Casco Bay, Maine fatal accident. (ps - not cliff)

[OVEREASYGUY]

http://www.therepublic.com/view/stor...se-Plane-Crash

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...24X73746&key=1

I met Dr. Hanson a few times - he was a great guy. Saddly he passed away last sunday.

I have very limited knowledge of the situation but from what I have heard so far this is my take on things!

It was a Stinson with a gas selector of left/right - no Both setting. When it was hauled out of the ocean one gas cap was missing? Speculation is perhaps the gas blew out and that tank went empty and since he was over water he freaked out and forgot to switch to the other tank once the engine began to sputter? It's also possible he simply ran the tank dry and since he was over water when the engine began to sputter he just freaked out and forgot the most basic of all things - switch tanks. The NTSB will get to the bottom of it -but since the engine was rebuilt 200 hours ago - I doubt it was anything major.

a witness said the plan was at about 40 feet and nosedived into the water - sounds like a stall to me. Bashed his head all in since he had no helmet, Also because the airplane had no shoulder harness. No life jacket either. A helicopter dropped a life jacket but he was so messed up from the head wound he drown.
i'm told he did manage to get the life jacket on but could not inflate it. He was only 100 yards from shore.

In the news paper picture you can see him about 100 feet away from the sinking airplane. I sure would have stayed with the airplane until it was gone - they say it took 20 seconds to sink. I'd rather be standing on it for 10 seconds and collect my thoughts and get ready for a swim - than to immediately go after a lifejacket floating a couple hundred feet away. a near buy fishing boat on the way to rescue can cover alot of ground in 10 seconds! Just stay with the airplane and collect your thoughts and get ready to swim once it's down! Heck I imagine in some situations it might be in 10 feet of water - so once it hits bottom you might be able to stand on it and wait a few for a rescue boat!

There seam to be lots of little things which if done diffently might have lead to a much better outcome. Probably most imporant was NOT stalling the airplane and nosediving it into the ocean. Why do so many pilots forget to fly the airplane! When you are over water - you can only count on YOU to save YOU. Don't think anyone is necessarily going to come right away. If you bash yourself all up landing in the water you are going to be in a bad way!

It's so sad to think that just a few tweeks of one thing or another could have kept him alive! first just fliping the gas selector might have solved the problem. There aren't that many things we can do if the engine quits - I sure would start flipping things if mine quit! Gas selector, mags, pump the primer! Second accepting the fact that you are landing in the water and just making a nice landing would have made it easier for him to swim. Staying with the airplane 10 seconds might have let a boat get closer. Installing shoulder harnesses and buying a helmet might have lead to a way better outcome too.

This one really bothers me and i'll soak up all I can on it and hopefully learn something from it. All of the things I have done to my airplane would have helped tremendously if I'd been in his situation. I was just over that area with my son landing on Richmond Island a few weeks back. We both had life jackets on and I was always within glide distance of shore.

So for those of you who don't yet have helmets - I sure recommend getting one. Cessna did some studies and determined an alarming number of pilots would be alive today if they just had a helmet. If you don't have a shoulder harness - you should get it! The helmets are painfully expensive ($325) but heck buy a bike helmet at walmart for $25 - anything is better than nothing!

I also installed a fuel selector which is Left-Both-Right & I always keep it on both.

You never know when your time is up. It's just so sad when something stupid ends a life. Like Text messaging while driving - another example taking a strong hold in the country today & ending lots of young teen lives!

I also spent a ton of money putting on Dakota's slotted wings - they are truly amazing. I don't know why so many wealther aviators doen't load their airplanes up with such safety features! I also put a complete cross brace above my head - I see lots of cubs without it - they say if you crash in the trees the wings can crush you. My wings are about impossible to stall - they just mush down - bring you down like a helicopter. I know there is no end to what one can spend on safety features but I sure see alot of pilots I know can afford a helmet who chose not to fly with one! I don't get it!

Well I'll keep you all posted on updates to this accident. Fly safe and have a nice weekend.

Cliff Dow in Maine

[OVEREASYGUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JsSbGdIDzE

you've all seen this one probably. It's NOT from the casco bay accident. He is on the verge of a stall the whole way down! He needs to go back to pilot school! I would think at 200 feet above the water - he should have given up starting the engine point the nose down and gain lots of speed - flare and just hold it off the water as long as he could! They got pretty messed up from that hard water landing. At a couple hundred feet from water or land - if your engine is not coming back to life - forget it - just focus on landing!! Fly the plane, fly the plane! I sure hope I get it right if my engine ever quits on me.

