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Thread: Building a Scratch Built Cub

  1. #81

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    These can be verified directly with the builders so no smoke and mirrors. Factual information and real numbers will be used to verify everything on this forum page. Many get aggressive when actual real life comparisons are made and would rather post ambiguous information that never lead to a conclusion. Viking believe that comparative, real world data is useful.


    • Patrick's Corvair to Viking 130 change = +/- 2lb weight change
    • Richard Jones Corvair to Viking 130 change = +/- 2lb weight change
    • Roger Grable's Corvair to Viking 130 change = +/- 2lb weight change
    • Jon's O-200 to Viking 130 change = +/- 2lb weight change


    Conclusion:

    • The Viking 130, installed and flying has the same weight as the Corvair and the O-200
    • The Viking has 30 more hp than the 100 hp engines it replaced
    • The Viking has over 250 lb of additional thrust, above any of the replaced engines.
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  2. #82

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    https://www.ebay.com/itm/232674701340 Just a thought is all, absolutley no more is meant.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by tempdoug View Post
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/232674701340 Just a thought is all, absolutley no more is meant.
    That engine is listed under outboard engines, no reserve. Someone is asleep at the controls as they list the price on their website at $9995

  4. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by NoCub View Post
    That engine is listed under outboard engines, no reserve. Someone is asleep at the controls as they list the price on their website at $9995
    Maybe, maybe not. Price in the end will tell the game.

  5. #85

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    Man congrats on the fine craftsmanship. I just decided to start a scratch build myself. I have the northland plans and am currently going through those . I have a couple of questions for ya . What and where did you get your plans? And whatís your material cost so far , just the fuse and wings ? Thanks I canít wait to see your finished project.

  6. #86
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    Thank you DekotaE for your positive comments,

    Regarding my project plans and costs, I canoffer the following:

    PLANS
    Northland plans - These are basically the traditionalSuper Cub prints with some additional prints included, as well as having some of the prints redrawn. Wespecifically used the fuselage drawing from Northland to weld it up.

    Wag Aero Sport Trainer(Cubby) plans - Wereference these plans as they are easy to follow to quickly understand theassemblies of parts, and they provide a great overall understanding of theproject. Caution: always reference the Super Cub or Northland plans for the correct materialtype and thickness, as the Cubby plans are for the lighter J-3 style Cubs, and different design features.

    Supercubproject.com - Thanks goes to Christian Sturm for placing theoriginal Super cub prints on his web site. I reference these plans to view theprints while in the shop with my tablet. Christian also has some great photosof his project for reference as well.

    Photos - I take lots of photos of every Super Cub I find,covered and uncovered. This is so helpful when building from scratch. I appreciate all of the people who have kindly allowed me to take photos.

    Cost to Date: My cost to date is around $3500. This includes Matco Wheels and Brakes and wing spar stock. Basically, the only pre-made parts that we bought are the four wing attachment fittings at the top of the fuselage, the two wheel axles, and a few pulleys.

    I am trying to keep this plane modest in weight and cost, where my plan includes finding an O-200 or a C-90 to power it.

    I hope this information helps.
    john

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  7. #87

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    This will be super helpful to me . Right now Iím trying to go through all the drawings and filter out what I need and what I donít. Iím going to put a mock up together in solidworks first , because Iím planning a few modifications I think it will be easier than trial and error. Iím 6,7 220 so I want a little more leg room , I want easy access to the baggage. Just some small stuff like that . I also will be doing a Fowler type flap and some leading edge slats on my wings . As a machinist and a journeyman fabricator you guys did top notch work on your builds !

  8. #88

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    for a 0-200,A tip over cessna 150 about 70 miles from me just sold for $300 complete.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 03-23-2018 at 06:06 PM.

  9. #89
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    Scratch Building Update - Trim Tab and Baggage Compartment Door Opening Frame

    IMG_4107.jpg

    I elected to fabricate a traditional trim tab on the left elevator.
    For the lack of a better term, two little spars are needed at the hinge
    locations for the trim tab. I used 0.025" thick 4130 sheet to form
    the spars. One of the elevator ribs needs to be cut away
    (at the center of the trim tab) to slide the spars into place.
    Two short ribs are added at each end of the trim tab, and
    everything is welded in place.

