Generator for pre-heat?
- Thread starter spinner2
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Thanks, that is what I thought.
Thanks, that makes me comfortable with my choice. I use the procedure that I always turn off the main breaker from the street before starting the generator and never turning it back on when the generator is running and plugged in.
This is a valid idea. It would make things a bit more complicated though. I looked at this idea and it seems as though the fuel efficiency would not really be much different. The larger unit has a conservation mode for when using less power. Also, these 3000s only produce 120 volts. I have a 240 volt plug for a welder which I use to plug in the generator. This allows me to use both 120 volt circuits in the house from one generator source.
The single unit will make it easy for my wife to operate by herself should the need arise. Simplicity is the key.
spinner2
MEMBER
Montana
The electrical equipment manufacturers make a switch specifically for generator use that isolates the incoming wires from the power company when the generator is in use. And the opposite is true when using power company power. I have one made by Square D. This makes it foolproof for someone not that familiar with how these things work. And safer for everyone.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
I am aware of this type of switch and agree that it is a good idea. In my case it would require relocating the generator to an inconvenient location or an extremely expensive rewiring job.
sierra bravo
Registered User
Extension cords work great. Make one using appropriate gauge wire for the required length. Mine's made especially for my application. Simple.
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skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
In this case an extension chord would need to be 150-200 feet long to reach the main power source. The current extension is only 10 feet. I am looking into whether there is a remote sensing device that will control an isolation switch. Perhaps there is an isolation switch which has a sensor which can determine which side of the main breaker has the AC power? Did I ask this correctly? If I can't find something that will work automatically in my application, I'll just continue to throw the breaker manually.
sierra bravo
Registered User
It sounds like you need to have a conversation with a local electrical contractor.
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Agreed, I just like to have an idea of what is going on and what is available before I do.
ha ha...that reminds me of parking the truck and heading into the white mountains north of Fairbanks...on snowmobiles. when we got back, at 20 or 40 below, we needed a reliable, fast warm up because we would be cold as heck. ours wasn't a kit like that though, just a weed burner on a tank, a length of stovepipe with an elbow, put it on the ground under the engine, and let it heat while we loaded up the snowmobiles. it is very effective, but i don't know if it would be a very good idea for an airplane. i like the new lightweight generators even if you have to wait quite a while for the oil to heat up.
Traveling a couple of weeks ago it got a bit cold for this Okie so Reiff Turbo XP (6-100w cylinder bands and 2-100w sump pads) driven by a 1000w Honda Inverter produced 105 degree Oil and 130 degree cylinders in 2.5 hours with the preheat started at 18 degrees OAT. Only other device I add is a 15 foot cable lock...
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Very good point to guard against an incomplete pre-heat and potential thermal shock.Next time note the oil temp drop upon start-up. The probe temp and the sump reservoir temp is usually different. Just something to consider.
Since this was the first time I used the Honda, I had the engine monitor set to hold on the oil temp and watched it. There was a 4 degree drop before the temp started climbing and within 30 seconds of start up it was up 3 degrees which told me I had a pretty good pre-heat but it still cooled about 5 degrees when cycling the prop at run-up but that too came back up quickly. I think the only way you can easily not have to heat for an extended period in (our, not your) kind of cold conditions is with a combination system like the Reiff.
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
Except at -20F the propane quits working...so you need to warm the propane to warm the truck...
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
I always pre-heated the Honda 1000 to get it to start. I was involved in a moose survey once where they were using a Honda 3500 generator to pre-heat several aircraft. The first morning, that generator wouldn't start.....after a LOT of pulls, at about -30. Drug it inside a heated tent, and warmed it just a bit, and voila. I wasn't involved in the generator drama, I was the first airborne that day, with a catalytic in the engine room overnight. Every night after that, they kept the generator inside the heated tent.
But, the cold weather kit is ESSENTIAL, in my opinion. As noted here, you can lug around boxes, etc, but if the breather freezes up and you aren't right there to shut it down it'll get REALLY expensive. I can introduce you to gent who figured that out the hard way.
Great little generators, and I'd second the vote for Honda power equipment being great stuff. I owned a Honda snow blower for a couple decades. That poor thing was about the most abused and neglected piece of equipment I've ever owned. Parked all summer and ignored. First big snow, it's "Aw ****, I forgot to pickle the thing and change oil.....oh well, snow's deep, go for it." And, it ALWAYS fired up on the second pull.
MTV
nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
The Honda Generator cold WX kits.
http://www.babbittshondageneratorhouse.com/category/145/cold-weather-kits
http://www.babbittshondageneratorhouse.com/category/145/cold-weather-kits
mvivion
SPONSOR
Bozeman,MT
And, you have to KEEP heating the propane cylinder, at least a little, to keep the propane gasified.
My first house in FAI had propane stove and water heater. I bonded a small silicone heat pad to the side of the cylinder, and plugged it in during cold weather. Just that little bit of heat on one spot was enough to gasify the propane from it's liquid state, and keep things working.
Gotta love cold weather.
MTV
Good question. The temps don't get much below -40 at my cabin and the propane has always worked fine. Maybe something to do with the length of the line and how much of that line is inside a warm space? The more surprising thing is how the gasoline generator that I have there to preheat the diesel generator in those temps won't start but the diesel generator fires right up.
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nanook
MEMBER
northern alaska
Maybe you need a new thermometer... My Paloma hot water heater ran on propane and would not fire off at -30F. The 100lb tank was outside. I had quite a variety of heating methods for it. The smaller 5lb tanks won't gas at -20. The longer they are cold soaked the worse it gets. We don't have an overnight cold and then the sun comes up and raises the day temps. In Fairbanks on the 20th of Dec., we have 3hrs & 42min of very low angle sunlight.
It has more to do with surface area of the LPG in the tank. Propane will gas off down to -40, just at a slower rate. Thats why the 1000lb pig that supplies your house will still deliver enough to run furnaces and water tanks at -30,35, but that little 5 pounder is pretty much useless below -20. And BTW, all the house tanks here have electric heaters that strap to them in the winter.
Here's some cold weather propane info. I think my success probably has more to do with low demand than anything. And I use two tanks connected on an automatic switch so when one's pressure drops the switch flips to the other tank. Frost on my tanks is common in winter. Two winters ago I got up one morning, turned on the stove to make coffee, and looked at the thermometer to see -42. I knew the temp had dropped that night but this was colder than expected. That evolved into the -38 truck starting episode I described earlier. Of course we had to ride 25 miles to the truck first so imagine how thrilled wife and dog were about that. Things we do for fun. http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/bulletins/d4500147t012.pdf
I've had a brand new Paloma in a box for about 15 years. Suburban told me I needed to run a dedicated tank with 3/8" line because my 1/4" main line wouldn't transport enough gas let alone be able to share with other appliances. I didn't need an on-demand hot water heater that bad so in the box it remains.
http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/bulletins/d4500147t012.pdfI've had a brand new Paloma in a box for about 15 years. Suburban told me I needed to run a dedicated tank with 3/8" line because my 1/4" main line wouldn't transport enough gas let alone be able to share with other appliances. I didn't need an on-demand hot water heater that bad so in the box it remains.
