Knik/Lake George TFR

[Henny]

New TFR coming for just south of Lake George on Colony Glacier. Should show up on FAA NOTAM/TFR site shortly. Probably be there for a while. Attached pdf gives some details.

TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTION ANCHORAGE, ALASKA.
EFFECTIVE 16XXL(14 JUN 12) UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE:
PURSUANT TO 14 CFR 91.137(A)(2), TEMPORARY FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS ARE IN EFFECT IN THE VICINITY OF A MILITARY OPERATING AREA NEAR THE TOE OF COLONY GLACIER. ALL FLIGHT OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED AT 6000 FEET MSL AND BELOW WITHIN A 2 NM RADIUS OF 61-15.0N AND 148-30.0W OR THE BIG LAKE VOR (BGQ) 096 RADIAL FOR 46 NM, OR ANCHORAGE (TED) 064 RADIAL AT 42 NM. ONLY THOSE ACFT PARTICIPATING IN THE MILITARY ACTIVITIES AND BEING OPERATED UNDER THE DIRECTION OF THE OFFICIAL IN CHARGE OF THE ON-SCENE ACTIVITIES, OR AIRCRAFT CARRYING LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIALS, OR ACFT OPERATIING ON AN ATC APPROVED FLIGHT PLAN ARE AUTHORIZED IN THE AREA. TRAFFIC ADVISORIES IN THE VICINITY OF LAKE GEORGE WILL BE BROADCAST ON 122.7. OFFICIAL CONTACT PERSON IS LTC NALL, JBER, AK(907)552-5209. ANCHORAGE CENTER 907- 269-1103 IS THE FAA COORDINATION FACILITY.

007--Possible historic aircraft accident debris discovered.pdf

[Henny]

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_2_9070.html

[njneer]

Thanks Henny. Guess I'll load my fly rod in and head west this weekend.

Bruce

[njneer]

Diggin' up bones.

http://www.ktuu.com/news/possible-mi...,2987745.story

[articfox]

Geez. No kidding.

[mit greb]

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/14/250532...g-mission.html

Really we needed a TFR for this?????????

[sierra bravo]

I remember when I was a kid in the late 60s a kid in my Ft. Rich neighborhood lost his dad in a local training flight and the plane was never found. I remember they thought it was in the mountains, not the water but don't remember much else. If this debris is from an accident like that one I'm sure the families will appreciate the find.

Or maybe there's something there that we aren't supposed to see. It could be the stuff of a good conspiracy theory.

[aktango58]

maybe they are actually catching fish bigger than SB's daughter and want it a secret...

I understand the removal, but closing that much ground for it... hmmm

[OLDCROWE]

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/14/250532...g-mission.html

Really we needed a TFR for this?????????

Likely to keep rubberneckers at bay and to secure the site.

[jk]

A little highjack here, but any of you South central guys land at Edmonds Lake, where the Cub scout camp is located? Going in there this July for a cub scout camp. I know about Mirror Lake, Thanks!

JK

[njneer]

A little highjack here, but any of you South central guys land at Edmonds Lake, where the Cub scout camp is located? Going in there this July for a cub scout camp. I know about Mirror Lake, Thanks!

JK

I think you have a pretty steep approach from anything but the highway side. To answer your question, "Nope, never landed there." Be careful, young boys with canoes on the lake at times.

Bruce

[jk]

Thanks Bruce!

[flywhatever]

Hmmm I wonder if Lake George at the toe of the Colony is sewed up for a canoe?

[cubflier]

Hmmm I wonder if Lake George at the toe of the Colony is sewed up for a canoe?

Since it's a TFR I think you can canoe right up the toe of the glacier but before you do consider this series of shots of the toe of the Colony Glacier. I would wear as a minimum a life jacket and a hard hat.

Oh..and bring a surf board just in case





Good Luck,

Jerry

[articfox]

I hate to say it but I think the last 5 people I talked to have seen that site including myself. I figured everyone knew about that. Makes me wonder about a few others I've flown over. Know what I mean?

