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Thread: Oops, darn it...

  1. #601
    180Marty's Avatar
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    Another PA-12 maiden flight after rebuild accident.
    Sad deal. Will be interesting to see if it is controls hooked up backwards or engine problem or????? Thought maybe it was my old 12 that is close by but it's not.

  2. #602
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 180Marty View Post
    Sad deal. Will be interesting to see if it is controls hooked up backwards or engine problem or????? Thought maybe it was my old 12 that is close by but it's not.
    that was my first thought, elevator backwards, or trim.... both easy to do.... and Easy to check for before first flight... always worry about those 2....

  3. #603
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Years ago a Swift was wrecked here on it's first flight after being assembled. The ailerons were hooked up backwards. Fortunately it went into a sand pit upside down and the pilot only got a broken collar bone. He, a WW2 ace, was extremely lucky.
    N1PA

  4. #604

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    Wow, Florida pilots aren't too observant! And apparently a good example of why you should pitch the 121.5 ELTs. 4 souls. Peace to their survivors.

    http://www.news4jax.com/news/florida...ne-plane-crash
    Last edited by stewartb; 04-18-2017 at 10:44 AM.
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  5. #605
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stewartb View Post
    Wow, Florida pilots aren't too observant!
    They were probably all from Alaska and used to seeing wrecked airplanes everywhere!


    Tragedy, Yes. From the extent of the damage, I don't think 12 ELTs could have saved anyone.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
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  6. #606
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    "Optimism is going after Moby Dick in a rowboat and taking the tartar sauce with you!"

  7. #607

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    Very sad , the complacency when rebuilding and then also preflight. How many people looked at this aircraft and elevator was still backwards.

  8. #608
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    What a crying shame. Sadly, this is a reminder that high speed taxi tests prior to first flight can be helpful.
    Gordon

    N4328M KTDO
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  9. #609
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    Wouldnt want to be the one that signed it off.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  10. #610

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    HMMM I don't think a high speed taxi test would be relevant in my humble opinion. IF you don't hook it up right and check it for being right , IT AINT RIGHT. don't taxi don't fly don't use until repaired correctly. very easy to check , pull back on stick elevator goes up push forward elevator goes down. This has happened way to many times to people who don't know what they are doing, and get in to big of a hurry and then either they or someone else who did not do a thorough preflight dies. It is up to the PIC to make sure the aircraft is safe for flight.

  11. #611
    Gordon Misch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eskflyer View Post
    HMMM I don't think a high speed taxi test would be relevant in my humble opinion. IF you don't hook it up right and check it for being right , IT AINT RIGHT. don't taxi don't fly don't use until repaired correctly. very easy to check , pull back on stick elevator goes up push forward elevator goes down. This has happened way to many times to people who don't know what they are doing, and get in to big of a hurry and then either they or someone else who did not do a thorough preflight dies. It is up to the PIC to make sure the aircraft is safe for flight.
    You're correct, of course, HOWEVER - - checking work by multiple entirely different means can reveal errors that have escaped us even though they *should* be obvious. I have always done high speed taxi testing of flight control correctness (among other things) before any flight that follows work on the flight controls.
    Gordon

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  12. #612
    mvivion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon Misch View Post
    You're correct, of course, HOWEVER - - checking work by multiple entirely different means can reveal errors that have escaped us even though they *should* be obvious. I have always done high speed taxi testing of flight control correctness (among other things) before any flight that follows work on the flight controls.
    A proper control check will reveal any improper control connections. In a cub, look out the door at the tail to verify rudder and elevator correct, look out the windows at the ailerons to verify they're correct. A high speed taxi won't do anything this procedure won't do, and a high speed taxi MAY result in liftoff.

    And, a control check is NOT just for when the controls have been re-rigged.

    Terrible accidents these, and so easily prevented.

    MTV
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  13. #613
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
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    I do a control check every time before I fly. I stir out the stick for free movement and then look over my shoulder at the elevator and ailerons to verify correct movement. The rudder is verified during taxi.

    I agree that high speed taxis are of little value.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
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  14. #614
    BC12D-4-85's Avatar
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    I wonder if A&P schools ever rig planes wrong for the students to discover? This is no mysterious event and we all either know or have heard of this happening. Maybe not being a pilot is a contributing factor for some that do the maintenance?

    Yes preflights by pilots have their place as well.

    Gary
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  15. #615
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cubdriver2 View Post
    exactly! what I always worry about doing.... I always like to walk over & verify against a flying plane or 2...

    Further examination revealed that the elevator control cables were improperly rigged, such that they were attached to the incorrect (opposite) locations on the upper and lower elevator control horn.
    that an incorrect statement..... the cables were attached to the wrong END FITTINGS that in turn were attached to the PROPER horn ends.... I worry this one, on every one....

  16. #616
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    What is it about a PA-12 that seems to make it susceptible to having the elevators hooked up backwards? I believe that there have been four of these accidents all fatal, since I've been associated with SC.org. None of the other PA-xx models have had this situation in that time frame. Hooking up controls backwards has always frightened me. Particularly since I knew personally of a Swift's ailerons being done backwards, not fatal but plane destroyed. ALWAYS move the controls while looking for proper direction, particularly after maintenance.
    N1PA
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  17. #617
    180Marty's Avatar
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    What is it about a PA-12 that seems to make it susceptible to having the elevators hooked up backwards?
    My current 12 has a PA 18 elevator setup but the original has a rod hooked up to a bellcrank under the rear seat/ baggage area. Can't remember which way the bellcrank went with control inputs but maybe that is the culprit.
    Last edited by 180Marty; 04-20-2017 at 01:06 PM.

  18. #618
    skukum12's Avatar
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    12s more susceptible to this problem? Maybe, maybe not. Because I fly one, anytime PA12 is mentioned my ears perk up. Could just be a matter of perception.

    Didn't we have a 12 in the last two years or so have the same problem during it's maiden post rebuild flight at Merrill? Same unfortunate outcome.

    The one time I didn't sweep the cockpit before liftoff, my controls jammed to where I had no left aileron beyond stick vertical. Was a rare no wind day at Wolf Lake and landed uneventfully. Did an immediate search for a gremlin and found it. A pebble, sized and shaped like a pencil lead was in the groove of a pulley under the rear seat. I could have obviously overpowered the pebble IF I knew what it was. But I wasn't interested in possibly causing further loss of controllability in that situation.

    "Controls FREE and CORRECT," every flight, every time.
    "Always looking up"
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  19. #619

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    I always taught 'Thumbs Up'.
    With a control stick, grasp it with your thumb pointing up. When you move the stick, your thumb will be pointing at the control surface that should be 'up'.
    This also works with a control wheel. Perfectly on the ailerons. You just have use a little more imagination with the elevators. I always said to point your thumb the direction, fore or aft, that you are moving the wheel. So, when you move the wheel aft, your thumb will be pointing aft at the up elevator.
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  20. #620

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    Well unfortunately we know where many of these peoples thumbs were. if you don't understand your flight controls and what and where they are supposed to do and be at then you should not be flying.

  21. #621
    L18C-95's Avatar
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    With side by side seating 'up yours, up mine' also works if somewhat inelegant! Full and free before taxiing and before take off.


    Sent from my iPad using SuperCub.Org

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