you for the reply.
No I have not overhauled either the starter or adapter.
Both were new in 2009 with 150 hrs on them now.
Weather its an older style or newer I don't know but was a 2009 factory reman. The starter is marked "IRSKA" and is of the smaller design.
The adapter is pictured below.



Starter adaptor.jpg

When you ask if I turn the starter motor by hand I would guess I can because if I turn the prop backwards it turns the starter motor. That was my concern as I have not seen this before.
 

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The starter says Iskra and was the factory installed starter at the time, but was told they have since switched starters.
 
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I would guess that your 2009 / 150 hours starter is just fine.
The 2009 battery is most likely the culprit.
 
I am going to replace the battery first and see how it goes.
The engine has always started BUT at times it will actually stop on a compression stroke then slowly go over and resume cranking. Not a comfortable feeling when I am 50 miles from civilization in Northern Maine.
Am leaning toward the new Gill sealed 7035-28 as the IPR and IPP specs are better.
Anyone had any experience with these?

Tom
 
I have a couple of threads on this so thought I'd update this one.
The battery was actually fairly new and was not the culprit. I replaced the Iskra starter with a Energizer and problem solved.
It now spins over much faster and upon shutdown allows the prop to turn back a bit, as they all do, which the geared Iskra did not.
 
FWIW a guy at my airport just purchased a new factory-reman IO-520 for his 185 and it came with an Energizer starter.
BTW that engine is just beautiful! I drool every time I look at it.
Continental Gold is just so much more attractive than Lycoming Gray (IMHO of course).
 
You guys are making me nervous. My engine has an Iskra which has been working just fine. A friend just installed a factory overhauled 550 in his 185 which came with an Energizer.
 
There's has been several threads about problems with the Isra starters, I think they may also be something on Nigara airparts about them.
 
The Hartzell M-Drive is a piece of junk. I had two on my 185. When heat soaked they grind internally and fail to turn the engine over. If you go to Hartzell's website you will see they no longer advertise it.
 
I have a TSIO-520R in my 210. I have flown the plane for almost 20 years. On the first start of the day it always stops on compression. Maybe twice. So I have to cycle the ignition switch. But it always starts. For a while in my younger years I would rotate the prop by hand during preflight and it wouldn't hang up on compression. I kind of assumed it was normal.

Mine me is a factory reman also. Maybe I should upgrade also?

My friends always give me a hard time saying "I hope it starts". My response is "I hope it doesn't quit"
 
I talked at length with the head tech at Niagra and it was an eyeopener.
He said they are seeing a new issue with the starter adapter springs. This is on engines with a geared starter like the Iskra which does not allow the engine to turn backwards on shutdown. The springs are breaking with a wavy pattern on them which they have not seen before He theorizes that the high stress on the spring abruptly stopping the prop during the shutdown could be causing this. I also called TCM and the tech did admit they got away from the geared starter a while back. Mine was a 09 overhaul. That was enough for me after seeing what a broken spring can do on a O-470 at my field.
Again, the new Energizer is a joy to watch it spin over the prop and allow the prop to do its thing on shutdown.

T
 
Update,
About a month ago I noticed a sorta grinding sound when I started my engine. Oh no now the starter adapter. Called Niagra again and talked with the same tech. He said to check the starter relay by bypassing it as that sometimes was an issue. That did not work as it made the same noise. We removed the 10 month old starter and ran it just momentarily on a battery and it indeed made a bad bearing kinda noise. Fortunately the Hartzell starter comes with a 3 year warrantee so we replaced it with a new one. Quiet cranking once again.
 
I had to replace my starter adapter last year. No fun! After talking to Niagara, I did two things. One, installed a new Tempest starter. Two, I quit running camguard. I had a Hartzell M Drive starter that lasted about 25 hours. Most likely, the Hartzell damaged my adapter. Niagara said if you want to run a light weight starter, the Skytec ST5 is the best option. Iskra is the worst. The best starter for the big Continentals is the Tempest. Camguard is great for engine parts but bad for starter adapters.

Chris
 
Skywagon said:
Niagara said if you want to run a light weight starter, the Skytec ST5 is the best option. Iskra is the worst. The best starter for the big Continentals is the Tempest.
Click to expand...
Ouch! Iskra is the starter on my IO-550 supplied by Continental with the new engine. So far there have been no noticeable issues.
 
Hartzell's M Drive was a piece of junk. They know it (I talked to them directly) which is why it is no longer available.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That is what he told me also. I just replaced my Hartzell energizer with a factory new one under warrantee.
When I talked to Niagra the tech I told him the issue I was having with the starter adapter staying engaged upon shutdown and the prop coming to an abrupt stop as it wanted to turn backwards slightly on the last compression stroke just before stopping. He said that was normal on the newer starter adapters BUT when using a geared starter like the Irska that came with it was causing problems with the spring. It seems they were seeing unusual markings on the broken springs in adapters that had come in for repair and all were from engines with geared starters.
Well if CamGuard is an issue then would not Aeroshell plus which has a similar anti scuff package be an issue also?
 
Pretty sure the Aeroshell plus additive is not the same stuff as Cam Guard.
Although they may be intended to do the same thing.

FWIW I do seem to recall reading something from NIagra (starter adapter outfit) advising against use of A/S 15-50 oil
due to slippage issues.
 
When starting my 2001 reman, the prop turns very slowly the first half revolution with a “whining” sound then the rotation speeds up and the engine starts. Is this a starter or adapter problem?

903BE3C9-A7F6-43B2-96E9-490D0EDB999E.jpeg
 

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