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PA12 and 3" forward gear on 180 HP

Colorguns

PATRON
Bloomfield NY
1) is there anyone out there that has put this on their PA12? Certified?
2) How is the performance? Good or Bad
3) Was it done with a 337 or other?
4) any additional info that you might have about this good or bad.

Looking to balance out move CG back besides weight in tail or other option when flying empty.

Thanks

Doug
 
What does the STC for installing the PA18 gear on the PA12 say? A ot of people like the short engine mount from the Cross Wind STOL STC.
 
What does the STC for installing the PA18 gear on the PA12 say? A ot of people like the short engine mount from the Cross Wind STOL STC.

I have the 18 gear on 12 with 3" extended so I have to look at that but then there is the 3" forward that I am asking about. Any approvals out there for the 3" forward?
 
I have the 18 gear on 12 with 3" extended so I have to look at that but then there is the 3" forward that I am asking about. Any approvals out there for the 3" forward?

that will do the opposite of what you want.... you'd be moving the weight of the tires forward, hence moving EW CG forward more.....

other than on the ground
 
Yes on the ground it will move the weight to the rear. In the air should not be a factor, from the info I have come up with.


Pretty simple question!
They are doing it in the PA18 What issues are they seeing and any one doing it in the 12?
Anyone do it in the 12 and what issues? Experimental or Certified
 
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I think mike is correct it will make you more nose heavy in the air. Not sure how much or how it will effect handling but I have not heard of it being a problem. It should add weight to the tail good/bad depending on what you want. In your case it should help.
DENNY
 
You tend to run out of down force on the tail as you slow and transition to the flare. This can be overcome (somewhat) by carrying more power into the flare. Moving the gear forward does nothing but add more weight forward. The nose heavy PA12 needs a bigger tail...maybe someone here can say what the square tail feathers did for them....I would go that route rather then changing the gear angle....
 
Thanks all, some times it is hard to understand and you have to see, feel ,touch. Starting to get it.


Some might think I am chasing the wreck. No I am not. As Glenn said snow is for skies, even powder will get you. I see and feel issues that I learn over the last 11 months and 200 hours and trying to see if there is another way to adjust these issues with the nose heavy feeling and they have done that on other planes but there appears to be different issue that are not in the 18 that are in the 12. Change one thing and it changes another. More weight in the ext baggage or the tail will give the action needed, as well as make the plane fly right and have adjustment for the flying at hand. Changing gear in the 12 might be good but then it changes other items to not be the benefit one is looking for. Action Reaction, have to weigh them all out.

Still not hearing from flyers that have put the 3X3 gear on the PA12, Maybe there is none out there? So we cant get first hand knowledge of the effect on their plane for some type of comparison.

THANKS ALL!
 
Others have said this, but maybe to help pull it together - - -

In flight: Moving the wheels forward will move the empty CG forward in reference to the certification datum. This will affect the flying qualities, i.e. make it a little more nose heavy.

On the ground: Moving the wheels forward will put a greater percentage of the airplane's weight on the tailwheel. It does not affect the CG of the airplane any differently than above, however the wheels will be further forward of the CG, thus making it more tailwheel-heavy on the ground.
 
If you are trying to get weight off the nose than I think the short mount steve mentioned would be the way to go. I think it will require some new metal up front but now would be the time to do it. Big tails are always good. Is you gear on by STC or field Approval. If it is by field approval than look at wording carefully. If it only says PA 18 gear than you should be able to put any PA 18 gear on it (stock, 3inch, or 3x3).
DENNY
 
If you gear on by STC or field Approval. If it is by field approval than look at wording carefully. If it only says PA 18 gear than you should be able to put any PA 18 gear on it (stock, 3inch, or 3x3).
DENNY
Be careful of the wording. If it says "PA-18 gear", It doesn't mean Denny's 3" PA-18 gear or Bob's PA-18 3x3 gear. It means Piper's PA-18 gear. And Piper only made one size and shape of gear for a PA-18. Any other combination/make is NOT PA-18 gear even if it is designed and approved to go on a PA-18.
 
Doug I know you already have a short engine mount because you have the crosswinds 180hp 'full kit', I can't remember if it has a lightweight starter, if not that's a place to start lightening up the front
 
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