Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 46

Thread: Oratex UL 6000 Fabric Covering

  1. #1
    Crash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Nikiski Alaska
    Posts
    2,594
    Post Thanks / Like

    Oratex UL 6000 Fabric Covering

    Just got some samples of Oratex UL 6000 fabric. Think it's the way I'm going on the exp. project. No spray gun, 1/2 the weight and time to put it on. Tough as iron.

    http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/Home_Page.html

    Take care,

    Crash
    "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10

  2. #2
    Roger Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sweeny, Texas
    Posts
    1,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Just got some samples of Oratex UL 6000 fabric. Think it's the way I'm going on the exp. project. No spray gun, 1/2 the weight and time to put it on. Tough as iron.

    http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/Home_Page.html

    Take care,

    Crash
    Call if I can be of any help Crash. It is a little different to work with.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  3. #3
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    4,685
    Post Thanks / Like
    Roger, will you start a thread on the new ORatex, please?

    I've heard the rumors.

    Love to know what they do to seal the edges, rib tapes, etc.?

  4. #4
    Rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wellton, AZ
    Posts
    605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Just got some samples of Oratex UL 6000 fabric. Think it's the way I'm going on the exp. project. No spray gun, 1/2 the weight and time to put it on. Tough as iron.

    http://www.betteraircraftfabric.com/Home_Page.html

    Take care,

    Crash
    +1

    We have a cub here covered in Oratex. So far the only things I see that I didn't care for is that it is pretty translucent, so a guy needs to take that into consideration when he paints the fuse, tail feathers , etc... Otherwise they will show up as shadow lines.
    The other thing I see is that *it appears* that if you want the tapes tight around the rib stitches it probably takes a little more attention to get that way than say a dope finish...

    Roger can probably set me straight on those issues tho, other than that it looks like a pretty slick way to go for a weight conciencous airplane.

  5. #5
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Love to know what they do to seal the edges, rib tapes, etc.?[/QUOTE]

    Hi Dave,
    our glue holds at least 100pounds per square inch in a pull test, so our fabric should be "ON THERE FOR GOOD". But naturally our procedures manual calls out for never leaving an "structural" edge exposed! We have a pinked edge tape and a straight edge tape of various width available that is used to cover ALL SEAMS. These tapes have glue pre-applied on their backside and you just iron them on. Prudence has it that a coating of the glue is applied first on top of the seam and then (after its dry!) the tape is put onto That. So if the glue on the tape where to be overwhelmed it would still be held by the glue on the fabric-seam etc. So we figure we have a triple (redundant) way of securing any edges.
    regards,
    Lars

  6. #6
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob View Post
    +1

    We have a cub here covered in Oratex. So far the only things I see that I didn't care for is that it is pretty translucent, so a guy needs to take that into consideration when he paints the fuse, tail feathers , etc... Otherwise they will show up as shadow lines.
    Hi Rob,
    Please say do you have the Oratex UL600 or the Oratex6000 on it and what color is it?
    Would like to know...
    Regards from Anchorage,
    Lars

  7. #7
    Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Petersburgh, NY
    Posts
    2,831
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lars, are they only colors available the ones on the website ?

  8. #8
    Rob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Wellton, AZ
    Posts
    605
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Lars Gleitsmann View Post
    Hi Rob,
    Please say do you have the Oratex UL600 or the Oratex6000 on it and what color is it?
    Would like to know...
    Regards from Anchorage,
    Lars
    Hi Lars,

    I *think* you know the cub pretty well. and I *think* it is all 6000 including the tapes. It is yellow, and I didn't mean for what I wrote to come across critical to either the product, or the cub in particular. Just some observations from the casual time I've spent around it.

    Am I right in assuming there is not a difference in tapes such as the 'straight' and 'bias' tapes of Ceconite? and if so can a guy manipulate the 600 tapes better for use in compound radius areas?

    I will shoot you a PM, or email, as I am starting to fall behind.

    Also, I will paste this to the other thread, as it is getting complicated to read through the two for one topic.

    Take care, Rob
    Last edited by Rob; 02-13-2013 at 02:13 PM.

  9. #9
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Lars, are they only colors available the ones on the website ?
    Hi,
    At this point we have "only" Fokker Red, Corsair Blue,
    Olive-drab-Green, Cub Yellow, Insignia White, natural white, Aluminum
    powder colored Silver, and "Antique". But if the colors are dislike it
    can be painted if so desired...and there will be more colors in the future...
    Regards from Anchorage!