Cliff Dow in Maine

[sierra bravo]

My condolences to those close to the pilot lost.

In the video it looks like that pilot did all he could to get over the trees and barely made it. Probably the best he could have done.

"Safety Corner" by Cliff. What a concept.

[OVEREASYGUY]

At the 30 second mark on that youtube video he's past the trees and flying along the lake shore - I would have at the 30 second mark just pointed the nose down, gain speed, flare and hold it off the water as long as I could. Everyone should practice Diving at the runway and landing. I think in an engine out situation that might be a good idea-- just to make sure you don't stall it (and i'm talking about lake or field landings - not trees).
I think about my 5 year old alot these days so I'm trying harder than ever to be a safe pilot!
cliff dow in Maine

[Richgj3]

Very sorry to hear this. Several comments:

I always wear a life vest if going over water. Never fly without shoulder harness. Lost a very good friend in an Airmaster crash years ago who might have been saved by a shoulder harness. As a side note, that man once owned the Stinson in this accident. He bought from the family whose father had fitted it out to come down by parachute. The company was called "Aviation Safety Release". The scheme involved blowing the wings off and deploying a parachute on the fuselage and one on each wing. After the first test the wings were unusable so when my friend got the project it had new wings. He never rebuilt it, but the project was sold to another guy who had it restored. Didn't know it ended up in Maine. It was a very early one, serial number 13.

Rich

[aktango58]

Bummer.

Helmets, harnesses, airbags, balistic parachutes, nomex suits are all safety stuff a person can use.

But at some point we do accept the risk, and take a chance. Getting solid recurrency training from an instructor that is out to make you sweat is as important as anything you can do.

smooth, controlled inputs to controls will deplete less energy while changing pitch/bank angles, and give you more time in the air. Diving, if that means gaining extra speed above desired or requiring a response in the other direction to counter, is not the best use of energy in an emergency.

I no longer believe we can predict our actions when power loss happens low. Only by training again and again to where we do it automatic, with no thought, will it be there every time.

Hearing BR's story made me think last summer; and I changed the way I flew because of it.

My very best wishes to the family and friends of the pilot.

[Seaworthy]

Cliff

If this guy had not gone to the airport that day he would still be alive. I know Louis---I know! All the bells and whistles on an airplane will not save you from yourself. Do you recall the three Air France pilots that flew an A-330 into the South Atlantic? Point being, the aircraft got ahead of this pilot. My wife asked me this morning, " how long to fly to Provincetown ( the bitter end of Cape Cod)? I replied about 40 minutes. She responded, "why---it's only seventeen miles." My response, " Because until July the water temperature is nonsurvivable if you go swimming." It's all choices. If you want to throw the dice, knock yourself out. Sooner or later it's going to come up snake eyes.

[mvivion]

Nevertheless, Cliff makes good suggestions....I still see too many airplanes of all flavors without shoulder harnesses. How long has it been since every automobile has been built with shoulder harnesses at every seat? They save lives. I had the distinct displeasure of removing a portable GPS from a friend's face, the proximate cause of his death....because he didn't have the shoulder harness installed on and secured.

Same goes for inflatable life vests. Anyone who flies over water, seaplane or landplane, needs to WEAR an inflatable PFD, and know how it works.

All of this may not have saved the gentleman's life, who knows? But we can definitely improve our odds at little cost and minimal inconvenience.

May his soul find peace, and condolences to the family....I am sure he'll be missed by many.

MTV

[JP]

There's also likely another factor in play in the Casco Bay tragedy. If you look at the sectional you will note that PWM's Class C airspace is right adjacent to the accident spot. If you aren't interested in talking to Portland Approach this is the route you take coming up or down the coast. It was a beautiful day that day--terrific visibility and stunning scenery on the coast. I bet he was taking the "no talk, no transponder" route up through Casco Bay and enjoying a spectacular day when, for whatever reason, all went to heck in a handbasket.

That could have been a lot of us who fly in this part of the world. A lot of times when I'm going to Hampton I will "island hop" through Casco Bay to save time and enjoy the view. I put in a bit of altitude and stay near boats on the brief overwater sections between the islands. The longest bit over the water is right around Fort Williams light, from the Cape Elizabeth shore out to Peaks Island on the curve of the C. I always wear my inflatable life jacket over water (along with my ever present helmet and shoulder harnesses), but still.......

