For Authorized Inspectors----What is the consensus for paperwork on Ceconite installation on a PA-18? Do you consider Ceconite 101 to be a major repair and Ceconite 102 to be a major alteration?
For Authorized Inspectors----What is the consensus for paperwork on Ceconite installation on a PA-18? Do you consider Ceconite 101 to be a major repair and Ceconite 102 to be a major alteration?
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Any change from the factory process is an alteration. Depending on what year the cub is and if it was originally cotton and dope or ceconite and dope. Assuming your are finishing the Ceconite with dope I can't answer the 102 vs 101 because I am not sure if any factory built cubs had 101 on them.
If you are following piper drawings for fabric installation and using the same materials it's repair. If it was 102 and you put 101 on then it's an alteration. If it's a different than original OR an STC'd system you're using then it's an alteration.
Changing fabric from 102 to 101 and still using the exact process the factory did is just as much an alteration as changing from a 135 to a 150 hp engine. If it's not the same as built per that S/N aircraft when it left the factory it's an alteration.
Are you going over old log books or are you going to be filling out log books?
Jason
I'm going to be filling out log books. Mine was a 60 model, so it originally came with Cotton. I think Piper used 101 on their 70's Cubs. To further muddy the Waters, If there already was a 337 for Ceconite 20 yrs ago, and you are putting the same system back on, is it now a Major Repair or still a major alteration.
Just Curious, I'm going the major Alteration route.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
The ceconite fabric weight that Piper used in the 70's is inconsequential since your plane came with cotton. If you fill out the the 337 as a repair then reference the previous 337 where it was done as an alteration from cotton to ceconite and you MUST use the same brand, fabric weight, and dope that was used in the previous cover job to keep it a repair and reference the old manual used for the previous cover job/alteration.
If you switch from Randolph to Superflite dope it's an alteration. If you switch from Ceconite to Superflite fabric it's an alteration. If you switch from 102 to 101 it's an alteration. Only way to keep it as a repair is to replicate exactly what was done the last time and use the same older revision of the procedures manual for reference.
Might as well just put Alteration on the 337 and be sure to reference the latest version of the manual for the process you used. That makes it easy with no questions. I can't think of any benefit trying to go with "repair" over "alteration" both are major items and require a 337. Either one has no effect on the value of the aircraft.
Paper work is the most time consuming part of being an IA, the simpler the better.
Jason
I think you could use any system that Piper(except 7600) was using regardless of what year your cub was built. Most people are using an STC'd process that spells out what your options are. The fabric weight originally was predicated on airspeed, propblast area...
Enjoy your free time Brian, fixing to get busy up there.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
I think that a "major alteration" by definition means a alteration to the aircraft that takes it away from it's original TC design by some approved method. Is any fabric type listed on the TC?, I don't think so but never really looked.
A "major repair" returns the aircraft to it's original airworthy type design by some approved method.
Dispite the year, they are all listed on the same TC. I'd go with repair, but I dought it would be questioned either way.
Ever make your ski trip? Deep powder and good ice here.
No didn't happen. We never had any snow to put skis on.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
There is a Piper Service Letter about putting Ceconite on all their models. Or at least the common ones like the PA-18 and PA-25 (I don't have it handy). That makes it legal even if it came out of the factory with cotton on it. I quote that in the paperwork for a dope and cotton job.
Opinion......
Andrew.
Replacing fabric regardless of what system you use is either a Major repair or Major alteration and requires a 337. I'd figure it's six in one, half dozen in the other what you put on the 337. It's only a repair if returning to previously approved/installed/altered condition.
I am curious, Would it be correct to say that using a factory SB/SI/SL is a repair or alteration ?
its piper SL 608 dated 1972 and it calls out the SNs affected. It says from this # on it left the factory with ceconite and then it's goes over covering with Airtex ceconite envelopes and finishing with a nitrate based cement ( no longer available ) and finishing with dope
Jason
Last edited by jgerard; 03-07-2013 at 12:25 AM.
Yeah, I dug out the SL and read it last night and it's pretty irrelevant to the discussion here.Originally Posted by jgerard
Andrew.
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