[flywhatever]

If you've flown around Alaska much you wouldn't be surprised by what's been hauled in and stashed.

[sierra bravo]

I hate to say it but I think the last 5 people I talked to have seen that site including myself. I figured everyone knew about that. Makes me wonder about a few others I've flown over. Know what I mean?

The JBER Rescue Coordination Center's office has a map of Alaska with pins to mark known airplane wrecks. It would be interesting to get public contributions to that map. Maybe some old missing aircraft files could be closed.

[articfox]

Yep. The RCC has a pretty helpful data base. I worked (kinda) next to them and would get a list of wrecks for a particular area. They had Lat/Long info and were very willing to help. I will say that it was not a complete list. I agree that somehow it should all be plumped up.
There was another topic of concern regarding the TFR's. A few years back during a search attempt, a TFR was put into place. It was to let the military run in and take a look at a particular area. The problem with it was that the TFR wasn't opened for days. This long closure had the effect of hindering private search planes (who had the gas and time) from doing their job. In Alaska, we may want to watch that action. The next time were searching for someone (like you searching for me), it would be appreciated to have access to the TFR through whoever shut the area down. The Military has a little bit of a habit letting these things go on without opening them back up for any reason and for time periods not conducive to private rescue. If you know what I mean? Anyhoo, Wow! Nice picture Jerry. How big a bow wave was that? That could drown a catfish.

[mike mcs repair]

The JBER Rescue Coordination Center's office has a map of Alaska with pins to mark known airplane wrecks. It would be interesting to get public contributions to that map. Maybe some old missing aircraft files could be closed.

I would love to make a gps map app from that data.... Had asked about it before, guess I just need to make a FOI request for it, was suggested, no idea how to do that....

[Henny]

Yep. The RCC has a pretty helpful data base. I worked (kinda) next to them and would get a list of wrecks for a particular area. They had Lat/Long info and were very willing to help. I will say that it was not a complete list. I agree that somehow it should all be plumped up.
There was another topic of concern regarding the TFR's. A few years back during a search attempt, a TFR was put into place. It was to let the military run in and take a look at a particular area. The problem with it was that the TFR wasn't opened for days. This long closure had the effect of hindering private search planes (who had the gas and time) from doing their job. In Alaska, we may want to watch that action. The next time were searching for someone (like you searching for me), it would be appreciated to have access to the TFR through whoever shut the area down. The Military has a little bit of a habit letting these things go on without opening them back up for any reason and for time periods not conducive to private rescue. If you know what I mean? Anyhoo, Wow! Nice picture Jerry. How big a bow wave was that? That could drown a catfish.

I can't comment on when the RCC puts a TFR in place for an active search, but I can tell you that we are sensitive to the current TFR and its effect on commercial ops as well as GA flights in that area. Minimizing the size of it and terminating it as soon as possible was the plan from the start. Hopefully the Joint POW-MIA Accounting Command folks will complete what they need to do as quickly as possible.

Concur with the nice calving photos. Yikes!

[cubflier]

I can tell you that we are sensitive to the current TFR and its effect on commercial ops as well as GA flights in that area. Minimizing the size of it and terminating it as soon as possible was the plan from the start. Hopefully the Joint POW-MIA Accounting Command folks will complete what they need to do as quickly as possible.

I am glad to hear this. Effectively the top of the two passes in that area have been raised by about 2000 ft. I travel this route a bunch in the summer and fall and could see this narrowing the escape options in a place that is known to make it's own weather quite rapidly.

BTW - Thanks for starting this thread. Otherwise, I would not have know till the other day when Juneau radio via Naked Island RCO informed me about it. Palmer radio did not include it in their advisory to me on the way out.

Jerry

[mit greb]

Have we got any info on the type of Aircraft or anything yet?????

[Henny]

The Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command team has been on the glacier for the last two days and likely has another 3 or 4 to go. They probably won't release details or speculate for a while, but there is some online discussion happening (FWIW):

http://m.facebook.com/pages/C124-Cra...%2Fsearch&_rdr

Reports of 4 TFR violations in last 2 days.