[Homerrhoid]

Of course, condolences to the family and friends; it could have been any of us.

To that note, I took my BFR yesterday, and I do occassionally cross water at altitude. I try to have enough altitude to glide to the beach with an engine failure, but what glide ratio is realistic? My BFR pilot told me to go test it, so this AM I did. I was about 1550 lbs., by myself, 45 to 50 degrees temperature, no flaps. I climbed to 3,000 feet, then established the glide speed and timed it between 2500 and 2000 feet. I flew the same course for all runs, and I tried to maintain the established glide with power off (engine idle)- truthfully there were some small deviations from the desired glide which I chalk up to less than perfect airmanship. I determined my best glide speed for that weight is 50MPH indicated (GPS ground speed indicated 61MPH). I was tracking perpendicular to the breeze-same direction for all runs.

Indicated MPH GPS Distance glided Time, sec (2500 to 2000 Ft)
50 61 4,053 45.3
55 65 3,956 41.5
60 71.5 3,712 35.4
65 72.5 3,668 34.5
70 77 3,049 27
75 81 3,089 26

My stopwatch time was very accurate, my 500 foot interval was accurate, but my average GPS speed varied a little on some runs-maybe wind or poor airmanship. But I was surprised to learn 50 MPH is better than 70 MPH. That windmilling boher prop and big tires, VG's make a difference. I figure I should use a 7:1 glide ratio or a little less to be conservative. At 50 MPH for every 1000 feet altitude I lose, I could go 8,100 horizontal distance (8:1 ratio). I did not have any flaps, of course, but the excercise was worth doing.

From Dr. Hanson's experience, I'm going to practice engine out landings. Remember to fly the airplane all the way to the ground or water, and wear a life preserver when I'm over water when I can't glide myself out of a water landing.

[OVEREASYGUY]

Rumor has it the right tank gas cap was missing on this airplane. And the fuel selector was found on the right tank. Does anyone know what happens in a Stinson if you leave the gas cap off and fly around? Some estimate he flew around about 45 minutes - is that enough time to empty a Stinson tank with no gas cap on?

I flew home once from KLEW in my cub and they called and they said I left my gas cap their so back I went. I did not notice any appreciable lose of fuel during this short 10 minute flight. Will a PA-18 lose gas if the cap is left off? And how about a Stinson?
When some people experince a tramatic event they just short circuit! I think that's what happened here - all he had to do was switch tanks and he would be alive today! So sad!

Cliff Dow in Maine
dow.us

[sierra bravo]

My 180 fuel gauges will indicate near full in flight when a cap is left off even when there's considerably less than that in the tank. Don't know if it works the same on a Stinson. I can't say whether I was losing fuel but I suspect so. A friend in another 180 took off with both caps off one time. The tower called him and told him he was leaving a fog trail from the top of his wings. He did a quick circuit and landed.

[N5126H]

Of course, condolences to the family and friends; it could have been any of us.

To that note, I took my BFR yesterday, and I do occassionally cross water at altitude. I try to have enough altitude to glide to the beach with an engine failure, but what glide ratio is realistic? My BFR pilot told me to go test it, so this AM I did. I was about 1550 lbs., by myself, 45 to 50 degrees temperature, no flaps. I climbed to 3,000 feet, then established the glide speed and timed it between 2500 and 2000 feet. I flew the same course for all runs, and I tried to maintain the established glide with power off (engine idle)- truthfully there were some small deviations from the desired glide which I chalk up to less than perfect airmanship. I determined my best glide speed for that weight is 50MPH indicated (GPS ground speed indicated 61MPH). I was tracking perpendicular to the breeze-same direction for all runs.

Indicated MPH GPS Distance glided Time, sec (2500 to 2000 Ft)
50 61 4,053 45.3
55 65 3,956 41.5
60 71.5 3,712 35.4
65 72.5 3,668 34.5
70 77 3,049 27
75 81 3,089 26

My stopwatch time was very accurate, my 500 foot interval was accurate, but my average GPS speed varied a little on some runs-maybe wind or poor airmanship. But I was surprised to learn 50 MPH is better than 70 MPH. That windmilling boher prop and big tires, VG's make a difference. I figure I should use a 7:1 glide ratio or a little less to be conservative. At 50 MPH for every 1000 feet altitude I lose, I could go 8,100 horizontal distance (8:1 ratio). I did not have any flaps, of course, but the excercise was worth doing.