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hot Springs, SD
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like
    A friend gave this to me. Not all of the fabric systems are listed but it is interesting. It looks like the oratex is hands down the winner weight wise. Kind of spendy though.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Clint Busenitz

  11. #11
    Little_Cub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi Clint-

    Can someone tell us an accurate cost for Stits or Ceconite complete, fabric, tape, glue, UV, primer, paint etc? Our last build was a little over $6,000 using Oratex.

    I am as cheap as the next guy but when we did our last project I was counting what it took to replace other items dollars-per-pound.. the normal items cost from $500 to $1000 per pound to loose weight (floor boards, leading edges, glass, firewall etc) Our Experimental Cub had just over 20# of Oratex fabric once complete! Even if we only saved 30# we paid for the fabric several times in savings! If we could find someplace to save that kinda weight it would have cost us between $15,000 and $30,000 to get it using titanium or Carbon!

    The other thing that was impressive is my_wife_did_the_fabric! She has been around a couple other builds and always ran the other way when things started smelling of dope.. this doesn't smell.

    While I am ramped up about it.. from all items prepared and ready for fabric to finished and DAR inspected.. 4 long days with the two of us working! At 65 I don't move that fast but it went together quickly!

    Just my opinion-
    frank

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hot Springs, SD
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like
    If you go by what the book says and use 10 gallons of poly brush, 10 gallons of poly spray and use aero thane to finish painting it I can easily see a 60 lb cover job. I used the minimum on mine and used poly tone and used about 4 gallons of poly brush and 4 gallons of poly spray. I had a little ding up a few years ago and had to recover one of my wings and the weight of the fabric for one wing minus flap and aileron was 6.75 lbs, so theoreticly the total cover job for the whole airplane was no more than 30 lbs.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking oratex, but I can do a stits cover job for around 2 grand. It takes a lot of time to cover but is probably going to be a better option for me as I am building on a budget.
    Clint Busenitz

  13. #13
    Crash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Nikiski Alaska
    Posts
    2,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Got a recent quote for a PA-18 using the Stewarts System up through paint at around $3,200.00 for all the materials.

    Think Oratex is about $67.00 per yard. Figure 45 to 50 yards to cover a Cub so roughly $3,350.00 for the fabric without glue and tapes.

    Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.

    Greg
    Last edited by Crash; 04-28-2013 at 02:58 AM.
    "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10

  14. #14

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Hot Springs, SD
    Posts
    254
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'm all about saving weight! I might have to save a little money I guess and just get the Oratex. An extra 1,500$ to save 5-8 lbs would make a big difference on an lsa.
    Clint Busenitz

  15. #15
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    6,321
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Super11XP View Post
    ...and used poly tone and used about 4 gallons of poly brush and 4 gallons of poly spray. ...
    ya the stits book is way HIGH on what you will need, you'll have half it left over... maybe they are still based on the old spray guns/overspray that all goes out the exhaust fan....

  16. #16
    Little_Cub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    ya the stits book is way HIGH on what you will need, you'll have half it left over... maybe they are still based on the old spray guns/overspray that all goes out the exhaust fan....
    Mike- you bring up another good reason to use Oratex.. all the hardware required.. compressor, paint guns, booth with fans and of course a fresh air system unless you trust a mask. I see Roger did the tail feathers on the kitchen counter to illustrate the point. A paint shop is never really clean!

    Personally made some mistakes in the early days when using 2-part paints, it's exciting this stuff can safely be used without all the issues. At least it's good we have the option.

    frank

  17. #17
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    6,321
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Little_Cub View Post
    ... and of course a fresh air system unless you trust a mask. ..
    all i use is a mask... and i even change the cartriges yearly now instead of when my face gets strips from the leaks because they are plugged

    I did use a fresh air system when i was learning a few times in mid/late 80's.. a NOTE.. do NOT put the fresh air supply hose OUTSIDE when it's -20f out... talk about a headache!!!!

  18. #18

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Upper Peninsula of Michigan
    Posts
    190
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    Got a recent quote for a PA-18 using the Stewarts System up through paint at around $3,200.00 for all the materials.

    Think Oratex is about $67.00 per yard. Figure 45 to 50 yards to cover a Cub so roughly $3,350.00 for the fabric without glue and tapes.

    Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.

    Greg
    I wish I could have done my Cub for that....poly fiber with envelopes was $5000 ....I used polytone for top coats. I should have shopped around I guess.

  19. #19
    Roger Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sweeny, Texas
    Posts
    1,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    The proof is in the pudding as they say, "dammed if I know what that means". You got to try it and then you are like a preacher on a soap box or a reformed smoker.
    If you still want to squirt some paint, There paint is like nothing you have ever used.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  20. #20
    nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    northern alaska
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Is this process STC'd?

