Missing plane in Wyoming

[Marty57]

Hi guys,
I have a good friend who's plane went down some time yesterday, no word since 2 pm Sunday. He went missing during a snow storm in Wyoming. Gordon was flying a 172, white with a kind of Union Jack tail, flying back to California after tending to his elderly father. I'm not sure of any other details just this report from his wife via another friend. No word at all on any other details. Anybody up that way that knows anything about this his friends and family sure would apriciate the info. Gordon' s one of those old school instructors, A & P, I A and great guy. Prayers sure would be apriciated also.

Thanks guys,
Marty57

[RanchPilot]

Haven't seen anything on the news here. Any idea what part of Wyoming? SPOT track, etc.? Happy to help look here in southwest Wyo. if we can.

[Marty57]

I do have a better location. The aircraft's Elt signal was picked up yesterday about 100 miles from Laramie, his destination. No idea if he had the new 406 or just the older frequency. He also had a personal ELT but nothing from that. Not sure of his rout but that would likely be south west of Laramie maybe. What's the terrain in that area like?

Thanks,
Marty57

[Marty57]

If any one has any contacts with CAP sure would like to know if they are searching yet. What's the weather like in the Laramie area?
thanks,
Marty57

[irishfield]

Hope it turns out well Marty!!

[Clay Hammond]

METAR text: KLAR 050153Z AUTO 30011KT 10SM FEW050 M10/M14 A3008 RMK AO2 SLP224 T11001144 $
Conditions at: KLAR (LARAMIE , WY, US) observed 0153 UTC 05 March 2013
Temperature: -10.0°C (14°F)
Dewpoint: -14.4°C (6°F) [RH = 70%]
Pressure (altimeter): 30.08 inches Hg (1018.7 mb)
[Sea-level pressure: 1022.4 mb]
Winds: from the WNW (300 degrees) at 13 MPH (11 knots; 5.7 m/s)
Visibility: 10 or more miles (16+ km)
Ceiling: at least 12,000 feet AGL
Clouds: few clouds at 5000 feet AGL

TAF:


Forecast for: KLAR (LARAMIE , WY, US)

Text: KLAR 042339Z 0500/0524 32024G32KT P6SM SCT050
Forecast period: 0000 to 0200 UTC 05 March 2013
Forecast type: FROM: standard forecast or significant change
Winds: from the NW (320 degrees) at 28 MPH (24 knots; 12.5 m/s)
gusting to 37 MPH (32 knots; 16.6 m/s)
Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)
Clouds: scattered clouds at 5000 feet AGL
Weather: no significant weather forecast for this period

Text: FM050200 30015KT P6SM SKC
Forecast period: 0200 to 1000 UTC 05 March 2013
Forecast type: FROM: standard forecast or significant change
Winds: from the WNW (300 degrees) at 17 MPH (15 knots; 7.8 m/s)
Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)
Clouds: clear skies
Weather: no significant weather forecast for this period

Text: FM051000 23008KT P6SM SKC
Forecast period: 1000 to 1900 UTC 05 March 2013
Forecast type: FROM: standard forecast or significant change
Winds: from the SW (230 degrees) at 9 MPH (8 knots; 4.2 m/s)
Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)
Clouds: clear skies
Weather: no significant weather forecast for this period

Text: FM051900 23014G24KT P6SM SKC
Forecast period: 1900 UTC 05 March 2013 to 0000 UTC 06 March 2013
Forecast type: FROM: standard forecast or significant change
Winds: from the SW (230 degrees) at 16 MPH (14 knots; 7.3 m/s)
gusting to 28 MPH (24 knots; 12.5 m/s)
Visibility: 6 or more miles (10+ km)
Clouds: clear skies
Weather: no significant weather forecast for this period

[Ruffair]

Marty57,
West of LAR is fairly flat, but ground level is around 7000' plus, with rising ground all quads. Look at interstate 80 west bound from LAR, a most
likely route of any SEL pilot westbound.

Good Luck
Kem

Talked to a friend of a friend who spoke with Dispatch at Southwest, they have a denver to portland and a denver
to seattle flight going tonight that go over that general area west of larimie and they will check for elt's, and pass any
info on to ATC.

[Marty57]

Guys,
Thanks so much. Knowing that the big iron will be listening tonight is so very comforting. I can't say enough for that help. Also, thanks for terrain and weather info, that also is helpful. I sure appreciate this communities concern for a fellow pilot. We are still hopeful and still praying.

Thanks,
Marty

[RanchPilot]

Friend of a friend is a honcho in CAP. Will check tomorrow morning to see if they're on it.

