Attention go pro users

[aktango58]

Talking with some clients and a ski guide today about Go-Pro cameras and avalanche beacons.

Seems that the NEW go pro cameras are causing interference with avalanche beacons. I don't have either, and don't understand what, when or why, but it is reliable information.

If you are depending on an avalanche beacon to find someone or let someone find you, you might ought to test it around any camera you are using. Also have your partners/rescue folks test around cameras and such.

Cell phones also are doing funny things to beacons when receiving calls.

Again, no dog in the fight, but think this is worthy of mention for you cool folks that use your cubs to greater good

Sport safe all.

[cubflier]

Thanks for posting this information. The way I am reading the problem is that the Gopro is transmitting erroneous signals to a receiver in search mode at close distances. So if you are searching - Turn off your Gopro. As for the buried victim that may have a Gopro running on a helmet and a beacon in transmit mode, there is no effect since the signals transmitted by his Gopro would picked up by the search party at distance (40cm or less) that is irrelevant.

Does anyone have a different take on this?

Again - thanks George for posting this info.

Jerry

[aktango58]

Jerry,

It was quite a bit over my head, with my limited experience, but please check your theory, don't know if it intercepts the signal or distorts it. I was told it had to do with the wifi, and if wifi is off you are ok.

The part that scares me is that if/when help comes that a camera in a pocket can cause real difficulties...

[cubflier]

George,

Here is a link that I found the seems to summarizes the problem pretty good.

http://www.tetongravity.com/blogs/Ho...rs-6497429.htm

I'm not smart enough to have any theories about this but got online right after reading your post last night since the season is well under way and I'm going back up tomorrow probably with the Gopro on.

The bottom line from what I see from the above article is that it only effect the search mode which is a relief since a buried victim is not in the position to reach up and turn anything off. If it did effect the transmit function I would forgo the helmet cam since for the most part a video of a feeble old man stumbling down a mountain is not that cool to watch anyway.

As a side note I can tell you that I did operate my FastFind 210 plb in close proximity to my Tracker 2 (in search mode) and did not have any erroneous signal interference.

Jerry

[cubunltd]

I think we need to get the Myth Busters involved in this......lol

John

[aktango58]

I think we need to get the Myth Busters involved in this......lol

John

We are having services in a couple of days for a friend that did not survive a fall over the weekend; four went down when a cornice collapsed, two medevaced to the hospitals in Juneau and Seattle; lucky none were buried.

We lost two last year in a avalanche

Avalanche beacon reception is not a joke. Though I am not the guy out there, my good friends are, even if there is a 5% issue it is worth knowing ahead of time, because the survival of buried people goes down exponentially with time. Minutes count.

I do wonder what else might cause issues with Peeps? Lots of new electronic devices we carry today...

[cubunltd]

Sorry aktango, certainly didn't mean to offend. Sorry for your friends and I will say a prayer for all of them. I wasn't referring to avalanche beacons, I know how important they are. Once again, sorry.

John

[aktango58]

It is ok John, just a bit sensitive right now...

Thanks for the prayers. Christian, my friend that died, was a fellow pilot. Flew for Era Helicopters. others here may know him.

He was going to teach me to snowboard this year. Hence my learning about Peeps and camera issues.

[8GCBC]

Actually, for me, if Myth Busters got rid of the slapstick comedy it would be worth watching some of the clips.

(not trying to diffuse the serious nature of the thread) Just a thought.

[cubflier]

Before we went up yesterday I did a test of my hero 2 agains my two Tracker DTS ( not Tracker 2 stated earlier ) and here is what I found. The first test I did was with one Tracker in search mode to simulate an out of range scenario. With Wifi enabled the tracker would report random erroneous signals. Some of the distances that the Tracker would read exceeded the Trackers range so if you were real alert you could dismiss the readings as false signals. I then did a test with both Trackers, one in transmit and the other in search. The Tracker in search again picked up random false readings out of range but once you entered the range of the Tracker which is 40m the random false readings were most prevalent between 40m and 25m. The closer I got to the transmitter the less these random false readings occurred. This test was with Wifi enabled and trying to hold the Gopro as far away from the Tracker as my arm would reach. Moving the Gopro closer to the Tracker increased the random false readings and under 15 in separation the interference from the Gopro rendered the searching Tracker worthless. Here's the interesting part. Under 15 in separation between Gopro and Tracker, it did not matter whether you had Wifi enabled as long as the camera was on, your Tracker could not do it's job.

John - Thanks for the clarification. The reason for my interest in the subject is because I have skin in this game. I have had my head shoved in the rocks, drug down a mountain and in a fairly beaten up state had to attempt a search for a buried friend. It's hard to say how I felt at that moment but I definitely did not need to chase any false signals around. My impression of what's being reported about the interference from the newer Wifi enabled Gopro's is true. As for the close range interference without Wifi enabled, I just read my Tracker manual again yesterday morning and it clearly states do not get any electronic device closer than 12" in search mode.

It's all good stuff to know.

Ski Safe,

Jerry

[8GCBC]

For now radio silence during backcountry ski ops is the way to go, until this gets fixed?

[cubflier]

For now radio silence during backcountry ski ops is the way to go, until this gets fixed?

No, that's not what is being said here. It's fine to ski/snow board with electronics running. Run your helmet cams, chest mount Gopro's ( with or without wifi ) all day long. If the worst happens and someone is buried, the people in the search party need to shut off all electronics to include Gopro's while searching as this may impede search efforts.

Jerry

[8GCBC]

What if victim has dirty RF on him? He can't shut it off?

[cubflier]

What if victim has dirty RF on him? He can't shut it off?