  21. #21
    Little_Cub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Palmer, Alaska
    Posts
    152
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    Is this process STC'd?
    No but I think they are workin' on it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Peterson View Post
    You got to try it and then you are like a preacher on a soap box or a reformed smoker.
    Roger- hehe.. perfect analogy!

    I hope it does take off in the experimental world.. so it helps finance the certification for everyone else.

  22. #22
    nanook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    northern alaska
    Posts
    936
    Post Thanks / Like
    Who is they? The Germans? Is there an American company associated with Oratex? Maybe Lars can chime in and state where they are at in the certification process...

  23. #23
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    .....Not that big of a difference. Wish Oratex had better support in the way of a real instruction manual and DVD set like Stewarts, Poly Fiber and the others.
    Greg
    Hi,
    We are working on such things as instructional manuals and videos: Some of it is already on U-Tube. As it is really a very easy and straightforward process, by order of magnitude easier, most did not even ask for a manual, especially as I email one with the few critical points out to anybody who wants it. Also I do spend hours on the phone with anybody who wants to listen to that German Accent and explain how its done right. Also I do visit if its in reach of my B7GCBC&Wallet.
    As a start-up breaking into a monopoly life ain't easy. Especially if your beloved XP-computer craters and You find out they only sell the awful Windooof 8 ones here....(I hate computers)...
    regards...

  24. #24
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    Who is they? The Germans? Is there an American company associated with Oratex? Maybe Lars can chime in and state where they are at in the certification process...
    Hi Nanook!
    They is ME.
    German alright but just one. I have the help of some Alaskan Friends and we are working with the FAA on an STC. I can say that much: Its going on. (BetterAircraftFabric is the American Company about Oratex)
    Also I should say the German mother-company that makes Oratex is working in Europe on a EU-STC-Approval which will eventually percolate through to our side of the pond...etc...

    Its funny that Mike MCS repair talks about the fresh-air supply headache...
    I know these headaches VERY WELL. They come in fall when you're trying to finish your plane before it gets too cold. I do not dare paint without fresh air supply and the cold outside air blowing on your head is really bad...Talk about the need for "Heated intake air" !!! Due to that I only paint in the summer month, period.
    I almost killed myself once with airplane work, 25 years ago, I wont Ever take a risk to breathe any of that stuff again!

  25. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Inkom, Idaho
    Posts
    604
    Post Thanks / Like
    Anyone yet try applying some trim lines over the unpainted fabric, using vinyl decals? That stuff (vinyl) seems to stick to about anything, and that sure would be an easy way to add a little trim line and still avoid paint.

    As to the paint equipment needed or not needed: most builders already have it, and will still need it if thry don't have it, for all other the other little parts (fuselage) that need to be primed and painted. BTW, I took a tour of the nearby Husky plant the othe other day, (Afton is a frequent breakfast destination) and powder coating is not used at all there, still done the tried and true way. Also BTW, business seemed to be very good there, the plant was full of airplanes and people working on them, good to see.

  26. #26
    Roger Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sweeny, Texas
    Posts
    1,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Vinyl sticks fine to Oratex. Have all the trim and nose art being done now for N3150P. Will post picts when done.
    Now only have N numbers and Experimental on plane.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  27. #27

    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    4
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lars, I sent you a PM

  28. #28
    dplunkt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    S.E. Pennsylvania
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lars, any news on the certification process for the U.S. Also are you including all rag pipers including PA-20, 22's? thanks

  29. #29
    dplunkt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    S.E. Pennsylvania
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    Lars, a question: I saw on the web site that someone applied the Oratex fabric to the cowling rather than paint. How can they do that given the cowling can get quite HOT. What is the long term experience with that. BTW, what is the life of oratex?

  30. #30
    WhiskeyMike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    West Boxford MA
    Posts
    508
    Post Thanks / Like
    Any chance Cub Crafters would try this out for weight savings?

  31. #31
    KenyaCub's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Kenya, Africa
    Posts
    183
    Post Thanks / Like
    We covered our latest wings on the DoubleEnder prototype with Oratex fabric. I was simply amazed at how simple and quick the fabric went on. In two days we had both wings covered and flying, minus the tapes. I love the fact that it seems so simple to patch. Something that would really come in handy in places like Africa where fabric knowledge is limited and matching paints is a big challenge. Putting a patch on this is as easy as ironing on a pre-glued, pre-painted piece of fabric. The only downsides i could say would be that the finish is not as shiny as what I am used to with the previous methods and it seems that avgas will permanently stain it if it remains in contact for extended periods of time (such as a leaky fuel drain). We did weigh it compared to the stits process and it is about half the weight. It seems that you would save an honest 20 -25 lbs on a cub. It also seemed quite durable, but time will tell how it really holds up. I gave it a few smacks with some bushes while landing and it seemed to hold up just fine. Good stuff and I would use it again. The speed, simplicity and weight is what is most attractive to me.
    Last edited by KenyaCub; 07-11-2013 at 12:58 AM.

