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Thread: Big News! CUBCRAFTERS DEBUTS NEW FLAGSHIP: XCub

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by OLDCROWE View Post
    I believe in this case that would be "ASTM compliant" vs. "FAA Certified."
    Sooo that brings up the next question. Will there be a kit version, similar to what Dakota cub does with the Super 18 inquiring minds want to know.

  2. #82
    Crash's Avatar
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    Let's see..... 1200lb +, O-360 (180hp) Cub with a 39 mph stall speed, cruises at 145 mph on small tires / spring gear, with a constant speed prop. $300,000.00 dollars U.S.

    Real world, put it on standard gear with AOSS so it doesn't bounce like a rubber ball upon landing (i.e. Cessna) and 31" Bushwheels so you can land where a Cub lands, and maybe you'll see 120 mph.

    I already own a Piper Super Cub with an O-360 that will stall @ 39 mph, weighs 1204 lbs, and cruises at 107 mph (31" Bushwheels) at 2400 rpm for $200,000.00 less and could most likely pick up a few mph with a Sutton constant speed prop, (not that I'd EVER want a CS on a Cub).

    Don't see the value in spending that kind of difference for a few mph when I could own two really nice Cubs, one on wheels and one on floats, and bank $50K - $100K.

    Just my take on it.

    Take care,

    Crash
    Last edited by Crash; 06-14-2016 at 12:04 PM.
    "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
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  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Let's see..... 1200lb +, O-360 (180hp) Cub with a 39 mph stall speed, cruises at 145 mph on small tires / spring gear, with a constant speed prop. $300,000.00 dollars U.S.

    Real world, put it on standard gear with AOSS so it doesn't bounce like a rubber ball upon landing (i.e. Cessna) and 31" Bushwheels so you can land where a Cub lands, and maybe you'll see 120 mph.

    I already own a Piper Super Cub with an O-360 that will stall @ 39 mph, weighs 1204 lbs, and cruises at 107 mph (31" Bushwheels) at 2400 rpm for $200,000.00 less and could most likely pick up a few mph with a Sutton constant speed prop, (not that I'd EVER want a CS on a Cub).

    Don't see the value in spending that kind of difference for a few mph when I could own two really nice Cubs, one on wheels and one on floats, and bank $50K - $100K.

    Just my take on it.

    Take care,

    Crash
    Yeah, but you still don't have cupholders
    "Always looking up"

  4. #84
    Mauleguy's Avatar
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    I have to agree with Crash on this one. I think CC just built a high wing RV in a way. There is no secret to why it goes faster and you could pretty much take a cub and bolt on spring gear and a constant speed propeller, make some fairing for the wing struts and gear and do the same on small tires... I also hate cowlings that have no access, that is the beautiful thing about a Cub. They went the wrong direction for me.

  5. #85

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    I'm very interested in the X Cub's gear. Simple. No moving parts. I know it isn't new but this installation may propel development and evolution. I'm looking forward to some field reports.

  6. #86
    Chicken Hawk's Avatar
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    Cub Crafters is doing today what Piper did in its day......push the envelope. I applaude Cub Crafters. It's dissapointing how quickly people who haven't flown this aircraft are willing to trash it because it doesn't fit thier needs or budget.....seems there's always someone willing to pee in someone else's Cheerios!
    Last edited by Chicken Hawk; 06-15-2016 at 08:51 PM.

  7. #87
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    If they sell a bunch of these in the next ten years, the used stock should become more affordable. (mods will no doubt follow) New Husky's are 350-400K but 12-15 yr old low time ones are 110-125K. The reason I'm building CC EX was I couldn't see spending 110K+ for a 50yr old PA18 that I can't do the maintenance on. (and I wasn't skilled enough to build a cub from scratch before dad gets too old or dies)

    If it were not for STC'd fuselages and wings, there would be a lot fewer "old cubs" to fly. New airplanes in the GA pipeline is always a good thing.

    Jake

  8. #88

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    I, too, like the idea of spring gear. It's strong, simple, and much more aerodynamic than hydrosorbs and bungees.

    I never bounced my 140 after the first few flights. Just like toe brakes and riding a bike, once you learn how to use them it's easy. How many 180/185 pilots wished they had hydrosorbs instead of spring gear?

