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Thread: Lowrider LSA

  1. #2041

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    Oppps....I primed and painted the main spar on my right wing and not on the left one. At some point I decided not to paint interior of wings and forgot that I've already done the right main spar.There will be a weight difference due to the paint. I know both wings should weight exactly the same but that ain't gunna happen. Is there a percentage of difference in wing weight that's acceptable??
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  2. #2042

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    I usually burn one tank dry before I go to the other wing. Plane don't care. So unless you put over 18 gal of paint on the spar the plane won't care.
    DENNY

  3. #2043

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    Thanks Denny!

    Guess I should have worded the question differently...wasn't concerned that I could only make right turns. I was trying to see if there is a standard for weight variance...one side compared to the other. I guess drag differences would have as much or more effect on the how the plane trims out as weight.

    On little planes with only 2 tanks I always use "both" to try to burn evenly but it never completely works out that way anyway. My 170 has different capacities on each wing and sometimes they burn at the same rate but usually not and I get a heavy wing at some point but I have rule on how far down I burn fuel...usually driven by my bladder.
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  4. #2044

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    If you look at most W&B paperwork one side is usually heavier it is not a big deal. I usually burn right tank until prop slows way down then go to left. Think of the guys that hang that heavy remote compass way out on the end of one wing.
    DENNY

  5. #2045

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    Good point! The weights are never the same...even if you wanted them to be the same. Thanks for the thoughts.

    Just went over to the shop to check the heat and the snow is over my 10" boots and still falling. It looks like some of the drifting may account for that but I sure wish the 6' snow blower I'm building was completed...much better than the 27" walk behind...tractor bucket and box will deal with it once it stops falling. My wife is always excited by the first snow fall but that doesn't last long. I'm excited that my new tractor has a heated (air conditioned) cab...tractor bliss!!!
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  6. #2046

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    [QUOTE=Lowrider;

    I'm busy now with helping build matching father and son AR-15 pistols with a 10.5" barrel in .277 Wolverine...not for me or one of my offspring...helping a friend.[/QUOTE]

    They turned out so nice I made one for myself...it's in .277 Wolverine too and is shooting 1.25" groups at 100yds.

    2017-11-07 22.28.18.jpg
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  7. #2047

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    I have all the ribs (main and nose) ready to attach to the spars. It seems the right wing is proceeding faster than the other wing, probably because I have done this before but I'm still spending a reasonable amount of time referring to the drawings to make sure I'm still doing things correctly. Only problem so far is that my left hand (the one I smashed with the 3 pt hitch on my little tractor almost a year ago) is not picking up rivets the way it should and as a result sometimes I need to put the rivet gun down so I can use my right hand on placing rivets in the holes. Left does fine holding the bucking bar or other chores requiring less dexterity.

    I'm still looking forward to #2 son getting my trim servos working properly and installed in the left aileron and the elevator control rod.

    I moved the left wing and fuselage down to my Southern shop at Hackney Air Park (ID 5) to make room here for other projects. One project will be a trailer to pull behind my old Goldwing and the Harley Lowrider. Yeah...Lowrider came from the Harley and not a slammed car or truck. All my vehicles strive for ground clearance.

    It has been pretty warm in the ID panhandle so far but that's about to change tomorrow. Deer season is over and the snow is getting too deep in the mountains to do much travel up there except by snow machine...took them to the Southern shop too. Looks like I will be working steadily on the right wing unless we sell the house here and get thrown out of this place...we'll see.
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  8. #2048

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    Anyone have any knowledge or experience with the Honda based Viking engines? 170 hp at 260 lbs turbo charged.
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  9. #2049

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    I like the Fit engine, also used in Honda outboards, a continuous rated power application. But Jan's history of letting customers pay for the ongoing development is something you should look into. His stance, years ago, when he was doing Subaru, was: I won't fix your G2 gearbox, here, buy my new G3,because, you know, it's all experimental. I'm sure he gets heckled at symposiums like Jim Bede did.
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  10. #2050
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    Anyone have any knowledge or experience with the Honda based Viking engines? 170 hp at 260 lbs turbo charged.
    Run, do not walk, to the nearest exit. Eggenfellner is bad news!
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  11. #2051

