How to buy a project?

Hi,
Local seller has a fuselage for sale: it comes from a 135 but has been repaired and modified (front cross members) and reinforced(plates over a two clusters up front). While he operates his planes under restricted, I'd like to restore to standard 150 upgrade. Wings come from the same plane, so I presume adding ribs, missing are flaps and ailerons: do they differ between the 135 and 150HP?

Would that fuselage still qualify as standard? If not, Who would have to approve the modifications?Are they legal without STC under Standard/ Restricted or none?
Does adding ribs to the wing require STC?
How about adding a different engine mount (HP upgrade)?


I thought the project was overkill to be reasonably transformed into a 150 cub.
What's your opinion?


Xargos

Xargos,

From what I read I'm just going to say what I think... right or wrong:

I'd find out who owns the airplane and take a good, long look at the logs, forms 337, STCs, etc., in the presence of the airplane. If you don't have enough technical ability to analyze the airplane, then hire someone who does. It will be money well spent.

It sounds like someone has been robbing parts from the airplane, as though they determined it was not worth fixing. Many of the wing parts, including ribs, are common to both types of Super Cub. I believe the wings are the same for each type, but I'm not certain. There may be some differences in (or relating to) the flaps, etc.

I don't know if the fuselage is standard or not. I'm suspecting not. There are many approved repair procedures and STCs for fuselages; And repairs made around tube clusters, and cross braces, and so forth are also approved procedures, either by 337, STC, field approval, or so on. Talk with an aircraft mechanic who holds an IA (inspection authorization certificate) about the approvals and who is responsible for approving what. Generally, the repairs and modifications of which you speak are not legal without a 337, STC, or field approval. The airplane is in the restricted category for a reason, and the log books will say why. A restricted category certification does not denigrate the airplane; But, sometimes the road to a standard category airplane from a restricted category airplane is paved with money.

Changing rib count, motor mount, and engine will all require forms 337. The mount and engine may each require an STC also.

Unless this airplane is in much better condition than I'm visualizing, I'd think long & hard before buying it. If you intend to move ahead with it you'd better get an A&P mechanic or an AI to look at it first.

I too started out wanting to rebuild a plane...wanted a certified airplane. Many on this site changed my thinking to experimental and I am very happy that they did. Your post reminds me of my earlier pursuits. I am much happier with the experimental....all the parts are new and there is no question what I will have when all is said and done.

I know this isn't exactly what you were asking but offering it anyway.

Good luck!

cafi

cafi19 said:

I am much happier with the experimental....all the parts are new
Good luck!

cafi

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So did you ditch the multi-year wing rebuild project that has been Pierce's Hanger?

Heck no....but we are buying lots of new parts for things that we maybe didn't need to....so they will be close to new. Everything else is though...and I know what I have. Plus....when the wings are built they will be under the supervision of the best mechanic I know (as is all the part orders for the wings).

cafi

cafi19 said:

Heck no....but we are buying lots of new parts for things that we maybe didn't need to....so they will be close to new. Everything else is though...and I know what I have. Plus....when the wings are built they will be under the supervision of the best mechanic I know (as is all the part orders for the wings).

cafi

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Well you just had me worried I needed to bore scope MY new wings for verifiecation after you'd been there....

I'm curious, you say the seller is selling a fuselage, not an airplane? Big difference. Don

Aerodon said:

I'm curious, you say the seller is selling a fuselage, not an airplane? Big difference. Don

Click to expand...

Exactly, does it come with an "N" number, serial number on a data plate and a bill of sale? Anything else besides the old welded together tubing?

Here is a rule of thumb. A beautifully restored SC is worth X. An average run of the mill SC is worth 1/2 X. An easy to reassemble all together SC with the paper work all in order is worth 1/4 X. Bits and pieces, incomplete but with good paper work is about 1/8 X plus or minus. I paid $15K for an incomplete project with good paperwork. Sold off about $7K of the original including the wings. Rebuilt the thing over a 10 year period. Ended up with WELL north of $100K into the flying result not counting any of my labor.
You should never start on a project unless you have an unquenchable desire to build the SC of your vision and have the commitment, resolute patience, time and financial resources to drive to the end.
If this is to be a certified plane you must have ownership (registration transferred from the previous owner), bill of sale, Airworthiness Certificate. And it would be nice to have the log books but not strictly necessary. Get the serial number off the fuselage, contact Clyde Smith Jr. and get the original paperwork for the plane. Make sure the fuselage serial number is the one used with the SC you are buying (the fuselage serial # is not the same as the aircraft serial #).
Then, rebuild it slowly making every task a FUN and rewarding experience.

Hi,
Darrel wrote:
>>Here is a rule of thumb. A beautifully restored SC is worth X. An average run of the mill SC is worth 1/2 X. An easy to reassemble all together SC
>>with the paper work all in order is worth 1/4 X. Bits and pieces, incomplete but with good paper work is about 1/8 X plus or minus. I paid $15K for
>>an incomplete project with good paperwork.

Nowadays, beaters are advertised at 65-70 K. Let X be 120K , then an-easy-to-reassemble cub should be 30K, I'm yet to see that.
In fact there's a j3 project on BS for 24K...

The fuselage I was looking at comes with paperwork and there's a pair of damaged wings along with it, but considering the amount of parts it would take to restore the whole airplane,the "mods" that need to be straightened out I'll pass. For someone else , who has 10 different cubs disassembled for parts, this would be an easy project, but as in this example, even the towing outfit was not interested.

Now,
Back to search ...

I think that is a wise decision. Possibly start from scratch, either experimental or buy paperwork & build certified all new.

"You should never start on a project unless you have an unquenchable desire to build the SC of your vision and have the commitment, resolute patience, time and financial resources to drive to the end."

Bout sums it up.

I know of no other experimental aircraft blood line that has so many options for parts certified or otherwise. You can get parts from Cub Crafters, Univair, Javron, Back Country cub, Nick Smith, D&E Aircraft, Alaska Airframes just to name a few. Purchased part from all of them during my build not to mention another 10 independent parts builders.

Wow, good post Darrel Starr. Seriously, that is an excellent way to look at it all.

Bill