From Dr. Hanson's experience, I'm going to practice engine out landings. Remember to fly the airplane all the way to the ground or water, and wear a life preserver when I'm over water when I can't glide myself out of a water landing.

Generally (unless you are a very tall or very short person)the distance you can glide in a cub is easy to deturmin. Look out the side at the jury strut, the ground you see inside the jury strut is the distance you can go, anything outside of the that is not a good bet.

Bill

[Mritter]

Generally (unless you are a very tall or very short person)the distance you can glide in a cub is easy to deturmin. Look out the side at the jury strut, the ground you see inside the jury strut is the distance you can go, anything outside of the that is not a good bet.

Bill

I really like that advise Bill. I think it keeps folks from stretching out a glide too far.

[cubdriver2]

I really like that advise Bill. I think it keeps folks from stretching out a glide too far.

I think that's no wind or downwind only.

Glenn

[behindpropellers]

Of course, condolences to the family and friends; it could have been any of us.

To that note, I took my BFR yesterday, and I do occassionally cross water at altitude. I try to have enough altitude to glide to the beach with an engine failure, but what glide ratio is realistic? My BFR pilot told me to go test it, so this AM I did. I was about 1550 lbs., by myself, 45 to 50 degrees temperature, no flaps. I climbed to 3,000 feet, then established the glide speed and timed it between 2500 and 2000 feet. I flew the same course for all runs, and I tried to maintain the established glide with power off (engine idle)- truthfully there were some small deviations from the desired glide which I chalk up to less than perfect airmanship. I determined my best glide speed for that weight is 50MPH indicated (GPS ground speed indicated 61MPH). I was tracking perpendicular to the breeze-same direction for all runs.

Indicated MPH GPS Distance glided Time, sec (2500 to 2000 Ft)
50 61 4,053 45.3
55 65 3,956 41.5
60 71.5 3,712 35.4
65 72.5 3,668 34.5
70 77 3,049 27
75 81 3,089 26

My stopwatch time was very accurate, my 500 foot interval was accurate, but my average GPS speed varied a little on some runs-maybe wind or poor airmanship. But I was surprised to learn 50 MPH is better than 70 MPH. That windmilling boher prop and big tires, VG's make a difference. I figure I should use a 7:1 glide ratio or a little less to be conservative. At 50 MPH for every 1000 feet altitude I lose, I could go 8,100 horizontal distance (8:1 ratio). I did not have any flaps, of course, but the excercise was worth doing.

From Dr. Hanson's experience, I'm going to practice engine out landings. Remember to fly the airplane all the way to the ground or water, and wear a life preserver when I'm over water when I can't glide myself out of a water landing.

What about headwinds. Tailwinds? More weight? Less weight?

Time for the glider rating.

[N5126H]

I think that's no wind or downwind only.

Glenn

Of course there are other things to consider, but if you go down wind, you might want to land up wind, so a turn is required, up wind might be slower, but you will be going in the right direction.

Just try it and see, I have and it works and is easy to remember.

Bill

[aktango58]

Fourth of July here was a grand day. However, our parade and day was marred by the news a local fisherman, (commercial), that was loved by all, had fallen over and drowned earlier that day. The gist is that he tripped and fell overboard as he was reversing to grab the end of the net. The boat continued back into the net. He was drifting away from the boat, and could not get back. His daughter on board could not get the boat out of the net to retrieve him, and the distance was quickly out of life ring range.

There is a group of folks now gathering money in Richard's name: Richard Boyce, on facebook with the goal of collecting enough money to purchase every boat in the harbor a set of inflatable suspenders from Stormy Seas: http://www.stormyseas.com/

I personally wear a Sterns inflatable life jacket flying. I had two different Stormy Seas units when I commercial fished... one vest one coat. They are comfortable, wear like any coat, and you can work in them. It would have saved Richard's life, maybe. It most likely would have saved the pilot in the story above.

Like all safety gear, if it is stored in a safe place when you need it, it may not be available. Even you folks in the mid west might find yourself headed to a spot of water instead of a crowd.

Just think about it. It CAN happen to us.

[n40ff]

At least it's easy to figure in the little bipe, if you are over water you will likely get wet. Look at leading edge of bottom wing, you will land behind that!