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    Skywalker,

    Not sure if that is a positive or negative comment...I gotta say I've only had one Lycoming come apart in flight (IFR in the soup at 6K over Soldatna and thanks to ANC departure ended with me smiling) but I've never had a Honda do that in a car or any other engine of which I have many. I'm pretty confident in Honda engineering and production, maybe less so with aftermarket drive units although they are simple and it should be easy enough to build one that is as reliable as the Honda engine that drives it...yes?


    Eddie,

    Not difficult to determine which way your comment leans!!! Can you enlighten us on what led you to this conclusion please.
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  12. #2052

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    He started off with converted Fit motors, no turbo, 110hp. With his experience in gearboxes to this point, maybe his first pass at normally aspirated Hondas is sound. Some Searey owners seem happy with theirs. But now he's off again with turbo pressure. I wouldn't follow, maybe in 5 years.

  13. #2053
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    He started with Subaru engines in the 90s. That went bankrupt in 2009. Started Viking in 2010. Caveat Emptor.

    He left a lot of people holding the bag in 2009. Lets his customers do his R&D and field testing.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  14. #2054

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    He gave Subaru auto conversions a bad name. I ALMOST bought into his slick presentation when I ran across his display at Arlington fly-in, while I was looking for a powerplant for my first RANS S-7 in '97. I ended up going with a different Soob converter, one who had no fancy brochures but flew it in (with over 1000 hours TT) along with another actual flying example. I put 1300 totally trouble free hours on it before I moved on to my second S-7, belt drive BTW. That converter (Stratus) is now gone, the original guy sold out, and the second owner seems to have lost interest.

    Meanwhile, the Rotax 912S I used for my second S-7, saved me 30 or 40 lbs., even better fuel economy, and a cleaner cowl/less drag as it all fits inside. This summer I reached the 2000 hour TBO on it, totally trouble and event free, and at 2200 hours I went ahead and more or less put a new short block in it, selling the old components to offset the 10K cost somewhat. The main thing about all the auto conversions, regardless of the redrives or the vendors, is the weight of them. Even ones that work fine and are inexpensive (mine was about 6K!) are heavier, plus they need a bit more room, tough for a tandem design most times.

  15. #2055

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    Well, I still like the idea of a Honda engine, just not from that fellow. I have a first run 0-320 with the crank, rods and other stuff yellow tagged so I suppose I'll continue along that route...throttle body, electronic ignition and maybe Lycon jugs. I'm hearing Lycon is really backed up on their work so I might search out another reputable shop...any ideas?

    That Honda Fit engine sure is tempting!!
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  16. #2056
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lowrider View Post
    I have a first run 0-320 with the crank, rods and other stuff yellow tagged so I suppose I'll continue along that route...throttle body, electronic ignition and maybe Lycon jugs. I'm hearing Lycon is really backed up on their work so I might search out another reputable shop...any ideas?
    You seem to be mechanically inclined, why don't you get the Lycoming overhaul manual and do it yourself? These are basic engines they don't require a rocket scientist to put them together.
    N1PA

  17. #2057

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    Hey Sky!

    Good to hear from you!

    I've done enough small block Chevy's to probably fall back on. Did a 360 AMC for my old 49 CJ-2A about 10 years ago...it ran just fine after I figured out I was
    180* out on the timing.

    I have the Lycoming manual and parts manual and I have most of the tools necessary to assemble the engine. I wanted to get the jugs cleaned up and ported to get a little extra HP thru efficiency rather than increase in compression. They look good but I haven't miced them to see if they need some honing or whatever and need to find my inside micrometers. There are plenty of IA's around to lean on for help. I can't find a cam yet but they must be around. The old cam is red tagged and has two really bad lobes. I guess it could be welded up and re-ground. If I can find the cam specs I can have one ground from a blank. The rest is just following directions.
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  18. #2058
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    I know it's done with reground cams. If it were mine I would install a new cam and lifters. Remember you have to split the case to repair them. Cylinders you can pull.
    N1PA

  19. #2059

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    The engine is all torn down now. I also need to get someone to check the case for me. I'm guessing the case is OK since the crank was good and no sign of irregular wear. Certainly new valves and lifters. The wear on the two cam lobes was the only thing wrong with the cam so I think since the cam bearings being OK the case should be fine there too.

