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Thread: ADS-B Mandate

  1. #321
    mvivion's Avatar
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    The military has stated that they will not adopt ADS-B either.

    MTV
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  2. #322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    and the airlines are asking for an exemption to the ADSB mandate. GAis getting screwed by them and the big avionics manufactures in my opinion. EAA and AOPA did very little to help, of course their big advertisers are making a lot of money off of it.
    As I understand it, the airlines already got an exemption from the required newer, higher accuracy GPS until 2025, but must install the rest of ADS-B Out by 2020. The stated reason is that certification is needed for each airliner model and variant, volumes are low, and certified units won't be available in time for installation.

    Added: this is another example of FAA certification standards getting in the way of its own objectives. Satellite tracking is another area. Instead of making it easier to certify and upgrade the GPS, the FAA relaxed accuracy and moved the deadline. I was talking with an airline pilot friend and marveling that my Cub had more modern navigation and tracking than many airliners, when he pointed out that it costs nearly $100k to install a GPS in an airliner.

    https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/equipads...ption12555.pdf
    Last edited by sjohnson; 10-30-2017 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Tupo
    Democracy dies in conformity
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  3. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    The military has stated that they will not adopt ADS-B either.

    MTV
    Where’d you hear that?

  4. #324

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    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    Where’d you hear that?
    Navy is in the process of equipping. I believe AF told FAA they would not be in compliance by 1/1/2020


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  5. #325
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    That’s what I was tracking. Working towards but not complete on time for all the services

  6. #326
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    Where’d you hear that?
    That was on one of the national aviation news sites. I don’t think it was a “we’re not going there” thing, but the difficulty and expense of integrating this technology into the avionics in some Aircraft would delay compliance, perhaps substantially.

    MTV

  7. #327
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    That was on one of the national aviation news sites. I don’t think it was a “we’re not going there” thing, but the difficulty and expense of integrating this technology into the avionics in some Aircraft would delay compliance, perhaps substantially.

    MTV
    Yeah, I agree with that. Especially the integrated avionics suites - very difficult.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by mvivion View Post
    ... the difficulty and expense of integrating this technology into the avionics in some Aircraft would delay compliance, perhaps substantially.
    "Difficulty and expense..." -- oh yeah, me too.
    I gotta remember that line for when it's 2020 and I haven't met the mandate.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  9. #329
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    I looked on Garmin's site and it sounds as though the GDL 39, which receives both the 978 and 1090 frequencies, will get an ADS-B out direct from the other airplane. Though it is not refered to as air-to-air online. I thought it had to be rebroadcast by a tower.

    In this case he was about 2000' higher and closer to the ground tower than I was and we both had good radar coverage. So he should have seen me as a Mode C target through a rebroadcast.

    Good to know. The more I use this system the more I like it. Thanks for the replies.

    I got an email from Garmin today saying that they have the GTX 335 transponder with a WAAS GPS on sale for just under $3000 now. That was the price without the GPS. Plus there is the $500 FAA rebate.
    I had another target pop up on my 796 that I can’t explain. Yesterday I was flying east, at a VFR altitude, through a canyon below radar and ADSB coverage. Slightly ahead of me and probably 1000’ below was opposite direction traffic. The canyon here is maybe a mile wide but plenty of room for both of us. I looked at my 796 and there he was behind me now with the gap widening. The target was a black diamond like rebroadcast Mode C traffic looks. No N number associated with it. So I don’t think he had ADSB Out for that reason and also because I didn’t see him on the 796 ahead of me, just when he was abeam and behind me.

    It would seem that the GDL 39 was picking up his transponder directly. A few days earlier I did a software update on the 796 and one of the changes, so it said, was an improvement of ADSB targets. A connection?

    Anybody else seeing this type of target when you know you’re out of both ADSB and radar coverage?
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  10. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    ....The target was a black diamond like rebroadcast Mode C traffic looks. No N number associated with it. So I don’t think he had ADSB Out for that reason and also because I didn’t see him on the 796 ahead of me, just when he was abeam and behind me. ....
    What I do about ADS-B you could out in a thimble (and have room left over),
    but I was just reading up on the Garmin GDL82 and I believe Garmin says it has an "anonymous" mode where it will not show the tail number on other folk's ADS-b "in" display.
    Cessna Skywagon-- accept no substitute!

  11. #331
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    How Levil aviation doing getting a certification.


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  12. #332

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    Quote Originally Posted by hotrod180 View Post
    What I do about ADS-B you could out in a thimble (and have room left over),
    but I was just reading up on the Garmin GDL82 and I believe Garmin says it has an "anonymous" mode where it will not show the tail number on other folk's ADS-b "in" display.
    There is a provision in the TSO for 978-UAT units to broadcast in "anonymous" mode while squawking 1200 (VFR). This would result in no N-number displayed, and no aircraft information. But as soon as you enter a discrete transponder code, it begins transmitting your N-number, ICAO identifier, etc. (just like the 1090-ES units, where "anonymous mode is NOT ever allowed). So it is possible that is what was going on. I think it's more likely that Garmin displayed the wrong symbol when it saw an "anonymous" target, because a "Mode-C only" transponder does not "broadcast" anything - it only "replies" to interrogations by radar. If spinner2 was seeing positional updates for that target that were "fluid" (not jumping from position to position based on a new radar sweep), it was almost certainly ADS-B OUT equipped.
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  13. #333
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    Jim I couldn’t see it long enough to see if it was jumpy. I know what you’re referring to by that. It didn’t show until it was a abeam me and because we were flying opposite directions it didn’t stay on the 796 for long.

    An anonymous UAT seems possible. I saw this same phenonomen once before and I talked to the pilot. He said he had a common Mode C transponder and yet he was on my 796 and I had no ADSB coverage but we both were in radar coverage.

    The GDL 82 is an interesting option. I downloaded the manual and you can install a switch to turn the anonymity on or off at the pilot’s discretion. And it can be on only when you’re squawking 1200. When turned off or squawking an ATC code it displays your N number.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  14. #334
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    Quote Originally Posted by spinner2 View Post
    Jim I couldn’t see it long enough to see if it was jumpy. I know what you’re referring to by that. It didn’t show until it was a abeam me and because we were flying opposite directions it didn’t stay on the 796 for long.
    Just an uneducated guess, the other traffic's antenna was mounted on it's belly so your airplane didn't see the signal until he was passing you.
    N1PA
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  15. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Just an uneducated guess, the other traffic's antenna was mounted on it's belly so your airplane didn't see the signal until he was passing you.
    Could be. The ADSB Out uses a blade type transponder antenna and it should be mounted on the bottom side. The plane looked like a Husky/Cub from the brief look I got. A blue and white one on skis. My engine and his engine could well have been blocking the signal. My GDL39 is mounted above the panel.

    He he was below me and not offset to the side by much.

    However it it worked I remain impressed with the technology and system. Even living in an area with somewhat spotty coverage. I’ve wondered why the ADSB towers are all placed in valleys instead of the tops of mountains? Most of the radar installations are up high. Missoula being the only exception I can think of. All of the ADSB towers are down at airports or close to them.
    "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." Wyatt Earp

  16. #336
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    ADSB towers being in the valleys means that they can more easily see the belly mounted antennas.
    N1PA

  17. #337
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    The next add-on will be a splitter and top mounted “diversity” antenna for coverage by satellite in very scarcely occupied areas....thanks to MH370..... there are quite a few satellites (Iridium) scheduled for launch with an add-on ads-b system aboard....this will also help eliminate any blindness due to shadowing...
    Last edited by fobjob; 02-14-2018 at 03:04 PM.

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