  32. #32
    Lars Gleitsmann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Anchorage, Alaska
    Posts
    62
    Post Thanks / Like
    Hi,
    in response to "dplunkt": We do have a Standard Category Aircraft STC approval by the EASA, being the European-type-of-FAA. This was granted two weeks ago. We are also getting closer to an FAA STC on covering the Ragwing Pipers, but those things take time. As on the subject of time, the oldest Oratex-covered airplane is flying with it over 10 years now, and it still looks like and feels like it was on the first day. There has been some "Testing" by a fellow in France but it wasnt realistic as it allowed the backside of the fabric to get wet and be exposed to the sun, and be even attached to soaked wet wood, while any plane would have fabric on both sides of the wings and have weather/waterproof wings and varnished wood. So under reasonable conditions we expect it to last a very long time. The Oratex on the cowl seems to have no problems even in the heat of Texas. FAA wanted us to proof our glue at 239Fahrenheit and we did proof it is fine at 250F and even beyond. It melts only ONCE at the 200F. Once cured it will only melt at much higher temps. Anyway Even on the cowl it works. And if one wants 100% shiny he could rub it with Johnsons Carnauba Wax or paint it with our own proprietary paint.
    I hope I get to try that idea of mine with the GO480 and Cub-sized plane, but have been too much at work to make any progress there...

  33. #33
    Roger Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sweeny, Texas
    Posts
    1,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by dplunkt View Post
    Lars, a question: I saw on the web site that someone applied the Oratex fabric to the cowling rather than paint. How can they do that given the cowling can get quite HOT. What is the long term experience with that. BTW, what is the life of oratex?

    I covered the entire Cowl and Nosebowl with Oratex. No problem with heat. I did it to make it all look the sam and don't have to worry about the paint chipping.
    Sure like it better than painting. Just make sure you prime your metal the same as if you were going to paint. Then apply a layer of adhesive to the entire cowl.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  34. #34
    Roger Peterson's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Sweeny, Texas
    Posts
    1,353
    Post Thanks / Like
    Forgot to mention, I used the lightweight fabric on the Cowl, not the 6000
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  35. #35
    dplunkt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    S.E. Pennsylvania
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    I got some samples from the nice folks at oratex to show our EEA chapter. I plan to apply it to some fairings I would normally paint to see how that works.

  36. #36
    dplunkt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    S.E. Pennsylvania
    Posts
    60
    Post Thanks / Like
    Here's a question...I need to redo the fabric on my mains. What are the chances I could get an approval to use 6000 on just my main gear?

  37. #37

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lebanon NH
    Posts
    86
    Post Thanks / Like
    Crash, I received the sample kit from Lars great guy contemplating using Oratex for cover on my exp supercub did you come up with a total cost figure for the cover?

  38. #38
    Crash's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Nikiski Alaska
    Posts
    2,594
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Clifford View Post
    Crash, I received the sample kit from Lars great guy contemplating using Oratex for cover on my exp supercub did you come up with a total cost figure for the cover?
    Lars, did give me a sample kit. I haven't had an opportunity to make a test panel yet to see how it performs. We built a new house and hanger this last year, along with moving, just no time to work on planes.

    We're settled in now so I may have time after the holidays to get back on the Exp project.

    It is a departure from what we know so it's a leap of faith once you pull the trigger on an order.

    If we use the old rule of thumb that a Cub takes 45 square yards of fabric to cover. Oratex, at $67.00 per yard, would come out to $3,015.00 just for fabric, not including tapes, glue etc.

    It's more $$, but not that much more.

    Take care,

    Crash
    "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10

  39. #39

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lebanon NH
    Posts
    86
    Post Thanks / Like
    So, what did the cost come to for every thing for the compleat cover for everything (tapes glues etc)?

  40. #40
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    6,321
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Crash View Post
    ...a Cub takes 45 square yards....
    Crash
    square? or running yards??(70") i would think the later, but.........????

Similar Threads

  1. Covering fabric
    By NimpoCub in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-31-2012, 11:42 PM
  2. Covering Fuel Tank on SQ2 with fabric
    By d_kandle in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-26-2010, 01:51 PM
  3. Covering + fabric PA18
    By jse18 in forum Super Cub Repair Facilities
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 06-04-2010, 11:23 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •