Hello from San Rafael, California... and a question about supercub type planes

[afbarr]

I just joined about 2 minutes ago and wanted to quickly introduce myself (and ask a question). I am a student pilot with about 15 hours of flight time in a Cessna 150 and passed my FAA written a couple of months ago. I am looking forward to getting my private pilots license perhaps by the end of next year.

I'd like to buy a used airplane shortly after getting my license and have been trying to learn about the different options (Cessnas, Pipers, Cirrus, Diamond, Beechcraft, Vans, etc.). But recently I've noticed a ton of covers in the various flying magazines featuring the supercubs and their clones, etc. Living in Northern California, where can you land these to make getting one worth while? I realize that this is probably a silly question for those in the know already but I really have no clue about these planes and who/where they are flown. Are there any good books or other sites that explain how/where to fly these planes? Exactly where are you allowed to land these? Are there any such places in my area (within say 500 miles of San Francisco?) that I can land one? Where do you go to learn to fly them?

Apologies for all the questions but I'm really excited about these planes (I love backpacking/fly fishing).

Cheers,
Aaron

[Big Ben]

First of all, Welcome Aaron!

At this point in your flying life, fly anything you can and as much as you can afford. Flying a taildragger will force you to becpme a better pilot. I flew a J-3 with a 65HP that i restored for a few years and i learned a lot about energy management and how to fly with very few gauges. Burning fuel in the "little" cub was the best training for bigger planes. I now have a super cub and love it! I just returned from the Cub Fly in in Lompoc yesterday down on the central coast. There were 4 SC there and many other cub variants.

I dont know what your schedule looks like, but here are two semi-local events:

1) Saturday 7/14 in Modesto KMOD (78nm on 091 degrees) our local CAF squadron has a pancake breakfast (I'll buy breakfast and take you for a hop)
or
2) Saturday 7/21 in Colusa CA O08 (74nm on 003 degrees) they are having the Colusa Old Tyme Fly In (I'd buy breakfast here, but it is free for pilots) Again many tail draggers and cubs. I am sure we can get you in a few planes

Keep flying and be safe!

Ben

[NimpoCub]

Second of all, Welcome Aaron!


Your examples: (Cessnas, Pipers, Cirrus, Diamond, Beechcraft, Vans, etc.). These all are "good at" different things. Thing to do before you buy something is to accurately define your mission. You want a go-fast airplane? You want to haul lots of weight or pass's? You want to land & take off short? You want to do aerobatics? (etc...)

Once you decide what you (mostly) want to do w/your airplane, the choices will narrow down & you can learn & fly them. Just like a car or house, the first one will not likely be the perfect one.

Go with Big Ben, but don't be swayed until you define your mission!
Of course, there's nothing better than a cub!

[afbarr]

Hi Big Ben,

Thank you for the invites and breakfast offer, especially the offer to ride in some of these planes! My wife just had a baby in June so I'm not going anywhere anytime soon it seems. But maybe I can take you up on your offer in a few months if it is still open. What is a CAF squadron? Is there a website for these supercub fly ins? How do you find out about them?

Cheers,
Aaron

First of all, Welcome Aaron!

At this point in your flying life, fly anything you can and as much as you can afford. Flying a taildragger will force you to becpme a better pilot. I flew a J-3 with a 65HP that i restored for a few years and i learned a lot about energy management and how to fly with very few gauges. Burning fuel in the "little" cub was the best training for bigger planes. I now have a super cub and love it! I just returned from the Cub Fly in in Lompoc yesterday down on the central coast. There were 4 SC there and many other cub variants.

I dont know what your schedule looks like, but here are two semi-local events:

1) Saturday 7/14 in Modesto KMOD (78nm on 091 degrees) our local CAF squadron has a pancake breakfast (I'll buy breakfast and take you for a hop)
or
2) Saturday 7/21 in Colusa CA O08 (74nm on 003 degrees) they are having the Colusa Old Tyme Fly In (I'd buy breakfast here, but it is free for pilots) Again many tail draggers and cubs. I am sure we can get you in a few planes

Keep flying and be safe!

Ben

[afbarr]

Hi NimpoCub,

Well, whatever my mission, it will need to involve my wife, 3 year-old-son and 4 week old daughter so I need a 4 seater. Most likely starting two year from now after i get my pilots license and am ready to make the plunge in aircraft ownership. I guess I would need to add another two or three years on top of that if I have to build one. I know that sort of limits the supercub thing (since most are two seaters) but I was reading about the Bearhawk last night and so that got me excited. And I was trying to find more info on the Mackey SQ4 but the www.supercub.com site didn't really have much on the 4-seat version of the Mackey SQ2. The Bearhawk and SQ4 look like decent 4-seater supercubs though.

I don't envision seeing myself flying more than 1000 miles from where I am. The longest trip I may ever make is from SF area to El Paso TX where I have some family. I think I can do two 4 hour trips in one day to get somewhere but that's about it for the next several years. I've been looking at the Diamond DX40 and the Vans RV-10 and more recently Piper Comanches which of course aren't STOL aircraft. I'm 41 years old so as much as aerobatics or high speed short trips would be fun, I'm really getting into it for the ability to go places with my family for weekends, long weekends and occasional one or two weeks trips for vacation. We like skiing and fly fishing and backpacking and visiting interesting places (such as Sedona, Bend Oregon, Jackson Hole, Yellowstone, etc.). Most places would be to small public GA airports I imagine but I'd like the option of going somewhere wild and remote for some camping if at all possible.

Looking at the specs for the Bearhawk it seems some of the benefit of STOL is lost when carrying 4 people and camping supplies. Is this really the case?

Second of all, Welcome Aaron!


Your examples: (Cessnas, Pipers, Cirrus, Diamond, Beechcraft, Vans, etc.). These all are "good at" different things. Thing to do before you buy something is to accurately define your mission. You want a go-fast airplane? You want to haul lots of weight or pass's? You want to land & take off short? You want to do aerobatics? (etc...)

Once you decide what you (mostly) want to do w/your airplane, the choices will narrow down & you can learn & fly them. Just like a car or house, the first one will not likely be the perfect one.

Go with Big Ben, but don't be swayed until you define your mission!
Of course, there's nothing better than a cub!

[aktango58]

Aaron,

Welcome! Don't let us scare you, we are rough and gruff, but mostly good guys.

It is very cool you are learning to fly while starting a family. Tough to do that for lots of folks, financially and physically.

The cub is NOT the plane for 1,000 mile trips. It is not a plane to plan on taking the family out for vacation. Some of us use it for that, (I take Lyn to our cabin 100miles away), but most of us have the plane for another purpose, and use it because we have it.

There is no better reward than learning in your own aircraft. You have a great opportunity to choose what ever you want. Another person was asking about types of aircraft recently, and a couple of member comments seem appropriate:

Most flying is done alone. Families are busy, so it is not often that you can all get time to go.

purchase an inexpensive flying plane you love to fly, then rent the big fast one for family trips.

Build; fly; the two often exclude each other

Long trip legs with wife/children is not a reasonable plan, (trust me on this one). For your sanity, don't plan over 2 hours or you all will be miserable



Look for small strips, especially if they have grass, for cubs. Think of cubs as the Jeep folks of aviation.

As far as a Mackey plane, I can not imagine anything from them not being great.

[WWhunter]

aktango58 could not have said it any better! Your perception on what you will be doing with the plane and what you actually end up doing with it are generally not the same. My first ever flight was in a Super Cub on floats. Needless to say I was hooked and have wanted a Super Cub ever since. I started in a 150 which I quickly sold for a 172 thinking I would fly it to gain hours and then sell for something bigger to haul the family to distant locals. The truth to it was I really didn't need anything bigger than the 172. By the time I was able to afford a bigger plane the kids had all grown and left the nest. I picked up a Champ to use for beating around the 'bush' and found out I could do nearly as much with the 172 and do it with more room and stability. Is the 172 a flashy bush plane....no, but it gets the job done for me.
What I am saying is most small planes with fulfill the average mission of the majority of pilots. Its when you start flying into those short mountain strips and beating around the back woods where you really 'need' a Super Cub. But then 'wanting' one is a different story.
For the mission you described I would think a good 'ol 182, 180/185, Maule, or similar aircraft would fit your mission. Good load haulers and can still get you in and out of those back country strips.
Those kids grow a LOT faster than a person realizes and the smaller 4-seaters are limited in useful load when all the seats are full. You'll be able to do it but your flight legs will be shorter due to limited fuel. Good Luck and welcome to the site.
Keith

[Speedo]

Hi NimpoCub,

Well, whatever my mission, it will need to involve my wife, 3 year-old-son and 4 week old daughter so I need a 4 seater.

Maybe, maybe not. You would be surprised at the amount of flying you will do alone!

[two-12sfernow]

Aaron,
I'm just up the road in Novato @ Gnoss Field, come by sometime and take a look at the PA-12 project I have here in the shop. It will be going to my home shop soon to make room but you are welcome to see it there too. My -12 will hopefully be gone long before you are ready but thay are among the great Cub series. You will get straight up advice from this group and few are bashful with an opinion.
I think you are in a good position of needing a while before getting your own plane cause as others have said, you might find the need will change a bunch. I have had 6 seat aircraft that burned gads of fuel to carry me around as a party of 1 80% of the time. We have a few cubs around the area and you'll find them to generally be owned by a good bunch of folks. You might need to be careful, a buddy of mine has a J-3 project he is happy to show off and the bug could bite you hard.
Check out the Petaluma pilots group (PAPA), they have monthly airport open house days with their A/C on display http://papapetaluma.org/ and we have a group here at Gnoss that holds a monthly breakfast http://www.gnossfield.org/ .
All right here in your backyard. I am medically grounded for now or I would get you up and show you the places I have been off airport around here, sadly most would be a bad idea today unless you are a fan of enforcement actions (too many people and vineyards suck as landing sites).
Welcome to the aviation addiction,
Ken

[afbarr]

Hi Ken,

I may actually be stopping by to join the GFCA this Saturday during the monthly breakfast at Gnoss Field. If you will be around, please let me know so I can introduce myself in person. I went to a GFCA meeting several months ago at Ted Newman's invitation; the talk that day was given by Aaron Singer on seaplanes (makes me want to get a seaplane endorsement after I get my PPL!).

I am training at the Petaluma Pilot Training Center with Peggy (in case you know her -- she's one of their CFIIs). I have another lesson there this Saturday at noon actually. I asked her about supercubs during my last lesson last Saturday and she said that those are actually her favorite kind of airplane to fly which piqued my interest even more.

So yes, I would love to see your plane and the other J-3 project if that's possible. I'm curious to see them up close as so far I have only seen them in pictures. I joined the EAA several months ago but haven't gone to any meetings. I know I just missed one last week I think at Gnoss Field. I know I should make it to at least one of these before the summer is over.

Cheers,
Aaron

Aaron,
I'm just up the road in Novato @ Gnoss Field, come by sometime and take a look at the PA-12 project I have here in the shop. It will be going to my home shop soon to make room but you are welcome to see it there too. My -12 will hopefully be gone long before you are ready but thay are among the great Cub series. You will get straight up advice from this group and few are bashful with an opinion.
I think you are in a good position of needing a while before getting your own plane cause as others have said, you might find the need will change a bunch. I have had 6 seat aircraft that burned gads of fuel to carry me around as a party of 1 80% of the time. We have a few cubs around the area and you'll find them to generally be owned by a good bunch of folks. You might need to be careful, a buddy of mine has a J-3 project he is happy to show off and the bug could bite you hard.
Check out the Petaluma pilots group (PAPA), they have monthly airport open house days with their A/C on display http://papapetaluma.org/ and we have a group here at Gnoss that holds a monthly breakfast http://www.gnossfield.org/ .
All right here in your backyard. I am medically grounded for now or I would get you up and show you the places I have been off airport around here, sadly most would be a bad idea today unless you are a fan of enforcement actions (too many people and vineyards suck as landing sites).
Welcome to the aviation addiction,
Ken

[afbarr]

Hi Ken,

I would love to see both your plane and the j-3 whenever that's convenient for you. Actually, I'll be at the GFCA meeting/breakfast this Saturday at 9am in case you also attend those. Let me know if you are going so I can find you there and introduce myself in person. I went to one before a few months ago at the invitation of Ted Newman. It was the one where Aaron Singer gave a talk on seaplanes. I'm planning to join the GFCA at this next meeting actually. I'm familiar with PAPA as Petaluma Municipal Airport is the airport I take flying lessons out of. I fly with Petaluma Pilot Training Center/Magnon Aviation (my instructor is Peggy -- she's one of their CFIIs which you may know).

