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Thread: Catto Prop certification

  1. #1
    DW's Avatar
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    Catto Prop certification

    Craig Catto will have a booth at the Alaska AirmansTrade Show and will be talking about the upcoming Certification of his props. Craig's sister who works for the FAA and helping with the process will also be there to answer any questions. orders for props are coming in fast so if your thinking about one you better get in line.

    DW
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    I just got my prop from Craig, 9 lbs lighter, pulls harder, and cruises faster. He told me that it might be possible to get his prop certified on the j-3s, 90 supercubs, ect because the wording of the type certificate was more vague as far as the propeller went. As long as the prop fell into certain parameters, rpm, material type ect it may be certifyable. That would sure be great, it sure woke my plane up!
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  3. #3
    Iflylower's Avatar
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    I love my newest Catto! It's smooth as glass, pulls harder, and cruises faster. I'm flying the 82/41 with full Nickel Leading edge on an O-320 160hp.
    If you're lucky enough to fly, you're lucky enough

    "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice." Charlie Brown

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    irishfield's Avatar
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    Great prop and I wish him all the luck getting it approved. Floggin your sister works for the FAA.. not gonna sit well with others....

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    I could not be happier with mine. Smoooooth, its an 84/44 on a O-360 Backcountry Supercub.
    Doug

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    DW's Avatar
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    Hey Doug what kind of cruise speeds are you getting are you on 31s?

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    I'm on 29's and I am getting 90 kts. My field elevation is 7800 so I only get around 60% power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8nelson View Post
    I'm on 29's and I am getting 90 kts. My field elevation is 7800 so I only get around 60% power.
    What engine? Prop? I'd like to go 90 kts on my 18 with 29ers on there...

    Thanks!!!
    http://spaincub.wordpress.com

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    Its ECI O-360 with the catto 84/44.
    Thanks SpainCub thanked for this post

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    Quote Originally Posted by rv8nelson View Post
    I'm on 29's and I am getting 90 kts. My field elevation is 7800 so I only get around 60% power.
    Where are you at, 7800?

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    Doorgunner's Avatar
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    Does Catto make a prop for the J-3 Cub? I contacted them but got no response as of yet.
    Black Cat 643

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    So what prop are they running that out performs a borer prop 41 pitch on a 150 hp cub?

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    Olibuilt's Avatar
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    And what is the best climb prop for a stock O-360?

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    aviationinfo's Avatar
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    His climb props are 84" and I think he said the 38" pitch would be a good middle of the road prop for my '12. I think the climb version is 36 or maybe less. Better to shoot him an email.
    Aviationinfo

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    DW's Avatar
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    most around here are using 82/41 for the 0-320 and for the 0-360 I'm using the 86/38 pulls hard on the bottom and cruise low 90s
    Thanks Carey Gray, Little_Cub thanked for this post

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW View Post
    most around here are using 82/41 for the 0-320 and for the 0-360 I'm using the 86/38 pulls hard on the bottom and cruise low 90s
    What kind of gains are the people with 0-320 seeing. I'm assuming there comparing to a borer prop? I would just like to get some weight off the nose of my cub and if it can out perform a b prop that's impressive, I'm not concerned with speed.

  17. #17
    gpepperd's Avatar
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    The Catto 8437 is a great climb prop for the 160hp. Friend of mine traded a Borer 8241 for the Catto 8437 and reports both better climb and cruise. I am running the Catto 8241 for mid 90's cruise and still lots of thrust. Hunting season sees me running the 8437 for a little less cruise but lots more thrust and climb power. I have tried all craig's props for the 0-320 from the 8436, 8437, 8438, 8241, & 8242. Each is just a little different so you just need to define performance parameters.
    Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of
    that comes from bad judgment. will rodgers

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW View Post
    Craig Catto will have a booth at the Alaska AirmansTrade Show and will be talking about the upcoming Certification of his props. Craig's sister who works for the FAA and helping with the process will also be there to answer any questions. orders for props are coming in fast so if your thinking about one you better get in line.