100 miles south west of Laramie could potentially put him in some pretty rugged terrain. Elk Mountain is located along I-80 in that stretch, and is notorious for high winds and tough weather. On the other hand, there's a lot of flat ground out there too, out on the plains between Laramie and Rawlins.

Hoping for the best. He's in our thoughts.

[Marty57]

Thanks RanchPilot; let me know if you hear anything.
Marty57

[RanchPilot]

They're on it, Marty. It's some rugged country around Saratoga, but the ground crews in that area are tough rural Wyoming folks who are very experienced in working in that type of terrain.

http://trib.com/news/state-and-regio...b629c3b25.html

He will continue to be in our thoughts and prayers.

[RanchPilot]

Here's a link to a map of the Pennock Mountain area, just south of Elk Mountain. You can toggle over to satellite view to see the topography.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps?city=Pe...ntain&state=WY

[eskflyer]

in our thoughts and prayers.

[Marty57]

I looked at the map link; pretty tough area. Glad to see they are looking. There are some clear areas; can only hope and pray he put down knowing he was trapped in the storm and could not fly out. Tough to do in a 172 but maybe .........

Thanks guys,
Marty57

[Marty57]

Hi guys,
Thanks for the help and prayers. Sad to say that my friend Gordon did not survive this event. It looks like he got the aircraft down safely in the storm but was found outside the aircraft and he had passed. Very cold through the the night but not sure of specifics. Either way, we learn from what is put before us and hopefully become better pilots in the process. My friend's wife was so touched by the efforts I told her were going on by "strangers"; I told her there aren't any strangers among pilots in need. Peace and blessings to all tonight.

Marty57

[12 Geezer]

Marty, I'm sorry for the sad news. Words are insufficient - -

[RanchPilot]

Very sorry for your loss Marty.

[eskflyer]

God bless each and everyone. Thoughts and prayers are with the loved ones and friends.

[qsmx440]

Marty so sad.

[Scouter]

Marty

No attempt here to judge, but was the flight at night, ifr, in the mountains with single engine Skyhawk?
Sincere condolenses for your loss

Jim

[spinner2]

http://m.trib.com/news/state-and-reg...ile_touch=true

Very sorry to hear about your loss.

Here's a little more of the story:

[aktango58]

Marty,

Hearts and prayers from here for all...

[Ruffair]

Marty,

Real sorry for you and the family's loss.

Kem

[Dave Calkins]

Marty, Prayers for this loss. Dave

[8GCBC]

March NTSB query, no preliminary yet:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/Ac...th=3&year=2013

Sad news.

[Marty57]

Thanks guys. Scouter, I understand the intent of your question; we all can learn from something like this. The flight was day VFR along a rout the pilot had flown many times but did not usually take him over this range. We aren't sure how or why the weather caught the flight the way it did. The plane was very well equipped and maintained; and the pilot (CFI, II) very well trained and experienced. We understand he was able to put the plane down however he did not survive the arrival of rescue crews some 36 hours latter; temperatures were near zero; Gordon however he had a substantial survival pack with him. So all in all everything seemed to be done correctly from a planning perspective. Something is missing; hopefully we will be able to figure out both the how and why this happened for some closure.

Marty57

[Anne]

My condolences to Gordon's friends and family.

Anne.

[cafi19]

Sorry to hear about this. Our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends.

Sad he wasn't found in time. Sure speaks volumes for checking out your survival gear when you are flying in remote areas. It can take days to be located with weather and terrain....even in the lower 48.

cafi

[barbwire]

So much sad news this week. Prayers and condolences to the family.

[wronghand]

So sorry Marty.

[Bill Rusk]

Marty

My prayers are with you and his family. God Bless you.

Bill

[SuperUrsus]

RIP to the pilot and condolences to his family and friends. It can be so unforgiving out there.

[Bill Ingerson]

I always keep a tent and sleeping bag in my plane, and of course the spot is always turned on. The spot will leave a trail they can follow and find you within 25 feet. It sounds like he was ready for anything that could come up. He got it on the ground and was able to get under the wing, Maybe the chill factor was just to much for that long period of time he was there. Get a Spot or spider track system at least they know where your at and will get there quicker.
Im sure sorry for the loss of your friend.

Bill

[Paul Heinrich]

When I had my auto accident in '08, if EMT didn't get to me within minutes I wouldn't have survived because I was going into shock.

I don't know if your friend had any injuries from the landing, but, if he did, survival gear sometimes just isn't enough.

Sorry for your loss.

