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Catto Prop certification

Does anyone know if Catto is working to certify a ground adjustable prop for the O 320 powered PA-12/18?
 
I don't know anything about a ground adjustable prop, but I talked with Craig Catto on Tue. (5/21) and he said certification was likely at least a few months away, but was not able to predict any closer than that. Outstanding fellow to talk to, by the way. I think he said he was working on certs. for both the 82 and 84 inch props.
 
From an email exchange I had with Craig.

Hello Steve,
Yes, we are in process certifying for the PA-12 PA-18 with the 150hp 160hp 320s and the 360 engines. Props of 82,84 and 86 length. Each propeller is available in a 5 inch pitch range.
The props weigh 13.1 lbs for the 82 and 14lbs for the 86.
We are probably about one year out on this.

Regards,
Craig Catto

0

craig@cattoprops.com
www.cattoprops.com
 
I spoke with Craig Catto today, he told me certification of his props is looking like mid 2014. He said all SC's would be covered 90's, 108's and etc. due to the wording in the TC. He also told me some have been approved, by a DER? possibly, in Alaska. If anyone has any knowledge about this and would be willing to share I am interested, particularly on a 108. Thanks, Jim
 
Just got an email response from Craig. No news, they're still waiting on the FAA. I asked him about an odd combination - a PA-18-95 first certified with a C90-12F, but later swapped to an O-200 via 337. He said even that scenario would be covered under his type certificate.
 
How does it mow down willow bushes?
Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175
 
How does it mow down willow bushes?
Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175

:pop:
 
How does it mow down willow bushes?
Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175

Sounds like you need one made out so steel
 
How does it mow down willow bushes?
Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175

Actually, these composite props cut down willows with enthusiasm, and suffer far less damage than an aluminum prop, due to the hard metal leading edge. Same for snow. That aluminum prop gets in much snow or especially water, and you'll be filing meat off it at the next annual, and eventually, it'll be out of spec and need to be replaced. The composite props with a metal LE don't suffer ANY damage from these causes. Eventually, you may have to have a new leading edge installed, but I've seen some of them that've been run through a LOT of gravel and looked pretty gnarly, and still working great. An aluminum prop used like that would be gone in short order from filing out dings.

As to a prop strike, it's one of those things where it all depends on just how hard the strike was. If it's a sorta mild strike, as you say, you MAY get away with sawing off the tips and flying an aluminum prop home, but you're buying a new prop when you get home in any case. So, you may save a few bucks in not having to have a spare prop flown out to you.....which is good.

But, take that prop strike just a little further, and that composite prop will probably save your engine. One of our airplanes got itself upside down (with the assistance of a crappy instructor on the brakes) on a sand bar, and that MT prop was destroyed....as in splinters. BUT, the crank on the engine dialed out perfect. I doubt that would have been the case if it'd had a metal prop.

So, it's kinda like the arguments about whether the PPonk gear mod is worth it....depends on how bad you screw up. Crankshafts are a WHOLE lot more expensive than a fixed pitch prop in any case.

MTV
 
Just got an email response from Craig. No news, they're still waiting on the FAA. I asked him about an odd combination - a PA-18-95 first certified with a C90-12F, but later swapped to an O-200 via 337. He said even that scenario would be covered under his type certificate.

Exactly why we see no innovation in aircraft. The FAA takes forever to approve this stuff. Once you put a million into engineering you get to wait on the faa to approve your work. Just look at the thread on the 406 ELTs, another excellent example.
 
Actually, these composite props cut down willows with enthusiasm, and suffer far less damage than an aluminum prop, due to the hard metal leading edge. Same for snow. That aluminum prop gets in much snow or especially water, and you'll be filing meat off it at the next annual, and eventually, it'll be out of spec and need to be replaced. The composite props with a metal LE don't suffer ANY damage from these causes. Eventually, you may have to have a new leading edge installed, but I've seen some of them that've been run through a LOT of gravel and looked pretty gnarly, and still working great. An aluminum prop used like that would be gone in short order from filing out dings.

As to a prop strike, it's one of those things where it all depends on just how hard the strike was. If it's a sorta mild strike, as you say, you MAY get away with sawing off the tips and flying an aluminum prop home, but you're buying a new prop when you get home in any case. So, you may save a few bucks in not having to have a spare prop flown out to you.....which is good.

But, take that prop strike just a little further, and that composite prop will probably save your engine. One of our airplanes got itself upside down (with the assistance of a crappy instructor on the brakes) on a sand bar, and that MT prop was destroyed....as in splinters. BUT, the crank on the engine dialed out perfect. I doubt that would have been the case if it'd had a metal prop.

So, it's kinda like the arguments about whether the PPonk gear mod is worth it....depends on how bad you screw up. Crankshafts are a WHOLE lot more expensive than a fixed pitch prop in any case.

MTV
But it's still a sudden stoppage.
 