Sorry to hear you are medically grounded. Can you fly LSA or does a bad medical ground you regardless?

Cheers,
Aaron

[Dave Roberts]

Aaron,

Nice to see you are thinking about traveling with your family. As someone already said, "Define you mission". I have a Bearhawk and a Super Cub. I started with a T-Craft, then built the Bearhawk, because like you I have a family that wanted to go along. I have three kids so I put a fifth seat in the baggage area. By the time I got the Bearhawk built I only had about three years that #3 fit in the fifth seat. But my oldest wasn't quite as interested in going as much so that wasn't to big of a problem. I can count the times that we all went somewhere on my two hands. Four of us still like to go somewhere when we can get away. As far as stol performance the Bearhawk is great. I didn't ever get the cruise that some seem to get. Mine has the 540 in it. I'm cheap so usually cruise at about 50% power. It seems like trying to go faster really get's expensive.

The Bearhawk just wasn't a ranch airplane so I bought a Super Cub. It's not fast but it sure is fun. And also a really good ranch airplane. Both airplanes rarely see pavement. I rarely land the Bearhawk off strip at gross weight. Not that it can't, just that I don't need to. When you mention flying places with your family you would probably be landing on improved strips. My experience with taking the family somewhere, it would have been better off with a faster airplane. For my mission especially where I ended up with a Super Cub, I would have been better off to have gone with a faster four place. For me the ideal two airplanes would be a Super Cub and an Rv-10. Probably won't happen unless I find a money tree.

Don't get in a hurry. If you want a cross country airplane try to get a ride in the one that you are interested in(or type) cross country. A demonstration ride around the patch doesn't cut it.

Dave

[i-fly-low]

aaron im new to the site also but let me give my two cents anyway....first try to make it to colusa i grew up east of S.F. and move up there after highschool GREAT place and a few spots to land along the sac river also if you go say hi th the guys at Valley Air its a crop dusting service on the feild and some damn nice guys. as far as gnoss feild goes at the very least have your instructor take you there to shoot a few landings i cant remember runway heading as its been ten years or more but landing to the north with some funky wind is great practice! long trips with the wife and kids sorry but i had to laugh im not married but my girl friend made me divert this past winter one hour into an hour and fourtyfive minute flight, yeah should have told here to hold it but well im sure all can guess how that weekend would have gone. i just got my first plane half pa-12 halfpa-18 got it in montana and flew it to arkansas LONG flight not what i would call a cross country machine, but fun! there are a lot of spots in the foothills look around oroville and east of there where you can fly in and camp/fish for the week end .... good luck and keep the rubber side down (atleast for now)

[afbarr]

Dave, thanks for the info on the Bearhawk. I found another thread here that posed a similar question that I did. Sounds like I should look into the Cessna 180, Maule, and Stinsons as well. I think you right on target with the supercub + rv-10 if you could have two planes. I sort of came to the same conclusion but, like you, my budget puts the rv-10 out my range for the foreseeable future!

i-fly-low, thanks for the tips on Colusa and Oroville -- I'll have to look at a topo of those areas and see if I can see these places to land. Yeah, 4 hours in a plane might be pushing it. I guess a faster plane helps in this regard (that rv-10 sure looks awesome -- at 200 mph, you could get halfway to El Paso from SF in 2.5 hours (ignoring winds))!

I think I just need to go to some EAA meetings and see and maybe sit in these planes to get an idea of what they are like. When I get my PPL next year (fingers crossed), I'll try to check out in a bunch of planes and start taking family on trips to see how that all works out. Where on earth can you rent a Bearhawk or Maule or c180 though!?

Cheers,
Aaron