• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

PA-12 Operating Specifications Info

If you run them into a single both valve Car 4A says the tanks need to be interconnected (crossover line) This can be a problem with sidehills unless you put a on/off valve in the crossover. I would keep them separate or do as MT12 with a Left, Right, Off valve. Nothing wrong with a both valve just has a few more issues noted above.
DENNY
 
Every stock PA-12 I have seen has a header tank right forward and above the front fuel valve on the original fuel system. I would not fly a -12 without a header tank, but their have been some field approved header-less fuel systems. That plane sounds dangerous, I would not fly something with that much fuel starvation. This is the first time I have heard of such a situation in a PA-12, but if you have no header tank that explains it.
 
I agree that we need a header or front outlets- I'm not defending the current setup- it IS dangerous! I'll post pics of the drawing used for the fuel system installation- either it doesn't show a header or I'm missing something big time. Scooter, or some of you with experience, where is the header plumbed in? I've seen them in the vent line from the gascolator with a 3/8 or 1/2 line out the bottom and a 1/4 line out the top to complete the vent system. This system makes sense, but it's a little different than the -18 method of plumbing headers, so is there a better way? Gordon, I agree it seems like it takes way too long to restart- every other plane I've run a tank dry in has restarted almost instantly upon switching tanks. I just attributed the difference to the fuel being already at the selector and only had to travel a foot or two versus coming all the way from the tank and refilling the lines in this situation. Still seems long though, I agree. It's only done it to me twice and restarted pretty quickly after pulling the nose up, but I've received reports of up to a minute- might be an exaggeration... Thanks for all the thoughts and help so far guys.
 
I'm sure there are photos on MCS Mike's picassa photo gallery. Think it's forward of the front valve & clamped on the diagonal tube.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Gordon, I agree it seems like it takes way too long to restart- every other plane I've run a tank dry in has restarted almost instantly upon switching tanks. I just attributed the difference to the fuel being already at the selector and only had to travel a foot or two versus coming all the way from the tank and refilling the lines in this situation. Still seems long though, I agree. It's only done it to me twice and restarted pretty quickly after pulling the nose up, but I've received reports of up to a minute- might be an exaggeration... Thanks for all the thoughts and help so far guys.
When the engine is quiet it will always seem like a long time before it starts again. For some people it will seem longer than others. On the other hand IF there is a slight hump or rise in the fuel line anywhere, this can be as little as 1/2", when the line runs out of fuel it will trap air which will stop the fuel from flowing unless there is a high head pressure. I had a T-craft with a wing tank which had a slight rise in the fuel line after the shutoff valve before it went down the door post. When the valve was turned on, the fuel would not flow until I lifted that wing and skidded the plane to push that air bubble through to the main tank. The fuel would not push the air bubble without my assistance.

IF the line coming out of your tank rises just a little above the tank outlet before heading down, that could stop the flow from starting back up.
 
Charly Center is a pretty good resource for PA-12 fuel system questions. Maybe he's changed his mind but when he built the fuel system that's in Scooter's -12 he used two headers.

Have you tried ram tubes on your fuel caps?
 
Charly Center is a pretty good resource for PA-12 fuel system questions. Maybe he's changed his mind but when he built the fuel system that's in Scooter's -12 he used two headers.

Have you tried ram tubes on your fuel caps?
FYI 53M has 61 gallon tanks & I have flown with maneuvering to land with 4 gallons or less. SB is correct, 2 header tanks, one is under dash on firewall.
84e0e65c844f980801ff0e9798b826d1.jpg


Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
just add front outlets 3/8" line... no header tanks, header tank was optional from the factory "if installed" as listed in the parts book
 
My 46 PA-12 has no header tanks but I do have front outlets. I have a Dakota cub fuel selector valve and if I run a tank dry it takes just a few seconds to restart after switching tanks. I've had no issues with the engine stopping or stuttering while low on fuel at unusual attitudes. Just add front outlets and forget the header tanks, that's a lot of extra unneeded weight.
 