  9. #89
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    And I have read, but don't know first hand, that the aluminum spring gear is substantially less "springy" than steel spring gear.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  10. #90
    Crash's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chicken Hawk View Post
    Cub Crafters is doing today what Piper did in its day......push the envelope. I applaude Cub Crafters. It's dissapointing how quickly people who haven't flown this aircraft are willing to trash it because it doesn't fit thier needs or budget.....seems there's always someone willing to pee in someone else's Cheerios!
    Not dissing their work. Only doing a value equation. Maybe I've been around these planes too long (since 1962), when they were $3,000.00, NEW!

    $300K Really????? Give me a break! They're still a two place, rag wing, powered by 60 year old technology.

    Crash
    "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10

  11. #91
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Not dissing their work. Only doing a value equation. Maybe I've been around these planes too long (since 1962), when they were $3,000.00, NEW!

    $300K Really????? Give me a break! They're still a two place, rag wing, powered by 60 year old technology.

    Crash
    I see and work on quite a few Husky's and they are well north of $300K. Some people have a different mission and skill set. If you figured your labor and cost on any of your airplanes and then add in the engineering that was already proved I bet you would be in the same ballpark. The market will tell if this is a good move for CC. Regardless I am sure what they learned will trickle out and be implimented into peoples experimental builds.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  12. #92
    Chicken Hawk's Avatar
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    Wonder if they looked into using composite type spring landing gear......lots of performance cars now running composite leaf springs. Proven to be lighter, stronger & more durable than aluminum & steel.

    http://www.compositesworld.com/artic...ension-systems

  13. #93
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    I would like to go faster but it is all a compromise. When I was breaking my engine in with the loaner prop from Western Aircraft Propeller my airplane would do a 125 mph on 35" ABW. Now I am running a 44 pitch just so I can cruise a little faster (105 mph at 2500 rpm). I would bet money that with a constant speed prop and small tires like they have on the X cub shown my airplane would do 130 mph, do some fairing work and gain a another 5. If you want to land off airport you need bigger tires and I don't think spring gear is the way to go. Prove me wrong and show the airplane on 31" with spring gear landing on basket ball size rocks and then actual cruise airspeed with a tire that works for off airport.

    I will even offer up my services to come test the airplane in an environment that cubs should be able to hang in.

    I like what Cubcrafters does in the way of building quality aircraft, they have the resources to better the planes we fly. I just don't think this is anything cutting edge as far as an airplane that suits my needs. I would like to have the weight savings stuff this airplane has minus the parts that don't make sense for a working airplane. I had a cowling on Bushwacker for 11 years that I could not just swing open on each side and it is much nicer having a cub style cowling where I can look at and work on without taking out a bunch of screws.

  14. #94

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    Kind of like the difference between a Honda Goldwing and an old BMW F700?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJ View Post
    CUBCRAFTERS DEBUTS NEW FLAGSHIP:XCub


    AIRCRAFT
    Certification: FAA Part 23 Certified
    Category: Normal (2,300 lbs GW) & Utility (1,980 lbs GW)
    Type: Single Engine Land & Sea
    Crew & Passengers: 2

    PERFORMANCE
    Maximum Speed: 153 mph in level flight
    Cruise (75% power): 145 mph
    Rate of Climb: 1,500 ft/min
    Endurance: 6+ hrs
    Range: 800 mi
    Takeoff Distance: 170 ft
    Landing Distance: 170 ft
    Is this the same airplane that is approved under the new TC A00053SE? If so, those performance numbers are misleading. The TC gives a VNE of 142 mph and a VNO of only 117 mph. These numbers are lower than a PA-18. Let's compare apples to apples. If these numbers have any semblance of accuracy they must be referring to TAS at altitude.
    N1PA

  16. #96
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    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/f0f5bb0e13acee3d86257fca00675b63/$FILE/A00053SE.pdf

    Airspeed Limits VO (2300 lbs) 86 KCASVO (1980 lbs) 79 KCASVFE (46º) 73 KCASVNO 117 KCASVNE 142 KCAS