    DW
    We will just steal yours!
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  19. #19

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    Would be great to see the prop certified for 150-160hp Pacers also. The borer sure works great on a Pacer, and it sounds like the Catto would work better.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorgunner View Post
    Does Catto make a prop for the J-3 Cub? I contacted them but got no response as of yet.
    The following is from the Type Certificate data sheet A-691.
    http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgMakeModel.nsf/0/ec36f12e6e139c5b8625785c006c09c8/$FILE/A-691%20Rev%2034.pdf

    101. Propeller - Wood (fixed or adjustable pitch). +9 lb. (-51)

    This also:
    IV. - Model J3C-65, L-4H, L-4J
    Propeller Limits
    Static r.p.m. at maximum permissible throttle setting (No additional tolerance permitted):
    (a) With A-65-1 engine: Not over 2300, not under 2000.
    (b) With optional engines (Item 311C) and propeller Item 2 or 101:
    Not over 2300, not under 1950.
    Diameter: Not over 81 inches, not under 69.7 inches (with fixed pitch wood propeller).
    Not over 74 inches, not under 72 inches (with propeller Item 2).

    Entry in the aircraft log: Installed Catto model xxxx wood propeller in accordance with T.C. A-691 Item 101. Weight change negligible. signed Joe Blow 1234567 A&P.

    It is a minor alteration since it is defined in the type certificate.
    N1PA
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    Doorgunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorgunner View Post
    Does Catto make a prop for the J-3 Cub? I contacted them but got no response as of yet.
    I heard back from Catto. They do not make a prop for the J-3-65 unless it was made prior to 1939. There were no TCDS before that.
    Black Cat 643

  22. #22
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    The TCDS which I posted above is current. There is no date mentioned. I am curious as to why this: (101. Propeller - Wood (fixed or adjustable pitch). +9 lb. (-51)) does not apply to all J-3s?
    Last edited by skywagon8a; 02-22-2013 at 08:47 AM.
    N1PA

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    What cruise speed are you getting with the 82/41? I have the same engine, 160hp

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    Doorgunner's Avatar
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    Skywagon,
    I had back and forth discussions with Craig (owner of Catto) last night concerning the possibilities of these props in LSA aircraft. The discussion is still open and I have sent him the information you posted.

    His props have a wood core, so does that mean we could use them in the J-3s even with 85 and 90 hp engines?

    I am not savy when it comes to props.
    Black Cat 643

  25. #25
    DW's Avatar
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    The thing that impresses me the most with the latest generation of Graig's props are how smooth they are.

  26. #26
    Bugs66's Avatar
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    I could see having one of these props, sure are nice. A friend on my field just got an 86" Catto for his 180hp Cub project. I looked at the invoice and was surprised it was pushing $3500 with the crush plates. So the price advantage over the McCauley 1P235 is diminished.

    Update...Just to add to above. My friend included the 12" Vans spinner which Catto offers, all precut and drilled ready to use. That is nifty and a time saver! The crush plates are around $450 of the price.
    Last edited by Bugs66; 02-22-2013 at 01:09 PM. Reason: Fixed price

  27. #27
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doorgunner View Post
    Skywagon,
    I had back and forth discussions with Craig (owner of Catto) last night concerning the possibilities of these props in LSA aircraft. The discussion is still open and I have sent him the information you posted.

    His props have a wood core, so does that mean we could use them in the J-3s even with 85 and 90 hp engines?

    I am not savy when it comes to props.
    Doorgunner, I have no experience with certifying different props however your question prompted me to glance through the regs a little as though I wanted to install a basically "no name" prop on a J-3. That's when I found the above data on the TCDS. item 101 is a "no name" wood prop with no limitations other than diameter and rpm. Now you have encouraged me to look further in part 35: Airworthiness Standards: Propellers. This is a three page regulation which prescribes airworthiness standards for the issue of a propeller type certificate. Par 35.39(a) addresses fixed-pitch wood propellers. The TCDS does not specify that a type certificated wood prop is required. Basically this says that you could bolt on a wood prop and fly around firewalled for 5 hours and 45 hours at 90% rpm and it would be satisfactory.