Although the following is on my Experimental PA11 I’m asking opinions and advice. I have 2 - 18 gallon tanks. Plumbed left side to Left selector on valve, right tank to Right selector, and there will be a header between the valve and gascolator. I do have a drain behind the back seat for the right tank. There is an up and down bend going from the right tank under the panel across to the selector valve. See any ?
0B955AEA-8CE8-44CF-9E08-359F5C91CFA4.jpg41369C1D-08F3-4D5D-A972-BA2455BDAFD2.jpgFD3B1002-7F77-4BC6-BB9C-25BA8BE34F1B.jpg9C05CEB5-0774-4F19-A56C-07646F2B0E72.jpg2BD9DF5E-AF19-4B13-AA94-EB55BFA493D1.jpg
The last pic shows where it tees down to a drain behind the back seat. As you can see I have not mounted the header yet
 

Attachments

  • 41369C1D-08F3-4D5D-A972-BA2455BDAFD2.jpg
    41369C1D-08F3-4D5D-A972-BA2455BDAFD2.jpg
    62.7 KB · Views: 131
  • 0B955AEA-8CE8-44CF-9E08-359F5C91CFA4.jpg
    0B955AEA-8CE8-44CF-9E08-359F5C91CFA4.jpg
    58.1 KB · Views: 130
  • FD3B1002-7F77-4BC6-BB9C-25BA8BE34F1B.jpg
    FD3B1002-7F77-4BC6-BB9C-25BA8BE34F1B.jpg
    70.5 KB · Views: 111
  • 9C05CEB5-0774-4F19-A56C-07646F2B0E72.jpg
    9C05CEB5-0774-4F19-A56C-07646F2B0E72.jpg
    55.7 KB · Views: 122
  • 2BD9DF5E-AF19-4B13-AA94-EB55BFA493D1.jpg
    2BD9DF5E-AF19-4B13-AA94-EB55BFA493D1.jpg
    45.7 KB · Views: 120
Why will there be a header between the valve and the gascolator? The purpose of the valve is to stop the flow of fuel to the engine. If there is a tank there you would not be able to stop flowing fuel on the fire.

You seem to have a feed from both front and back of both wing tanks. Why do you think that you want to install a header? Do you anticipate an unusual attitude in which the fuel will not flow without the header?
 
Why will there be a header between the valve and the gascolator? The purpose of the valve is to stop the flow of fuel to the engine. If there is a tank there you would not be able to stop flowing fuel on the fire.

You seem to have a feed from both front and back of both wing tanks. Why do you think that you want to install a header? Do you anticipate an unusual attitude in which the fuel will not flow without the header?

I do, also what I have is a project I bought from someone else and I’m trying to put the puzzle together:) I think the aft line from the right tank should run behind the back above headliner and around to the selector so it goes downhill? Right now it is connected to the front line with a tee near the front side of the door. The header tank came with the project and had been modified with a shutoff valve. Selector valve is left, right, off style. No documentation other than a hand written builders log from 1998 stating “fuel lines installed” no other notes or diagrams. I may just re-do this portion.
 
Here's a link to Dakota Cub's pdf, on their suggested fuel line routing. Works great, tho no need to plumb the fuel guages into the lines, they can be isolated.

http://dakotacub.com/images/stories/Support/Fuel Line Attachment Fittings Supplement.pdf

Pictures in post #28 show this on two different planes. In the bottom photo the line from the valve to the gascolator is bent up to get it out of the way, on install it goes direct to the gascolator....no header tanks used or needed
 
That’s how piper did it.... header is optional per parts book
mike, I looked in two different versions of the parts manual for the PA-18 and they both show the header tank as being prior to the fuel shut off valve. The valve feeds directly through the firewall to the gascolator. The fuel valve will shut off the header tank.
Dan says that his is a PA-11. Is that different? It shouldn't be.
 
Looks like if I re-route my right aft Fuel Line behind the headliner and along left side of cabin into the valve I’ll be in good shape that way it will be downhill:) I won’t need the header in this configuration... I don’t have sight gauges....I have sending units. I think tanks were from a Colt. I really didn’t like the right aft line running along the right side, then uphill a little to Tee into the front line. It did tee down to a drain in the bottom of the fuselage. As always, thanks for the help in understanding.....and thanks for the Dakota drawing:)
 
I was pursing this thread and noted a question on usable fuel.
Checked my records on the PA-12 I have .

Feb 7, 1947, ACA-309,Lycoming 0-235-C or CI, No mention of fuel restrictions on card.

Piper Aircraft Corp, Flight manual only stipulates 73 minimum Octane Aviation Gasoline C and 80 minimum Octane for CI engine. Page 1 of 4

Original weight and balance from Piper corporation , 2/10/47 gives /lists 19.5 gal per wing tank, for a total of 39 gal of fuel with 7 lbs. of fuel unusable.

I am surprised that I have all of the old documentation .

Hope this helps someone .
 
Back
Top