    IMG_4110.jpg

    Two additional ribs are added to the trim tab to
    stiffen it up. If a person wants to simply attach a
    piano hinge to the upper surfaces of the tab and
    the elevator, now is the time to it before the tab
    is cut away from the elevator. I will likely attach
    the hinges to the inside surfaces of the tab and
    elevator spars to hide the hinge better. After
    cutting the tab away from the elevator,
    final welding can be done, and the horn to actuate
    the tab can be welded in place.



    Hinge Frame.jpg

    A small baggage door will be included on the right
    side of the fuselage. Here, I formed up the bottom
    edge of the door opening frame using 0.025: thick
    4130 sheet steel. I rolled the edge over and bent a
    little flange on it to stiffen it up, then cut, fit and
    welded it into place in line with the stringer.
    An aluminum piano hinge will be riveted to this piece
    and attached to the baggage door.

    Magnets.jpg

    Small pieces of "C" channel were fabricated, then cut and fit
    into place as shown. Prior to welding, I primed the
    upper longeron and the inside of the upper baggage door
    frame member. 90 degree magnets were used to square
    up the parts prior to welding.

    IMG_4114.jpg

    The final door opening size is 10" high by 16" wide.
    This door frame system appears to be plenty stiff
    enough to maintain its shape after the fabric shrinks
    around it.

    I think my next step is attaching the stringers and
    fabricating a control lever to operate the trim tab.

    Thank you for looking.

    John
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  10. #90

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    Know of a O-200 fr sale. Was on a flying eurocope that hanger fell on. Think it ran good.
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  11. #91
    stknrddr's Avatar
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    Know of a O-200 fr sale. Was on a flying eurocope that hanger fell on. Think it ran good.
    Thanks Don, I'm interested in learning more. Please private message me if you would like to.
    john

  12. #92

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    Been gone acouple days. PM'd ya.

  13. #93
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    I also know of an O-200 for sale. came out of a Cessna 150. Engine is located in central MN.
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  14. #94
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    Wing Parts Building Update

    The following is a quick update regarding some wing parts

    IMG_4358.jpg

    Here's a photo of some wing parts bought from Jay at Javron
    in Brainard, Minnesota. These are strut attachment brackets
    and all of the drag and anti-drag wires located inside the wings.
    Very nice parts.

    IMG_4360.jpg

    We are fabricating drag struts which are the compression struts
    located inside the wings running from spar to spar. These are being
    made from 3/4" x 3/4" x 0.049" wall 6061T6 square tubing,
    with round corners. Plugs are required to set inside of each end of the
    struts and can be seen in the photo. Upon final assembly,
    the plugs will set flush to the ends of the tubes.
    The plugs are made from 6061T6 aluminum, machined to shape,
    then drilled and tapped to receive a 5/16-24 AN bolt.
    Prior to through drilling across the assembly, the "foot" needs to
    be fabricated for each end as well.

    stock in vertical mill.jpg

    Fabricating the plugs - Here, a short length of aluminum
    stock is clamped in a vertical mill, to machine the stock
    square and to chamfer the four edges to fit inside the tubing.
    After milling six lengths of the material, the bars are cut into
    1-1/8" pieces.

    drilling and tapping.jpg

    The short pieces are then drilled and tapped.

    IMG_4355.jpg

    Our friend and fellow airplane builder (Lee)
    accommodated us by letting us use his machine shop.
    Lee set up the machines, for me to feed the parts
    in and out, and run the mill. It was a real treat to
    fabricate parts using a milling machine.

    IMG_4356.jpg

    Here's our stock of plugs. More than enough
    for two sets of wings. An additional hole will
    be drilled at a later time across each plug to
    hold the plug into place in the compression tubes.

    Thanks for looking,
    John
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  15. #95
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    Scratch Building Update - Wing Drag Strut Fabrication

    IMG_4585.jpg
    I'm in the process of making the Drag Struts (cross members)
    inside the wing. These are the struts that span from spar to spar.
    The photo above is a finished strut.

