Rear Seat Solo PA-12

[otbdl]

Hi there,

Can anyone help me with the front seat solo limitation for the PA-12.
Since I am too tall (6ft9")to sit in the front seat, I want to fly the plane from the backseat. When I sit in the back I am able to reach and operate all controls normally. I checked the weight and balance and I am within limits.
How can I fly this plane legally from the back seat?

Regards,

Olivier Schreiner

[Longwinglover]

Always carry a "student" in the front seat?

John Scott

[cubdriver2]

Always carry a "student" in the front seat?

John Scott

Do what John does

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLOW-UP-DOLL...item3a6e5b9f88


Glenn

[Richard Deblack]

I'm not sure about your -12 but I have a bigger front seat in mine and the wide stance on the pedals from the rear is uncomfortable. I also can not reach the flap handle or the fuel selector from the rear. The gentleman I purchased my -12 from was a big guy and he'd put the front seat on double rails so it slides back pretty far which is convenient, other than when it slid back the other day on take off You may want to look into a seat that slides back? How is the center of gravity at 6'9" in the back seat, solo?

[cubunltd]

Last page of TCD A-780, note 2 item c. On rear seat "front seat for solo flying". Install a PA18 adjustable seat ! or some other STC'd seat.

John

[aktango58]

Cessna front seat...

[otbdl]

I'm not sure about your -12 but I have a bigger front seat in mine and the wide stance on the pedals from the rear is uncomfortable. I also can not reach the flap handle or the fuel selector from the rear. The gentleman I purchased my -12 from was a big guy and he'd put the front seat on double rails so it slides back pretty far which is convenient, other than when it slid back the other day on take off You may want to look into a seat that slides back? How is the center of gravity at 6'9" in the back seat, solo?

It's well within limits, but just for the feeling I put 40KG on front seat when I made my first "real" solo from the rear seat. nevertheless, I won't be doing that anymore since it's not legal.

[otbdl]

Last page of TCD A-780, note 2 item c. On rear seat "front seat for solo flying". Install a PA18 adjustable seat ! or some other STC'd seat.

John

the extra space that I create with this solution won't be sufficient. Why is there a limitation on the PA-12 anyway?

[skukum12]

I have to jump in here. I am 6' 8" and fly my 12 till the tanks are dry without a problem. My seat is fixed as well. otbdl, are your legs too long or is your torso too long? I have flown my 12 from the rear (with a human bean up front) and it is really uncomfortable/goofey.

I would go with the adjustable seat, not sure the amount of gain there is over the fixed seat though. Just for reference, I moved the seat back in my old Landcruiser three inches and it made a world of difference. Does the cub seat gain 1,2,3 inches over a fixed seat?

Joe

[skywagon8a]

the extra space that I create with this solution won't be sufficient. Why is there a limitation on the PA-12 anyway?

I do believe that you will find that the reason for the back seat solo limitation has to do with the "normal" FAA (CAA when the 12 was certified) 170 pounds person who would not have long enough arms to reach all of the controls which were placed on the instrument panel. In your case, since you are long enough to reach everything and do fall within the legal CG range, I would go to your local FAA equivalent in Rotterdam and ask for a waver to the "front seat for solo" limitation.

You should get a performance increase, quicker off the ground, higher rate of climb and faster cruise.

[cubunltd]

The PA18 seat has adjustment holes spaced 1" apart giving you at least 3" of adjustment. You can also drill another hole in the rail an inch from the last one and gain another inch. if your legs are too long add a cushion to the seat bottom and that'll give you somemore leg room.

john

[otbdl]

I have to jump in here. I am 6' 8" and fly my 12 till the tanks are dry without a problem. My seat is fixed as well. otbdl, are your legs too long or is your torso too long? I have flown my 12 from the rear (with a human bean up front) and it is really uncomfortable/goofey.

I would go with the adjustable seat, not sure the amount of gain there is over the fixed seat though. Just for reference, I moved the seat back in my old Landcruiser three inches and it made a world of difference. Does the cub seat gain 1,2,3 inches over a fixed seat?

Joe

Don't know but my legs and arms are long. On the front seat I won't be able to get my knees below the panel. I will have to go very far backwards to sit comfortably. I fly the 12 always from the backseat with a passenger in front. But the view without passenger is much better.

Thnks

[otbdl]

I do believe that you will find that the reason for the back seat solo limitation has to do with the "normal" FAA (CAA when the 12 was certified) 170 pounds person who would not have long enough arms to reach all of the controls which were placed on the instrument panel. In your case, since you are long enough to reach everything and do fall within the legal CG range, I would go to your local FAA equivalent in Rotterdam and ask for a waver to the "front seat for solo" limitation.

You should get a performance increase, quicker off the ground, higher rate of climb and faster cruise.

Thanks, I will try that. I noticed increased performance during my illegal test flight. That's why I want to fly it legally from the back.

[cubdriver2]

Thanks, I will try that. I noticed increased performance during my illegal test flight. That's why I want to fly it legally from the back.

In a Pa11 you can solo from both seats as long as you don't put 10 gals of gas in the baggage. If you go to a flyin and want to beat the SC on take off you get in the front seat, if you really want to spank them you get in the back seat. The stall speed is lower, the climb greater and the roll rate faster, you even pick up a few mph in cruise BUT you need to respect the CG a little closer. If you ever take off and run out of foward trim in cruise go back home and land a little faster the you usually do.

Glenn

[j5mike]

Or you could sell the 12and get a J5 and fly it from which seat you prefer. The 5 is a great flying plane. But you have very limited support for Mods. Since there where twice as many 12's made there is much more STC's available.

[otbdl]

Or you could sell the 12and get a J5 and fly it from which seat you prefer. The 5 is a great flying plane. But you have very limited support for Mods. Since there where twice as many 12's made there is much more STC's available.

Selling the 12 is not an option..

[cubunltd]

You can fly a J5 from the back seat solo but you are limited to 20 lbs. baggage when doing so.

John

[skukum12]

Don't know but my legs and arms are long. On the front seat I won't be able to get my knees below the panel. I will have to go very far backwards to sit comfortably. I fly the 12 always from the backseat with a passenger in front. But the view without passenger is much better.

Thnks

Maybe your panel extends downward below the crosstube of the fuselage? If mine did, I would be out of luck as well.

[MainlandCub]

the extra space that I create with this solution won't be sufficient. Why is there a limitation on the PA-12 anyway?

To answer your question it is just the way they certified it. They would've done all the flight demonstrations required for certification from the front seat. They would've had to have flown another complete set of flight tests from the rear seat to certify it for flight from both seats.

It is not beyond the bounds of possibility to get a page for your flight manual that permits solo from the rear seat. It would involve the Dutch equivalent of a DER, might be known as a Design Approval Holder in the Netherlands, and the associated cost.

Andrew.