[articfox]

Ok. Let me get this straight. So, it was a 124 that everyone knew about back in the day but the Air Force could not get the remains out? Did I get that they stopped trying from (understandably) the rough terrain? But the wreck moved miles down the glacier over the years? The wreck was reached from the Gannet side but the rescue attempt was abandoned. I think thats what I got from all this. It was sort of forgotten until the last training mission that ended up right on top of it. What a story. Wow.

I was doing a some commercial work up in that neighborhood the last few days. People are busting the crap out of that TFR. Be careful.

[sierra bravo]

It's interesting that this TFR hasn't been mentioned in any ATIS reports I've heard. Forest fire TFRs are commonly mentioned even when they're further out and more remote. I'd think there would be some mention of a TFR in the Knik area even if it referred us to Kenai Radio for detailed info. I'd be willing to wager that most if not all the TFR incursion pilots had no idea there was any restriction in place.

[pa12drvr]

It's interesting that this TFR hasn't been mentioned in any ATIS reports I've heard. Forest fire TFRs are commonly mentioned even when they're further out and more remote. I'd think there would be some mention of a TFR in the Knik area even if it referred us to Kenai Radio for detailed info. I'd be willing to wager that most if not all the TFR incursion pilots had no idea there was any restriction in place.

Not that it was particularly helpful, but this TFR was mentioned in the Merrill ATIS a week ago (last time I flew). The ATIS mentioned (IIRC) something about 30-odd miles to the east of Merrill, two NM radius, up to 6,000ft. I don't believe that the ATIS listing mentioned any coordinates (Palmer radio had those on request) nor anything more specific than the 30 miles and east for a heading.

Based on solely listening to the Merrill ATIS, I got better information on the locatino from the Daily Worker.

[Henny]

TFR ended yesterday afternoon. Possibility it will resurface in the next few weeks with a smaller diameter and not so high.

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/26/252124...-military.html

[cubflier]

TFR ended yesterday afternoon. Possibility it will resurface in the next few weeks with a smaller diameter and not so high.

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/26/252124...-military.html

Thanks for the update and the lower altitude of any subsequent TFR will be greatly appreciated.

Jerry

[1CF-12Z]

Some updated information:

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/27/252244...n-glacier.html

[mike mcs repair]

http://www.adn.com/2012/06/27/252244...n-glacier.html

http://www.ktuu.com/news/knik-glacie...,6730001.story

[jk]

Glad to hear that those families that are effected by this new information have the closure now, as no matter how long it takes, closure is a necessary component of the healing process.
Never forgotten!

JK

[spinner2]

Latest article from ADN online says the wreck was first found by pilot Terris Moore in 1952 flying a Super Cub! It was 12 miles farther up the glacier then. It was buried in snow within a few days and searchers were not able to re-find it until now.


Sent from my iPhone from the middle of nowhere using Tapatalk

[articfox]

Went up to the top where (kinda) the accident must have taken place. Good gravy is that a place. No wonder they never got anything out of there.

Anyhow, don't want to hijack a thread. I will of course... If any of you guys are interested, we are going to throw a get together at the school. I'm going to run over some airspace stuff for a number of guys. I figured it would be nice to make it a open forum for whoever shows up. 6pm. July 10th. Next to the Noisy Goose. Come one and all. Bring a chair. About a hour long. I'll hit t critical areas around the Valley including Knik and how the airspace looks around Alaska. TFR's and all that jazz. I'll throw some coffee on. Good time to ask questions about whats over your head.

Thanks,
Artic

[Henny]

New TFR in same location beginning tomorrow at 0900L. 1/2 NM radius up to 1500 ft MSL. Helo's will be sling-loading the remaining debris off the glacier over the next week or so.

[Henny]

http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_2_6369.html

[Henny]

Mission complete as of Friday afternoon. TFR may resurface towards the end of the summer if the glacier decides to give up more debris.