    The above is my opinion based on my reading and interpretation of the regs. It does not seem like a big deal.

    An LSA airplane is approved under LSA rules which are not FARs. So, that would be a different procedure.
    N1PA

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs66 View Post
    I could see having one of these props, sure are nice. A friend on my field just got an 86" Catto for his 180hp Cub project. I looked at the invoice and was surprised it was pushing $3500 with the crush plates. So the price advantage over the McCauley 1P235 is diminished.

    Update...Just to add to above. My friend included the 12" Vans spinner which Catto offers, all precut and drilled ready to use. That is nifty and a time saver! The crush plates are around $450 of the price.
    Bugs there isn't much to the crush plate. Easy to make with a lathe and mill. They're aluminum.

    Ive been running a Catto 80 x 50 for a few months now. I like it better than my original Catto. I think it was $2200. It pulls better on the low end and cruises a bit faster.
    Nicht der Ort fur mich.

  29. #29
    DW's Avatar
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    You only need a crush plate for the 0-320 but for the 0-360 you need the crush plate and a flange adapter because you need dowels into the prop for all 6 holes the $450 is I believe for adapter and crush plate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DW View Post
    You only need a crush plate for the 0-320 but for the 0-360 you need the crush plate and a flange adapter because you need dowels into the prop for all 6 holes the $450 is I believe for adapter and crush plate.
    What's the latest on certification on these props? I wasn't able toattend the airshow so if any body no the scoop let me know?

    Also will a 84 in prop be certified on a cub?

  31. #31

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    Does anyone know if Catto is working to certify a ground adjustable prop for the O 320 powered PA-12/18?

  32. #32
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    I don't know anything about a ground adjustable prop, but I talked with Craig Catto on Tue. (5/21) and he said certification was likely at least a few months away, but was not able to predict any closer than that. Outstanding fellow to talk to, by the way. I think he said he was working on certs. for both the 82 and 84 inch props.
    After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF !

  33. #33
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    From an email exchange I had with Craig.

    Hello Steve,
    Yes, we are in process certifying for the PA-12 PA-18 with the 150hp 160hp 320s and the 360 engines. Props of 82,84 and 86 length. Each propeller is available in a 5 inch pitch range.
    The props weigh 13.1 lbs for the 82 and 14lbs for the 86.
    We are probably about one year out on this.

    Regards,
    Craig Catto


    craig@cattoprops.com
    www.cattoprops.com
    Steve Pierce

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    So likely nothing in the works for PA22's? Darn.

  35. #35
    cruiser's Avatar
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    I spoke with Craig Catto today, he told me certification of his props is looking like mid 2014. He said all SC's would be covered 90's, 108's and etc. due to the wording in the TC. He also told me some have been approved, by a DER? possibly, in Alaska. If anyone has any knowledge about this and would be willing to share I am interested, particularly on a 108. Thanks, Jim

  36. #36
    fancypants's Avatar
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    Kick ass. I was wondering if it would cover the C-90.

  37. #37
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    Just got an email response from Craig. No news, they're still waiting on the FAA. I asked him about an odd combination - a PA-18-95 first certified with a C90-12F, but later swapped to an O-200 via 337. He said even that scenario would be covered under his type certificate.

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    How does it mow down willow bushes?
    Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
    When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
    Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

    guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175

  39. #39
    tcraft128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Rallyer View Post
    How does it mow down willow bushes?
    Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
    When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
    Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

    guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175
    Turning money into noise since 1996

    Our Build here


  40. #40
    DW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alaska_Rallyer View Post
    How does it mow down willow bushes?
    Can it munch through snow when you are buried up to the cowling?
    When you hit that unexpected ditch hundreds of miles from anything bend the hell out of the tips can you cut it off at the stripes and still get home?
    Will i have to spray it with RAID to keep the spruce bark beatles away?

    guess you will always have a hunk of firewood with you until your buddy delivers your no good 1a175
    Sounds like you need one made out so steel

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