    IMG_4561.jpg
    The tube is 6061-T6 3/4"x 3/4" 0.049" wall with round corners.
    The threaded aluminum plugs (previous post) are tapped
    into each end of the tube after the tube is cut to length.

    IMG_4572.jpg
    A "foot" is required on each end of the tubes. These are
    made from 5052 aluminum, 0.050" thick.

    IMG_4386.jpg
    Paper Templates were made for each "foot", then plywood
    templates were made. Appropriate size holes were routered
    into the plywood using the form shown.

    IMG_4391.jpg
    Double sided tape was used to temporarily hold the plywood
    template to the aluminum sheet.

    IMG_4415.jpg
    The aluminum is routered as shown, creating the "foot Blank",
    which will later be formed to shape.
    Notice, I added a smooth surface to the router table to
    limit scratching. Simply find the proper speed and feed
    when routering the aluminum to get a nice finished edge.
    Peel the aluminum from the plywood, then break and
    sand the edges as desired.

    IMG_4567.jpg
    A fixture was made to set up the assembly. Hole locations
    were determined, then drilled by placing the entire fixture
    on a drill press. Then AN3-11A bolts are installed.

    IMG_4566.jpg
    Notice the small steel shim located at the end of the
    tube which simulates the tabs for the diagonal wires
    inside the wing.

    IMG_4582.jpg
    Finished Drag Strut.

    Thank you for looking,
    John
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  16. #96
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    Looks pretty nice John! Carry on!!
    Joe

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  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by stknrddr View Post
    Scratch Building Update - Wing Drag Strut Fabrication

    IMG_4585.jpg
    I'm in the process of making the Drag Struts (cross members)
    inside the wing. These are the struts that span from spar to spar.
    The photo above is a finished strut.

    IMG_4567.jpg

    IMG_4582.jpg
    Finished Drag Strut.

    Thank you for looking,
    John
    John,
    You are doing a wonderful job of building your plane. Your workmanship and attention to detail is to be commended. These parts are called compression ribs not drag struts. They are used in compression holding the spars apart. The cross wires hold the spars together and are called drag and anti drag wires depending on the direction that their load is applied.


    Carry on I'm enjoying following your progress.
    N1PA
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  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    John,
    You are doing a wonderful job of building your plane. Your workmanship and attention to detail is to be commended. These parts are called compression ribs not drag struts.
    That's what I would call them, too. But Piper called them "Strut Assemblies--Drag" in drawing 14222 and elsewhere.

    Vic
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  19. #99
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    Project Update - Tail Feathers

    Recent progress on the tail feathers is shown next. The Horizontal and
    Vertical Stabilizers are scratch built, as are the Rudder and Elevators.

    IMG_4809.JPG

    With the fuselage upside down, the tabs for the lower brace wires
    were fabricated and welded into place. I mounted the Horizontal
    Stabilizers and attached the lower brace wires to set the correct
    angle prior to tack welding.

    IMG_4814.jpg

    Using an Oxygen and Acetylene torch, the tabs were heated
    for bending. After heating and beating, Charlie finish
    welded the parts.

    IMG_4816.jpg

    Here's a photo of the TIG welder.

    IMG_4838.jpg

    Here's a photo of tail feathers bolted and braced in place.
    I bought the very nice diagonal brace wires from Javron.
    I still have a little work to do, to finish the tail,
    however this is a milestone that I have been looking
    forward to seeing complete.

    Thank you for looking,
    John
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  20. #100
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stknrddr View Post
    Project Update - Tail Feathers
    IMG_4809.JPG IMG_4814.jpg

    Thank you for looking,
    John
    Be aware that there was an AD issued many years ago which required a part to be added that joined the two tabs together. You should look into this as now would be a good time to update yours.
    N1PA
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  21. #101
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    Be aware that there was an AD issued many years ago which required a part to be added that joined the two tabs together. You should look into this as now would be a good time to update yours.
    Thank you Skywagon8a. I appreciate you mentioning this. I will be sure to add a strap across the pieces.
    john