    KCAS
    Knots Calibrated Air Speed

  17. #97
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    My info came from a CD which I receive regularly and it said VNE 142 mph KCAS which does appear to be incorrect. Even considering this error a VNO of 117 KCAS = 134 mph. This is a limit and is well under the claimed 145 mph cruise at 75%.
    N1PA

  18. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    My info came from a CD which I receive regularly and it said VNE 142 mph KCAS which does appear to be incorrect. Even considering this error a VNO of 117 KCAS = 134 mph. This is a limit and is well under the claimed 145 mph cruise at 75%.
    145 mph TAS = 125 mph IAS at 8000 ft (~75% power)
    DaveG
    DaveG
    Exp Cub N118DG

  19. #99
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
    145 mph TAS = 125 mph IAS at 8000 ft (~75% power)
    DaveG
    Hmmm, we're still stretching the truth. The absolute maximum altitude that this engine can achieve 75% is 7,000 feet.
    http://www.maulepilot.com/lycomingperformance.pdf
    N1PA

  20. #100
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    To me it will be most interesting to see what these airplanes actually weigh empty when they get into production. A stated empty weight of 1200 pounds is a good target, we'll see if they can actually hit it.

    MTV

  21. #101
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    A local pilot took delivery of a new X-Cub on Christmas Eve and has accumulated 49 hours on it so far. He brought it over last Saturday and I spent a lot of time walking around it and looking at the differences between it and a Super Cub. It is obvious that speed was very important by looking at all the fairings. One thing I missed at Oshkosh last year was the lack of aileron control cables up the front lift struts. Instead the X-Cub has carbon fiber pushrods up the rear struts with a bell crank about midway.

    Bellcrank in the rear strut.
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    I notice these tabs on the tops of the elevators. They are the same on bothe the left and right elevators and am not sure what they are.
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    I noticed that the counter balance on the rudder is shorter than standard Cub and that the leading edge of the vertical stabilizer is thicker and has a sharper nose.

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    I was told the ventral fin between the fuselage center stringer and the vertical fin was added because when the rudder was pushed into a yaw in cruise the airplane would not come out of it. The ailerons are flexed up. This picture was taken with the stick in the middle and ailerons equal on both sides.

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    The nose of the aileron is more rounded as well and is probably why they felt more effective and lighter in feel.

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  22. #102
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    As I said before, looking at the X-Cub you can tell it was built with speed in mind. Looking at the windshield.
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    The Grove gear, gun drilled for brakes and the associated fairings.
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    and the strut to fuselage, wing and jury strut fairings.

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    This is serial number 11 and is called a Launch Edition.

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    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  23. #103
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    I did get to fly it and although I am no test pilot I can say I fly my own Cub almost everyday along with lots of other Super Cubs, Huskys and other similar airplanes. The airplane weighs a little over 1300 lbs empty and we had 34 gallons of gas but it jumped off the ground and felt very nice on the controls. The ailerons were the most notable flight control difference. They felt lighter and more responsive than a standard Super Cub. The electric elevator trim is on the stick with the indicator front and center on the panel and I found it very intuitive. Slow flight both with and without flaps was very stable even though the stall warning horn was blaring the whole time. AS was at zero and I didn't look at the GPS but it felt as slow as my SC. The stall with flaps was typical falling leaf decent with good visibility over the nose and the ailerons still had effectiveness. I did not explore the speed realm of flight but slow flight felt good and stable and I made a nice stable approach to a wheel landing, no bounce but I could tell I was on 26" Goodyears and spring gear rather than 31" Bushwheels and bungee gear. I enjoyed flying it and would enjoy playing with it some more. I felt very comfortable in it, it flies like a Cub. I would like to try some off airport/rough field stuff with the spring gear and a set of Bushwheels.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  24. #104
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Trig radio and the CGR-30P.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  25. #105
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    One hick-up on Sat was when the X-Cub went to leave. The pilot noticed that the right outboard rudder pedal attachment tab to the fuselage had broken. I know, leave it to the mechanic to break the new airplane.

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    Removed the pedal and the both titanium side panels which allows access to the titanium floorboard and we were able to use a piece of all thread and a piece of tubing as a spacer and weld the tab back on. There was no penetration into the base metal and the other tabs appeared the same way so we ran a bead over them as well and reassembled. I put together a web album of pictures of the failure, and detailed the repair we made and forwarded it to Cub Crafters on Monday morning. We traded several emails and a phone call on Monday and I got a call Tuesday afternoon that a Service Bulletin was in the works and would be issued next week. I got a text from a dealer yesterday that there are 9 airplanes in the fleet so far and that they plan on having them all fixed within two weeks. I thought that was a very fast response to the problem. I figured there would be some teething pains with a new design like this and was very impressed with the quick response to this issue.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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  26. #106
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Foy View Post
    Trig radio and the CGR-30P.
    They copied you Eddie, they know a good thing when they see it.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  27. #107
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Except I did it for $200,000 less.

    I could buy one but I would have to live in my RV beside it.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  28. #108
    Scouter's Avatar
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    Let's see, 9 units sold at say, average of $300000K for the Launch editions is pretty close to 2.7 million. Not counting the Carbon Cub sales. Pretty decent cash flow for the bean counters? X cub been out for a year now?
    jim

  29. #109

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    Mike,
    I saw a near new X Cub advertised recently, specs said empty weight was 1304 lbs. Pretty heavy in view of having my Husky down to 1309 lbs, with 31" Bushwheels, big tailwheel, extended cub gear with AOSS. Of course the Husky is not as fast, but very similar weight.
    I have done some fairing work on the extended cub gear and AOSS, with fairings added about 8MPH to speed vs. uncovered.
    Still slower than a Husky with stock gear, but not by much now. We are trying the fairings on our cub to see what that will add.
    And one can plop down on AOSS with no bounce, not that I do that!!!
    John

  30. #110
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    My 62 Pa-18 with extended gear, 31s, and aux tanks weighs in at 1205 with no titanium or carbon fiber.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
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  31. #111
    40m's Avatar
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    55 year old orange compared to a 1 year old apple.

    From Genesis: "And God promised men that good and obedient wives would be
    found in all corners of the earth."

    Then he made the earth round... and He laughed and laughed and laughed!
    Likes Chicken Hawk liked this post

  32. #112
    txpacer's Avatar
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    My '53 is 1114 lb on extended gear and 31s. It is also painfully slow, but that's OK. Being old and ugly (the plane, that is), I don't get in so much trouble when I drag a wingtip through the trees. I don't think that would be the case on a new, pretty plane.

  33. #113
    ScottnT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 40m View Post
    55 year old orange compared to a 1 year old apple.
    This.

  34. #114

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    Steve,

    Any report from the owner on what his real world cruise speed was in knots?

    Ed

  35. #115
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by john schwamm View Post
    Mike,
    I saw a near new X Cub advertised recently, specs said empty weight was 1304 lbs. Pretty heavy in view of having my Husky down to 1309 lbs, with 31" Bushwheels, big tailwheel, extended cub gear with AOSS. Of course the Husky is not as fast, but very similar weight.
    I have done some fairing work on the extended cub gear and AOSS, with fairings added about 8MPH to speed vs. uncovered.
    Still slower than a Husky with stock gear, but not by much now. We are trying the fairings on our cub to see what that will add.
    And one can plop down on AOSS with no bounce, not that I do that!!!
    John
    John,

    good information, thanks. It really is amazing how much speed one can get from some relatively simple mods.

    MTV

  36. #116
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasater View Post
    Steve,

    Any report from the owner on what his real world cruise speed was in knots?

    Ed
    I will find out.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers

  37. #117
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Comparing weights between an airplane certified under CAR3 and one certified under Part 23 is a mute point. The structural requirement differences are crazy. Gear has to take a frontal impact which doesn't make much sense in a conventional gear airplane because the stronger gear at a frontal impact will put you on your back rather than sliding on the belly. All the clevis pins have two cotter pins, castle nuts are nylon lock nuts and cotter pins, require two locking devices on flight control fasteners. It is obvious that the X-Cub is for a different market than my beater Super Cub, it is nice to see the inovation and that there are people out there than can buy an airplane like this. Reminds me of back in 1998 when a customer of mine bought a brand new Husky for $98K and all the airport bums poopawed it. It came in and got regular maintenance where their 50 year old airplanes always had some kind of surprise during inspection. I alwys thought you pay now or pay later. I have always had to pay later through sweat equity.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
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