[AK-HUNT]

Get a Spot or spider track system at least they know where your at and will get there quicker.

There are several threads dedicated to this subject already, so I apologize in advance. Its extremely frustrating to see pilots OR THEIR PASSENGERS suffer because they choose not to install a simple beacon (~ $585 now too for some models) that could save lives because they read somewhere that SPOT/spider are better or even as good as.......Posts like this.

If you have a 406 ELT already and you choose to augment it with a spot/spider, you have a point, Bill. Marginally........

As posted many times before, if the two signals are transmitted at the same time, you will likely have rescuers airborne much faster with the 406. Just the way the infrastructure is set up.

---As for your 25' claim???? The SPOT beacon drops a point every 10 minutes, correct? So....If you crash .01 second after the point drops, it will be outside 25' unless you are in a vertical dive 10' agl........ It does give a starting point.......if you were dumb enough not to install a 406 or it wasn't triggered or rendered inoperable. Then yeah, maybe, I guess.

But not for a substantial amount of time when: someone decides to start looking, then accesses the account, then pushes data to appropriate agency, then they confirm an emergency exists, then they task assets. And 25'?????? bs

I carry a SPOT to augment my 406. I like it though I know spidertracks is more robust/capable. But they are no comparison to a 406 ELT in an aircraft. I WILL NOT fly with my kids without a 406 ELT. I would still fly with my kids if I forget the SPOT. I work in SAR and base this off of personal experience/training/reading/research and a comprehension of the SARSAT system.

Your claims are incorrect.
"they" will not get there quicker
"they" will not find you within 25'

I'm not up for a debate. Its fact. No offense intended.

[Marty57]

Paul,
I suspect you might be right on target. We know he got the plane down (they recovered all his personal effects from the plane so it was intact; waiting on pictures) but a head injury from a rough landing may have only given him time to get out of the plane and maybe even move around some before the effects incapacitated him. We should have that kind of answer soon. I know analyzing something like this may seem inappropriate but I think it is necessary. Gordon was assigned to a crash investigation team while in the Air Force so he would understand the importance of looking at this from a learning perspective. Trust me, my kids are asking me all sorts of questions with me building a plane to some day fly; I want to be a better pilot from this if I can. If there is something to learn from this tragedy that may keep one of us here from suffering the same loss than that is some consolation against the larger loss. Very well put Paul, thanks.

Marty57

[Marty57]

Ak-Hunt,
No apology necessary. Gordon did have exactly what you are advocating. We think the signal received was from his ELT rather than his personal beacon indicating the possibility of injuries or shock preventing it's use; not sure if it was a SPOT or other PLB type debvice. I will definitely have both the 406 ELT and a PLB when I fly; something I have learned from this site. In this case, the rescuers knew his location and did not give up the search; working through the night. The helicopter and CAP dispatched initially were grounded because of the severe weather. When the helicopter was able to fly it located the site fairly early Tuesday and dropped a medic to the plane. The helicopter than directed the ground crew who were close to the site. The rescuers (amazing team by the way) were working through thicker trees and deeper snow as they progressed up to the site. The beacon made this recovery possible in the shortest time frame under the conditions. Weeks or months of waiting against hope would have been much worse for sure. Again, this is good that we can all learn and determine our own preference to use the existing technology.

Marty57

[Bill Ingerson]

Hello AK-Hunt

I agree with you on the 406 It sends a good signal out and will be picked up in time. Guess my point on the Spot or Spider Track is that it will keep sending out a signal every 10 minutes weather the plane is flying or landed. It would seem to me that if the plane has not moved in 30 min. that would be a good place to look. I know mine is very accurate, I can tell what lane I am driving in or what parking spot Im in. They don't need anyone to turn it on, like a personel locator, sat phone ect.. I would never recomend anyone use one inplace of a 406 or one like it. A Spot would be a back up, just food for thought.

[aktango58]

Well, You are wrong AK-Hunt.

fifteen minutes from pushing my spot 911 the troopers here in alaska initiated a search... 15 minutes. With the 911 feature it is very quick.

I heard that the 182 in Rainey pass had a 406 but did not send a signal, is that true? if so your argument does not hold.

Having both is a great feature, no doubt. But just because you have both does not mean that you will be saved, even when they know where you are, they have to get to you!

[8GCBC]

406 is multinational, global coverage, and is monitored by 1000s of agencies around the world. But it lacks the track information that SPOT has which is very effective to repiece crash, but costs money for band width. Very few places allow voyaging without 406, but SPOT is optional and sometimes forgotten.