Where To Mount Halon Bottle?

[Steve Pierce]

What's holding the bottle onto the Adel clamps? How can you quickly release the bottle from the clamps?

Anne.

Anne, The mount is a cage with an over center latch holding the bottle. I am not a fan of SJ's installation but he wanted both occupants to have access. Not sure what the "G" load is on that latch but I am paranoid of things flying around the cockpit along with things hanging under the panel. They mount very nicely to the seat leg, out of the way and convenient.

[Anne]

Thanks, Steve. I'm going to look at installing a Halon bottle, maybe on the left side forward, out of the way of the flap handle. And hope that I never need it.

Anne.

[GeeBee]

I shot a 1.2 lb. extinguisher several times on an electrical fire behind the panel in a Super Cub with the door open. Didn't breath a thing nor did Lee in the back. I used short bursts and got it out but had to shake and turn it upside down due to settling and age I guess (at least 10 yrs. old). Seemed like plenty to do what I had to do.

Just one of the reasons why Halon is better than dry chemical. No settling.

[sierra bravo]

Dry chemical agents are corrosive. Halon is not. Another important advantage of the halon products. The best casual source I know for info about airplanes and aviation-appropriate fire extinguishers is H3R's website. They offer articles like these. http://www.h3raviation.com/news_EAA_...isor_Feb08.htm
http://www.h3raviation.com/news_exti..._your_risk.htm
Make good decisions.

[12 Geezer]

Anne, The mount is a cage with an over center latch holding the bottle. I am not a fan of SJ's installation but he wanted both occupants to have access. Not sure what the "G" load is on that latch but I am paranoid of things flying around the cockpit along with things hanging under the panel. They mount very nicely to the seat leg, out of the way and convenient.

Mounting low sounds right to me. Mountings for items installed in the cockpit area are supposed to be stressed to 18 g, per 43.13.

[bigrock]

This is where Steve mounted mine. Easy to find and reach in or out of the plane.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1362197768.443014.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1362197805.752742.jpgImageUploadedByTapatalk1362197832.027235.jpg

[8GCBC]

How did you get the picture from under the dash facing backwards? Timer?

[mike mcs repair]

... Mountings for items installed in the cockpit area are supposed to be stressed to 18 g, per 43.13.

???? you better go reread that stuff!!

[12 Geezer]

???? you better go reread that stuff!!

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...2043.13-2B.pdf

Page 2, column 3, row 3. Any other questions?

[8GCBC]

I guess no more iPADS then...?

[12 Geezer]

I guess no more iPADS then...?

Check out the "forward of occupants" 2 g exception, (first "*")

[8GCBC]

Thanks.. I am studying for an IA this is a good review!

[bigrock]

How did you get the picture from under the dash facing backwards? Timer?

Just extended my arm up front with camera facing back guessed on the aim and pressed button.

[8GCBC]

On my boat I have dislodged fire extinguishers just from them getting caught on foul weather gear! The standard clasps are easy to open and/or break off!

[mike mcs repair]

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...2043.13-2B.pdf

Page 2, column 3, row 3. Any other questions?

ya.... read the next example table.... it's 9.0.... it's INSTALLED EQUIPMENT.... or so is how I have always interpreted it...

and most(ALL??) of the locations were are talking about fall into the "beside" or "in front" of pilot 2.0 range...

[12 Geezer]

ya.... read the next example table.... it's 9.0.... it's INSTALLED EQUIPMENT.... or so is how I have always interpreted it...

and most of the locations were are talking about fall into the "beside" or "in front" of pilot 2.0 range...

i had already read that next example. It is utility category. A fire extinguisher is an "item of mass within the cabin". it needs to be well restrained. Obviously the degree of restraint depends on details of the installation. I would think the 2g fwd exception would apply to the seat base installation.

But 18 g fwd is the general rule. My initial statement was correct, despite that I did not write out all the details.

[mike mcs repair]

... It is utility category. ....

PER YOUR QUOTED CHART! utility and normal category chart are the SAME CHART & numbers.........

[12 Geezer]

My bad on that. But looks like we both missed that each of those first two columns specifies "occupant".

The fact remains, that "items of mass within the cabin" are spec'ed at 18 g fwd, except for the starred exception. Simple and unambiguous. I'll share some good advice I recently received, to "reread that stuff".

[Aviator]

... it's INSTALLED EQUIPMENT....

Not sure you could call an extinguisher latched in a commercial/consumer grade (non-pma'd) cradle "installed equipment" though the cradle itself bolted or clamped to the airframe might be.

[Steve Pierce]

Here is one in a Top Cub.
IMG_7523.JPG

[Aviator]

Here is one in a Top Cub.
IMG_7523.JPG

Great shot, Mr. Pierce, but I'm at a loss as to what those guys were thinking. "Access to emergency equipment or any of its parts required for operation must not be obstructed" (forgot where I read that). I assume all parts of a hand-held extinguisher are considered "required for operation". Here, the seat belt when fastened seems to obstruct it. Or am I missing something, here?