    What electronic ignition are you using in your cub?
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  20. #2060
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    I'm using Pmags with automotive spark plugs. http://www.emagair.com/
    N1PA

  21. #2061
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skywalker View Post
    He started off with converted Fit motors, no turbo, 110hp. With his experience in gearboxes to this point, maybe his first pass at normally aspirated Hondas is sound. Some Searey owners seem happy with theirs. But now he's off again with turbo pressure. I wouldn't follow, maybe in 5 years.
    Those few Searey owners that have them all seem to have been price driven to purchase it. The ones that use a Rotax wouldn't buy a Viking for any amount of money. I'm sure the truth lies in the middle, but historically that guy doesn't have a good track record.

  22. #2062

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    Farmboy,

    Yes Sir...seems to be a pattern developing here...price is certainly draw for the Viking. I am drawn to the Honda engine for their reliability. We have a 2010 CRV that I run the pants off every chance I get and it's getting close to 200K and the only thing that has been replaced was the clutch on the air conditioner. The R engine is a jewel as best I can tell...it's the gear drive I have questions about. Maybe a belt drive but that's not the logical answer for speed reduction at the near 200 hp range...at least in my little brain.

    Sky,

    There are a lot of the Pmags in my aviation neighborhood and all speak well of it. I just looked at their site and it appears they have the "P200" on the market which is their experimental mag. It's not clear to me whether it replaces 2 mags or maybe I need to read it again. I'm certainly in favor of auto plugs. There are dozens of very modern electronic ignition systems on the auto market that are programmable and "cockpit" adjustable which makes them attractive. Price is also attractive. I have a single drive dual mag system that I could use a Pmag in the hole but still need an additional external ignition. It seems simpler and cheaper to have a pair of electronic ignitions with a traditional left/right both switch with a common mag pickup on the starter ring. IF...IF you can believe their advertising they put out consistent high voltage and with programmable timing they produce more efficient fuel burn, more HP and less fuel burn.
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  23. #2063
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    Low,

    I looked, it appears that the P200 is for 6 cylinder engines. Is your engine an 0-320-H which uses a single dual mag? If so the Pmag would not be a choice. The dual mags are not as numerous as single mags so it is unlikely that a Pmag will be made for your engine. Perhaps one of the other electronic ignition companies would be a better fit for your engine. One thing to keep in mind is that (I think) the Pmag is the only one out there which generates it's own electricity. I have found that this is a big safety factor.
    N1PA

  24. #2064

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    I do have the H engine but I though maybe I cound run a PMag and a second ignition source to run off my second battery...no generator/alternator on board. I like that PMag is self powered as well.
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  25. #2065
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    Perhaps you could use a Pmag in the magneto hole and a lightspeed for the other ignition. http://lightspeed-aero.com/ I'm not certain but this may work.
    N1PA

  26. #2066

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    That's pretty much what I had in mind.
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  27. #2067

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    Could be progress...ready to start on aileron and flap hinges and operation rods.