He does not need to nor does it matter. Think of it this way. The buried victim has a helmet Gopro that emits an signal with an interference range of 3'. His beacon transmits a signal 40m. The search party will not pick up the interference signal until they are 3' from the victim so no problem on that end. The Gopro's DO NOT interfere with the signal that is transmitted. The beacons, in search mode, can pick up and misinterpret (as in give false distance readings) signals from electronic devices at relatively close distances.

You may want to ready through the link I furnished above and watch the video in that link. It explains it all better than I can.

Jerry

[8GCBC]

Ok, I am looking at worst case scenario. Thanks for guidance! I will re-read, not the first time!

[SJ]

Hey Jerry, I'd sure love to see some video of you guys cuttin' fresh tracks up there!

sj

[aktango58]

Actually, for me, if Myth Busters got rid of the slapstick comedy it would be worth watching some of the clips.

(not trying to diffuse the serious nature of the thread) Just a thought.

I lost my humor... sorry about that.

I might need to find a rock to hide under for a while if I cant take a little rib.... sorry all.

Good stuff Jerry, I will pass it on.

One piece of the puzzle most forget is that in crisis you will not be thinking clearly. When guys are gone and buried you need to have it drilled into your head how to proceed, like turning off your go pro...

Sort of like a stall on short final, if it is not automatic, by the time you thought it out it is too late...

I will try to get some footage for you SJ... pretty incredible what these guys ski up here

[cubunltd]

i'm sorry i made the comment about Myth Busters. i've lost a couple of good friends also and I know how you feel aktango. please foregive my ignorinse. My prayers are with them.

john

[aktango58]

john,

Let me buy you a beer some time and all will be even!

I appreciate your wishes and prayers, I need to lighten up!!!!! You would think I was a sourpus.

Well, we have that fleshed out, now to R&R and read about big guns!

[jprax]

Jerry
We sell both the Trackers and GoPros at the store. Interference is something that is cautioned on them from BCA. This had come up with people having their cell phone too close too. I think if I was worried enough to have the Tracker I would have a avalanche pack. They are getting pretty popular and the success is much more likely that the body recover that most transeiver searches end in. We had a client from Europe rent one last year and then he had video of his riding an avalanche down the mountain. No guarantee but the results have been pretty positive. BCA is is able to be filled with air from a dive shop , ABS needs nitrogen. The design may be better but the Nitrogen is cumbersome and expensive to deal with. I would be careful of the brands that are licensing the technology to use in their packs, we are not sure they know how it all goes together.
As others have said, send video!!
Have a great spring and hope to see you at the Fly In.
Joe

[cubunltd]

Great! I'll hold you to that beer(or 2 or 3). Where bare you located?

[aktango58]

Where????

Why, 18AA. House is about 40' from the edge of the runway.

Surface is hardpacked snow, (ice) over turf. North wind today, er, breeze.

Helicopter traffic anticipated in the next few days, so be aware, they land to the east of the house in the field.

Most all the folks around the helicopters have peeps on and running so they are easy to find

[cubflier]

Jerry
We sell both the Trackers and GoPros at the store. Interference is something that is cautioned on them from BCA. This had come up with people having their cell phone too close too. I think if I was worried enough to have the Tracker I would have a avalanche pack. They are getting pretty popular and the success is much more likely that the body recover that most transeiver searches end in. We had a client from Europe rent one last year and then he had video of his riding an avalanche down the mountain. No guarantee but the results have been pretty positive. BCA is is able to be filled with air from a dive shop , ABS needs nitrogen. The design may be better but the Nitrogen is cumbersome and expensive to deal with. I would be careful of the brands that are licensing the technology to use in their packs, we are not sure they know how it all goes together.
As others have said, send video!!
Have a great spring and hope to see you at the Fly In.
Joe

Joe,

I really have to visit your store when I'm in Valdez this spring. What you say about avalanche packs is true. I see a lot more folks with them now and think they are the new wave. I went with the ABS Vario System. My son also bought one. But the real big deal in my life now is that my wife is back on skis thanks to a great surgeon in California. So it looks like I may get another bag depending on the terrain she can tackle. From the looks of how she skied yesterday I think her old racer form never left and I'll be trying to keep up with her just like I did many years ago. Keeping on track with the Gopro interference thing, when you strap a beacon on your wife and best friend of 35 years and then try to video some of her first turns down the mountain you do want to understand how these devices interact.

SJ - Yesterday was the first time I have had to Gopro out since it has been too dark and cold on earlier trips to do much fiddling with a camera. I have some gopro footage from last year and will see if put something together that's not too boring. I do have this little clip (taken with the real camera)of a new double ended ski area called Yellow Knife that looks like a nice run.

Jerry

[aktango58]

Joe,

Valdez? I would imagine you knew Cristian Cabanilla. He has called Valdez home for a few years.

Airbags... I got a second hand account last night, a skier was watching the cornice fall sunday and watched everyone go down. Five on top, four went down. Two of the four had airbags and deployed, one at least had a helmet. The helmeted one had no injuries but a sore right shoulder, (these guys went down through rocks and chutes). The other I am told slid down on his back, no tumbling and went over everything with the airbag as a cusion. When he hit bottom I am told is when he broke his leg.

Two without airbags- one dead, we have no report why other than he did not look beat up, the other did not have a helmet and suffered head injurys, punctured lung, cracked hip and looked like he had been hit in the face multiple times.

Me thinks that these airbags and helmets are not such a bad idea...

But like peeps and gopro, there is some training with aircraft: be sure to secure the release before entering aircraft, and PREPARE it as soon as possible getting outside of the aircraft.

Sometimes it is the simple steps that catch us.

Jerry, good to hear your wife is back on sticks!

[cubflier]

Me thinks that these airbags and helmets are not such a bad idea...

I agree.

Jerry

[cubunltd]

nevermind, simple question, requires simple answer. I jst didn't have time to look it up