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Oratex UL 6000 Fabric Covering

Roger, will you start a thread on the new ORatex, please?

I've heard the rumors.

Love to know what they do to seal the edges, rib tapes, etc.?
 
Just got some samples of Oratex UL 6000 fabric. Think it's the way I'm going on the exp. project. No spray gun, 1/2 the weight and time to put it on. Tough as iron.

http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/Home_Page.html

Take care,

Crash

+1

We have a cub here covered in Oratex. So far the only things I see that I didn't care for is that it is pretty translucent, so a guy needs to take that into consideration when he paints the fuse, tail feathers , etc... Otherwise they will show up as shadow lines.
The other thing I see is that *it appears* that if you want the tapes tight around the rib stitches it probably takes a little more attention to get that way than say a dope finish...

Roger can probably set me straight on those issues tho, other than that it looks like a pretty slick way to go for a weight conciencous airplane.
 
Love to know what they do to seal the edges, rib tapes, etc.?[/QUOTE]

Hi Dave,
our glue holds at least 100pounds per square inch in a pull test, so our fabric should be "ON THERE FOR GOOD". But naturally our procedures manual calls out for never leaving an "structural" edge exposed! We have a pinked edge tape and a straight edge tape of various width available that is used to cover ALL SEAMS. These tapes have glue pre-applied on their backside and you just iron them on. Prudence has it that a coating of the glue is applied first on top of the seam and then (after its dry!) the tape is put onto That. So if the glue on the tape where to be overwhelmed it would still be held by the glue on the fabric-seam etc. So we figure we have a triple (redundant) way of securing any edges.
regards,
Lars
 
+1

We have a cub here covered in Oratex. So far the only things I see that I didn't care for is that it is pretty translucent, so a guy needs to take that into consideration when he paints the fuse, tail feathers , etc... Otherwise they will show up as shadow lines.
Hi Rob,
Please say do you have the Oratex UL600 or the Oratex6000 on it and what color is it?
Would like to know...
Regards from Anchorage,
Lars
 
Hi Rob,
Please say do you have the Oratex UL600 or the Oratex6000 on it and what color is it?
Would like to know...
Regards from Anchorage,
Lars

Hi Lars,

I *think* you know the cub pretty well. and I *think* it is all 6000 including the tapes. It is yellow, and I didn't mean for what I wrote to come across critical to either the product, or the cub in particular. Just some observations from the casual time I've spent around it.

Am I right in assuming there is not a difference in tapes such as the 'straight' and 'bias' tapes of Ceconite? and if so can a guy manipulate the 600 tapes better for use in compound radius areas?

I will shoot you a PM, or email, as I am starting to fall behind.

Also, I will paste this to the other thread, as it is getting complicated to read through the two for one topic.

Take care, Rob
 
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Lars, are they only colors available the ones on the website ?
Hi,
At this point we have "only" Fokker Red, Corsair Blue,
Olive-drab-Green, Cub Yellow, Insignia White, natural white, Aluminum
powder colored Silver, and "Antique". But if the colors are dislike it
can be painted if so desired...and there will be more colors in the future...
Regards from Anchorage!
 
A friend gave this to me. Not all of the fabric systems are listed but it is interesting. It looks like the oratex is hands down the winner weight wise. Kind of spendy though.
 

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Hi Clint-

Can someone tell us an accurate cost for Stits or Ceconite complete, fabric, tape, glue, UV, primer, paint etc? Our last build was a little over $6,000 using Oratex.

I am as cheap as the next guy but when we did our last project I was counting what it took to replace other items dollars-per-pound.. the normal items cost from $500 to $1000 per pound to loose weight (floor boards, leading edges, glass, firewall etc) Our Experimental Cub had just over 20# of Oratex fabric once complete! Even if we only saved 30# we paid for the fabric several times in savings! If we could find someplace to save that kinda weight it would have cost us between $15,000 and $30,000 to get it using titanium or Carbon!

The other thing that was impressive is my_wife_did_the_fabric! She has been around a couple other builds and always ran the other way when things started smelling of dope.. this doesn't smell.

While I am ramped up about it.. from all items prepared and ready for fabric to finished and DAR inspected.. 4 long days with the two of us working! At 65 I don't move that fast but it went together quickly!

Just my opinion- :smile:
frank
 
If you go by what the book says and use 10 gallons of poly brush, 10 gallons of poly spray and use aero thane to finish painting it I can easily see a 60 lb cover job. I used the minimum on mine and used poly tone and used about 4 gallons of poly brush and 4 gallons of poly spray. I had a little ding up a few years ago and had to recover one of my wings and the weight of the fabric for one wing minus flap and aileron was 6.75 lbs, so theoreticly the total cover job for the whole airplane was no more than 30 lbs.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking oratex, but I can do a stits cover job for around 2 grand. It takes a lot of time to cover but is probably going to be a better option for me as I am building on a budget.
 