    2017-12-15 02.54.42.jpg

    I built the aileron operating stuff for both the right and left wings at the same time since I wanted them to be a matched pair due to the droop option. Need create the flap system most of which comes out of my little pea brain and it will be very much like the Patrol system I've seen but will be operated with an overhead flap handle rather than cables down to the floor. I think that willl be a better system and won't be in the way of my left arm rest I built into the fuselage which contains the trim, throttle and intercom/XM radio control and probably the controls for my auto pilot once I get that figured out.
    Last edited by Lowrider; 12-15-2017 at 01:42 AM.
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  28. #2068

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    Just saw this on the J-3 site and thought since I haven't TIGed for awhile... I'll take a look. It has some reminders and tips so it might be worth looking at if your getting ready to TIG something. Once you get there you can find other tips and tricks. Hope it helps!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Is47-VwkyNg
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  29. #2069

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    Well, mid December seems to be a bad time for my hands. I was drilling out a rivet with a 5/16" bit and the bit slipped off the rivet and went about 1 1/4" into my right hand between the index finger and thumb and bleed like a stuck pig. Fortunately, it didn't hit anything of real value except some meat. I had my suture kit handy and two quick stitches stopped the bleeding for the most part. 6 days later I took the stitches are out and other than being sore everything seems to be working as designed but it may be awhile before I'm ready to grip a rivet gun. Guess I was just meant to relax and enjoy the holidays!!

    Merry Christmas to everyone and the hope for a healthy and happy New Year!!
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  30. #2070
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    Merry Christmas Low,
    You have reminded me of when I was a young squirt working for Sikorsky drilling holes on the special production group building S-61 helicopters for the Army and Marines to carry the President. One of my co-hole drillers who had a drawl from the hills of Kentucky was holding a part in one hand while drilling with the other. Drilled right through his finger. Funny how little things which happened many years ago come to mind with a small trigger. I don't think that he was using a 5/16" bit though.
    N1PA

  31. #2071

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    Long long ago a friend of mine was trimming the edge of a counter top with a router. He set the router down on a saw horse and bumped the leg of the saw horse and the router was falling off...he grabbed the bottom of the router while the bit was barely turning but it sunk into his hand...I'll spare everyone the rest of the details but he had to undergo several reconstructive surgeries and he still doesn't have full use of the hand. Tools are dangerous...be careful out there!!!

    Back to airplanes...maybe some of the folks building Bearhawk Patrols can tell me if there is a fairing that goes out from the fuselage and covers the gap between the inside edge of the flap and the fuselage? I will have about a 1" gap, maybe a little more between the inside edge of the flap and the fuselage...should it be faired on the top?

    Happy and healthy New Year to everyone!!
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  32. #2072

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    No Patrol builders out there? I have drawings for the LSA but I put the missing flaps on my wings...'cause...well...they need them IMHO. Most of the info I needed is on line somewhere but I can't find any indication if a fairing is appropriate between the fuselage and the inboard edge of the flaps. Maybe there is someone out there with a super cub like plane that can tell me if there is an advantage to reducing the drag at that point or if it just doesn't make a big difference.
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  33. #2073

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    Some Patrol builders have fabricated a fairing that goes along the wing/fuselage junction, and extends back to cover the top/inside edge of the flap. The flap just snugs up against it when fully retracted. I haven't seen anything on the lower side - it's basically not needed from what I can tell.
    Jim Parker
    '65 Champion 7ECA - Flying
    ?? Bearhawk Patrol - Building

  34. #2074

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    Thanks Jim!!

    That's exactly what I am considering. The reason I'm thinking about it now is I will need to weld in some tabs on the fuselage longeron to screw the fairing into since the fabric cover would not be adequate to hold the fairing by it's self. I'm thinking of making a fairing out of 0.025 alum with a couple ridges rolled into it to add some stiffness and maybe some rubber under the fairing so where the fabric on the top of the flap rubs on it, it won't be damaged.

    Sounds like it's an optional thing but it seems like a good idea. Any other thoughts?