[12 Geezer]

Yes, the meaning of "installed" seems questionable in 43.13 - 2B table 1-1, but the governing FAR, 23.561 paragraph B (3), is clearer. It simply says "items of mass within the cabin, that could injure an occupant . . .", then goes on to specify the same load factors as cited in 43.23-2B, Table 1-1, column 3 - - i.e. 18 g forward.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...F?OpenDocument

[RCharles]

Adding a little humor here , although not very funny actually . The emergency procedure for an in flight in the army L21A manual simply says "BAIL OUT" and includes a picture of the crew leaving the A/C ...Not very comforting to say the least....

[OLDCROWE]

Wrestled with this for quite a bit, never found a location for the mount I liked. Ended up with two old GPS holsters, one zip tied to each front seat leg. Put the halon in one and the PLB in the other, worked really well.

[GeeBee]

Uh, guys......look in the cockpit of any airliner in America and you will find the halon bottle in standard commercial bail clip holder. I think the FAA has pretty much told us how they feel about the issue in the field because these are Part 121 inspected aircraft. I can pretty much guarantee you there is little if any emergency equipment in an airliner cockpit that could withstand 18gs fwd, the fire extinguisher, crash axe and ELT being the most notable.

[8GCBC]

Uh, guys......look in the cockpit of any airliner in America and you will find the halon bottle in standard commercial bail clip holder. I think the FAA has pretty much told us how they feel about the issue in the field because these are Part 121 inspected aircraft. I can pretty much guarantee you there is little if any emergency equipment in an airliner cockpit that could withstand 18gs fwd, the fire extinguisher, crash axe and ELT being the most notable.

That's my perception too. There are plenty of similar examples out there. Good post!

[Aviator]

... I can pretty much guarantee you there is little if any emergency equipment in an airliner cockpit that could withstand 18gs fwd

Actually, all of them can: it's part of the shakedown during the certification process of the component, its anchoring, aircraft section or the complete aircraft. If you use the same OEM or PMA part or combination of parts and install it/them in the same manner and orientation, you might have a good case - barring any possible patent infringement. Otherwise you have to do the proving yourself.

[WindOnHisNose]

After reading this thread I thought what the heck, perhaps I should use halon extinguishers around our house, at the hangar. When I did a google search I found that halon is pretty much banned world wide due to an association with depleting ozone from the atmosphere. Apparently aviation is given a pass on this ban.

Randy

[GeeBee]

Actually, all of them can: it's part of the shakedown during the certification process of the component, its anchoring, aircraft section or the complete aircraft. If you use the same OEM or PMA part or combination of parts and install it/them in the same manner and orientation, you might have a good case - barring any possible patent infringement. Otherwise you have to do the proving yourself.

So you are saying that the fire extinguisher, crash axe, elt, PBE etc all come with the airplane all certified from Boeing and Airbus?

[Aviator]

So you are saying that the fire extinguisher, crash axe, elt, PBE etc all come with the airplane all certified from Boeing and Airbus?

Don't know about foreign makes like Airbus or what sort of deals the FAA has with them, but as I recall, domestic (by that I mean North American) TC's are issued for types "as equipped," but may include model variants, variations, additional limitations, etc. It's up to the manufacturer to include whatever equipment he thinks his customer will need (or want) for a particular operation. Anything else added, changed or removed thereafter is a mod subject to separate certification.

[GeeBee]

Don't know about foreign makes like Airbus or what sort of deals the FAA has with them, but as I recall, domestic (by that I mean North American) TC's are issued for types "as equipped," but may include model variants, variations, additional limitations, etc. It's up to the manufacturer to include whatever equipment he thinks his customer will need (or want) for a particular operation. Anything else added, changed or removed thereafter is a mod subject to separate certification.

Well I'll say this. All the Boeings I've picked up, company mechanics installed the equipment, not Boeing and I ride a fair number of jumpseats to see that for a given make and model, all the equipment locations vary from airline to airline. So I don't think Boeing or Airbus are doing very many installations.

[sierra bravo]

After reading this thread I thought what the heck, perhaps I should use halon extinguishers around our house, at the hangar. When I did a google search I found that halon is pretty much banned world wide due to an association with depleting ozone from the atmosphere. Apparently aviation is given a pass on this ban.

Randy

Production of Halon was outlawed in the mid-90s but to my knowledge there is no law anywhere in the USA against selling, buying, or possessing halon for suppression equipment.

More good general info from H3R. http://www.h3raviation.com/support_faq.htm#q3

[SEFYK]

from the L21 USAF Handbook:
L21.jpg
L21a.jpg

The best one is - bail out if fire can not be put out

[SJ]

I like the sad face on the airplane...

sj

[Bill Ingerson]

Looking in the Summit racing equipment magazine and found a Halon fire system with three discharge lines. You could put one on the fire wall, another on the inside of the firewall and a third one somewhere, maybe where the sun doesn't shine. Pull the fire extinguisher handle mounted on the dash and wall ah ! comes in a refillable 5#bottle and it looks like a smaller one available about 4# only $337.95 Not cheap

On the same page is another one, not Halon but called HalGuard $105.95 1.4 lb bottle. Sounds like it would work well, but I don't know anything about it. Says no residue and made for classic cars so won't hurt the paint and make a mess on the car or electrical.