Got a recent quote for a PA-18 using the Stewarts System up through paint at around $3,200.00 for all the materials.

Think Oratex is about $67.00 per yard. Figure 45 to 50 yards to cover a Cub so roughly $3,350.00 for the fabric without glue and tapes.

Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.

Greg
 
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I'm all about saving weight! I might have to save a little money I guess and just get the Oratex. An extra 1,500$ to save 5-8 lbs would make a big difference on an lsa.
 
...and used poly tone and used about 4 gallons of poly brush and 4 gallons of poly spray. ...

ya the stits book is way HIGH on what you will need, you'll have half it left over... maybe they are still based on the old spray guns/overspray that all goes out the exhaust fan....
 
ya the stits book is way HIGH on what you will need, you'll have half it left over... maybe they are still based on the old spray guns/overspray that all goes out the exhaust fan....

Mike- you bring up another good reason to use Oratex.. all the hardware required.. compressor, paint guns, booth with fans and of course a fresh air system unless you trust a mask. I see Roger did the tail feathers on the kitchen counter to illustrate the point. A paint shop is never really clean!

Personally made some mistakes in the early days when using 2-part paints, it's exciting this stuff can safely be used without all the issues. At least it's good we have the option.

frank
 
... and of course a fresh air system unless you trust a mask. ..

all i use is a mask... and i even change the cartriges yearly now instead of when my face gets strips from the leaks because they are plugged :)

I did use a fresh air system when i was learning a few times in mid/late 80's.. a NOTE.. do NOT put the fresh air supply hose OUTSIDE when it's -20f out... talk about a headache!!!! :-x
 
Got a recent quote for a PA-18 using the Stewarts System up through paint at around $3,200.00 for all the materials.

Think Oratex is about $67.00 per yard. Figure 45 to 50 yards to cover a Cub so roughly $3,350.00 for the fabric without glue and tapes.

Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.

Greg
I wish I could have done my Cub for that....poly fiber with envelopes was $5000 ....I used polytone for top coats. I should have shopped around I guess.
 
The proof is in the pudding as they say, "dammed if I know what that means". You got to try it and then you are like a preacher on a soap box or a reformed smoker.
If you still want to squirt some paint, There paint is like nothing you have ever used.
 
Who is they? The Germans? Is there an American company associated with Oratex? Maybe Lars can chime in and state where they are at in the certification process...
 
.....Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.
Greg

Hi,
We are working on such things as instructional manuals and videos: Some of it is already on U-Tube. As it is really a very easy and straightforward process, by order of magnitude easier, most did not even ask for a manual, especially as I email one with the few critical points out to anybody who wants it. Also I do spend hours on the phone with anybody who wants to listen to that German Accent and explain how its done right. Also I do visit if its in reach of my B7GCBC&Wallet.
As a start-up breaking into a monopoly life ain't easy. Especially if your beloved XP-computer craters and You find out they only sell the awful Windooof 8 ones here....(I hate computers)...
regards...
 
Who is they? The Germans? Is there an American company associated with Oratex? Maybe Lars can chime in and state where they are at in the certification process...

Hi Nanook!
They is ME.
German alright but just one. I have the help of some Alaskan Friends and we are working with the FAA on an STC. I can say that much: Its going on. (BetterAircraftFabric is the American Company about Oratex)
Also I should say the German mother-company that makes Oratex is working in Europe on a EU-STC-Approval which will eventually percolate through to our side of the pond...etc...

Its funny that Mike MCS repair talks about the fresh-air supply headache...
I know these headaches VERY WELL. They come in fall when you're trying to finish your plane before it gets too cold. I do not dare paint without fresh air supply and the cold outside air blowing on your head is really bad...Talk about the need for "Heated intake air" !!! Due to that I only paint in the summer month, period.
I almost killed myself once with airplane work, 25 years ago, I wont Ever take a risk to breathe any of that stuff again!
 
Anyone yet try applying some trim lines over the unpainted fabric, using vinyl decals? That stuff (vinyl) seems to stick to about anything, and that sure would be an easy way to add a little trim line and still avoid paint.

As to the paint equipment needed or not needed: most builders already have it, and will still need it if thry don't have it, for all other the other little parts (fuselage) that need to be primed and painted. BTW, I took a tour of the nearby Husky plant the othe other day, (Afton is a frequent breakfast destination) and powder coating is not used at all there, still done the tried and true way. Also BTW, business seemed to be very good there, the plant was full of airplanes and people working on them, good to see.
 
Vinyl sticks fine to Oratex. Have all the trim and nose art being done now for N3150P. Will post picts when done.
Now only have N numbers and Experimental on plane.
 
Lars, any news on the certification process for the U.S. Also are you including all rag pipers including PA-20, 22's? thanks
 
Lars, a question: I saw on the web site that someone applied the Oratex fabric to the cowling rather than paint. How can they do that given the cowling can get quite HOT. What is the long term experience with that. BTW, what is the life of oratex?
 
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