Pulled an engine on a Carbon Cub today- second time for this one!, had a prop strike after landing - I guess he got on the brakes to hard when ATC wanted him off at the first exit. knocked one tip over and just dinged the other. I'm pretty sure his engine will be fine. Last time he blew 6" off the end of his prop. The first one was before the nickel leading edges were used. This last one was a work of art that I installed. Too bad he blew it! I feel bad for the guy; rotten luck with prop strikes. The engine shop told me that very few prop strike result in damaged parts.
 
=skipster;594204]But it's still a sudden stoppage.

Only if it stops. Russians are smarter then us, wooden props on all training aircraft. Gear up landing no problem, jack it up, lower gear, change prop, go flying.

Glenn
 
Those "smarter than us Russians" have built an olympic village where the happy tourists cannot flush TP down and feral dogs roam the streets, or street, don't know if they built more than one as I have only seen one on the news, but we should follow their lead on prop strikes?
 
Back in the days when most props were made of wood and the lawyers were not controlling every move, if a prop struck the ground and got splintered, it was just replaced. Seldom was there any further concern. It became more of a problem with aluminum props, since they could exert more force on the flanges etc.
 
Those "smarter than us Russians" have built an olympic village where the happy tourists cannot flush TP down and feral dogs roam the streets, or street, don't know if they built more than one as I have only seen one on the news, but we should follow their lead on prop strikes?


Buuuuuut..... the games are about the athletes, rather than the accommodations for tourists eh...?
 
Would it have to be certified for a CC Top Cub specifically, or once it makes the 0-360 would I be good to go? Need to shave weight, especially at the nose.
 
Quit taking David in the back and put Greg back there. ;)

Hopefully they will put the CC18-180 on the AML (Applicable Model List).
 
Thanks Steve, that was a good one! I have started making David remove the tic-tacs from his pockets and fill them with rolls of quarters. Gonna try and convince him next week that the new Adkins all pizza diet will make him much healthier. Greg is fun to fly with too, it's a wonder that anyone gets in the back seat with me.

Next time I'm down I'd like you to fly 8RZ, the vibration isn't as pronounced with the 82/42, but it seems to exist in all rpm ranges, whereas with the cruise prop, it only existed in the 2100-2400 range.
 
Thanks Steve, that was a good one! I have started making David remove the tic-tacs from his pockets and fill them with rolls of quarters. Gonna try and convince him next week that the new Adkins all pizza diet will make him much healthier. Greg is fun to fly with too, it's a wonder that anyone gets in the back seat with me.

Next time I'm down I'd like you to fly 8RZ, the vibration isn't as pronounced with the 82/42, but it seems to exist in all rpm ranges, whereas with the cruise prop, it only existed in the 2100-2400 range.

Did you have the prop/engine dynamic balanced after installation?

if not, get it done by someone who's qualified, and I'll bet you'll see a big difference.

MTV
 
We might need to send the prop back to the prop shop. Having always purchased new props from Jim Fix he always checked them and tweaked them since McCauley's tolerances are so broad. I put a new Borer on a LyCon flowed and balanced engine after having broken it in on a Sensenich that was really smooth. The new Borer that was supposed to have been checked shook my feet on the rudder pedals. When I pressed the shop they admitted that they did not double check the new prop. The one they overhauled is nice a smooth. I will send it back on my nickel and get them to double check it.
 
Thanks Steve. Don't want to overpaint the picture, it's not horrible, surely able to keep my feet on the pedals. It just has a higher frequency and broader range of vibration than the cruise had. Everything I read said the longer prop was supposed to smooth things out. Probably need to ride with David again for comparison. We'll just send you up in it and run it through various power settings and see what you think.
 
It is agrivating when you specifically ask someone to do something and explain why. The shipping cost and time swapping is better spent on a gas and flying. ;)
 
Thanks Steve. Don't want to overpaint the picture, it's not horrible, surely able to keep my feet on the pedals. It just has a higher frequency and broader range of vibration than the cruise had. Everything I read said the longer prop was supposed to smooth things out. Probably need to ride with David again for comparison. We'll just send you up in it and run it through various power settings and see what you think.

Have you tried re-indexing it 180 degrees. When I first got my Borer (prepped by Jim Fix) it had a noticeable vibration from 2500 and up. Turning it 180 made it very smooth........... of course now the airplane goes backwards.
 
Good one Perry! I'll just have to get used to the aieleron reversal, shouldn't take more than 3 flights though.:lol: Ironically I overheard Steve telling someone to do the same thing on the phone while Tom was installing mine. I'm sure he'll try that first if he thinks it's too bad like it is. Was hoping for the Cadillac ride after hearing about the extra stress the 360s put on the tail. It's possible that I'm just too picky, but either way I know Steve will get me hooked up. He's the kind of guy that really goes the extra mile, loves his job (if you can call it that, since he seems to love it) treats you like family, and truly cares about his people and their safety. Can't say enough about the guy. Very thankful he's only 1.5hrs away.
 
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