    Thanks again Jim!
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  35. #2075

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    I'm a big fan of MSD ignitions, totally reliable for me so far and they give good spark control and a massive spark. I'm thinking of using one for my 0-320 with crank pickup, maybe the one below:
    MSD Ignition 6425 Details

    6-Series Digital Ignition Controls
    MSD's Digital 6AL Ignition has the same footprint as the original 6AL yet incorporates a sleeker, lower profile and relocated rev limiter. The limiter is on top of the housing for easy access to the two rotary dials that control the rev limit in 100 RPM increments. To simplify installation and keep things tidy, all wiring is routed out one end of the ignition box through a sealed connector. Inside the Digital 6AL Ignition, a microprocessor manages and monitors every firing while high-efficiency circuits make more power using less current.
    Features Compatible on 4, 6, or 8-cylinder engines with 12-volt negative ground electrical systems
    Same bolt pattern as traditional 6AL but with low-profile housing
    Delivers 530 volts to the coil with up to 135mJ of spark energy per firing
    Efficient internals draw less current to produce more power
    Set rev limit in 100 RPM increments with two rotary dials
    All wires exit on same side via sealed/locked connector
    Accepts trigger inputs from breaker points, amplifiers, and magnetic pickups
    Includes wiring harness, necessary installation components, and vibration mounts
    Built-in LED for system checks
    CARB E.O Number D-40-43
    Specifications
    Spark Energy: 135 to 145 mJ
    Primary Voltage: 520 to 540
    Secondary Voltage: 45,000
    Spark Series Duration: 20° Crankshaft Rotation
    RPM Range: 15,000 with 14.4 volts
    Required Voltage: 12 to 15 (7-volt start)
    Current Draw: 0.7 amp per 1,000 RPM
    Size: 8" L x 4" W x 1.825" H
    Weight: 1.7 pounds

    It looks like I can put together a fully redundant system for under $800. These can be synced or sequential for additional spark to the second set of plugs, i. e. fire the top plug then micro seconds later fire the bottom plug giving additional fire to ensure complete combustion and hopefully a smidge more power. My only concern with the system is 2 parallel systems will pull 3.4 amps which may tax my ignition battery or require a larger one than I had originally intended since I won't have an alternator.

    Has anyone else used MSD or similar ignitions with an 0-320/0-360?
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  36. #2076
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    Low, You sure come up with some different ideas. How will the distributor mount to your engine?

    Since you are not installing an alternator, how are you generating electricity? I found that it is possible to just use a large battery and charge it overnight. However I have also found that it is wise to have some form of electricity generation on board.
    N1PA

  37. #2077

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    Hey Sky!

    I hear things have warmed up back there...at least for awhile.

    Always thinking...I know that's dangerous.

    No distributor, it is triggered by a crank trigger using a magnetic pickup with the magnets mounted on the starter ring. It's not clear to me yet whether you can use one pickup to feed both or do you need a pickup for each. The MSD units provides 20 degrees of spark at 6000 rpm so at cruise speed of 2350 to 2500 rpm that would seem to be plenty of fire on each plug which of course would be a quality auto plug.

    I'm looking for a more efficient and economical way to provide ignition...that's all. I can't be the first person with this thought. MSD also makes a fully programmable unit that hooks to a PC but I don't think that's necessary for a simple Lycoming.

    I'm following your lead with a "no alternator" system and I suppose by the time I'm ready to buy, battery technology will have improved to the point where my concern about battery weight may not be as big an issue as I think...there I go thinking again.
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  38. #2078
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    Yes it did get up into the 50s but dropped today. 25 right now headed down. We had rain yesterday which washed all of the snow away and the ice on the lake looks unsafe.
    Put the cars out in the driveway for a Maine car wash.

    I did run with no alternator for several years but after running the battery down scared myself. Landed with a dead battery, the engine quit and I had to paddle to the shore.
    So now I have a wind driven Kubota Dynamo which puts out up to 15.5 amps. Total installed weight 5 pounds.
    N1PA

  39. #2079

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    WOW!! good thing you were over the lake!! We have lots of water here but I'm not going to floats right away so a dead battery is not an option for me.

    I believe we talked about a Kubota alternator once before and I looked at my BX1500 which I use as a mower and it's alternator is a baby so it would work just fine. Don't recall how you mounted it though. It seems there was ducted air under the belly...am I close?
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  40. #2080
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    The engine didn't stop until after I landed and the rpm dropped below about 900.

    Look at this thread starting at post #17. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...Solar-Chargers
    Pictures of mine are at post #154.
    N1PA

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