  22. #102

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    also john, this is something that im sure your aware of, but weld a bushing in where the tailwheel spring bolt goes.
    Last edited by tempdoug; 07-01-2018 at 08:42 PM.
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  23. #103
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    John,
    Here's what I did. I bought the kit that addresses the AD from (I think) Airframe Alaska). The cross piece is one solid piece and the cross tube is a square tube welded between the lower longerons; replacing the round tube. The Tailwheel attach point has a bushing welded in, top and bottom. You sure are making great progress. Looking forward to seeing it again; maybe during Airventure again?
    Marty



    tail wire attach.jpg
    N367PS
    Psalm 36:7 "High and low among men find refuge in the shadow of His wing"
    www.marty2plus2.com
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  24. #104
    stknrddr's Avatar
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    The Tailwheel attach point has a bushing welded in, top and bottom.
    Thanks Marty. Yes, the bushing for the tail spring bolt still needs to be welded in. I'm aware of that one.
    See you when you get to Wisconsin.
    john

  25. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marty57 View Post
    The cross piece is one solid piece and the cross tube is a square tube welded between the lower longerons; replacing the round tube. The Tailwheel attach point has a bushing welded in, top and bottom.
    Yep, I agree on the square tube for the tailwheel bolt bushing. We did that on a Skybolt and a Hatz that I helped build, and I think it's a much stouter setup than the round tube.
    Joe


  26. #106

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    Quote Originally Posted by jnorris View Post
    Yep, I agree on the square tube for the tailwheel bolt bushing. We did that on a Skybolt and a Hatz that I helped build, and I think it's a much stouter setup than the round tube.
    But, thats a lot of welding back there? isnt it? In one spot.

  27. #107

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    Hi John,
    I had a great time at your Boot camp last weekend, I was thinking after the day of which build was yours and had it right, I like the fact you place allot of merit on making tools and fixtures.
    Great build you have going.

    Regards,
    CharlieN
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  28. #108
    stknrddr's Avatar
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    Project Update -

    The following are some of the latest areas I have been making
    progress on with my scratch building project:

    TRIM CONTROL
    IMG_7005.jpg
    I'm going with a trim tab. The trim tab is literally
    built in place in the elevator, then cut away. I'll use
    a piano hinge however I hope to attach the hinge
    on the vertical surfaces of the tab and elevator
    using pull rivets, and this will be done after
    covering this surfaces.

    IMG_7001.jpg
    I have the trim control handle roughed out as shown.
    The handle needs to be cut shorter, then a bolt needs
    to be welded to it to receive a phenolic knob.
    A push-pull control cable is attached to the handle
    and to the tab at the elevator. A bolt gets welded to
    the pivot on the handle, through a steel bushing welded
    to the fuselage with an oilite bearing pressed into the
    steel bushing. Appropriate washers will be used for
    friction surfaces, and a castle nut will be used to tension
    the bolt for proper friction.

    IMG_7004.JPG
    Here's a photo of the push pull control cable running
    along the fuselage. It seems that running the cable
    inside the fuselage stringer may work well.

    BAGGAGE DOOR FRAME
    IMG_7008.jpg
    Baggage Compartment Door Frame located
    on right side. It's about 10" tall x about 16" long.
    I wonder if it's big enough?

    IMG_6771.jpg
    I bent up some 0.020" steel into c-channel shapes
    for the top and sides. I tried to paint a little primer
    inside the channel and on the fuselage tubes
    prior to welding in place. The bottom frame piece is a
    piece of steel completely folded over itself, with a
    generous radius on the outer edge to match the
    shape of the stringer. Folding the piece over with the
    radius makes it very stiff. I'll use a piano hinge along
    the bottom to hold the baggage door in place.
    I'm using aluminum hat shape material for the
    stringers on the sides of the fuselage. I may simply
    epoxy them into place to omit the need to weld tabs
    on, but that is yet to be determined.

    IMG_6999.jpg
    A better idea of the size of the baggage door.
    IMG_1771.JPG
    When looking through my photos recently, I came
    across this one I took during New Holstein 2013.
    I thought folks may like it...

    Thank you for looking, John
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  29. #109

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    Better see if a box of “Grain Belt” will fit in there before cover. “Castle Danger” and “Bent Paddle” as well. You never know...
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