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Drones

Here is a list of Zinke's professional businesses associations (Grumman, General Dynamics, Sierra Nevada, Unmanned Systems INC, ) Those are the drone people; no wonder he pu$hed $o hard for drones while in our legislature. The problem is, he doesn't want to keep them at home but expand them into this eastern Montana airspace. Our passion for airplanes lies between him and his money. The guy is a retired seal team 6 commander...via computer is the safest way to disagree with him. R
 
So what happens when a "drone" flies over the president's golf game and gets intercepted by a F-16 and is ordered to land? Does the "drone" land or shoot back? :lol:
 
An excellent book and story. I finished the Kindle edition last week. That WWII generation is disappearing fast. My father in law is a navy veteran of that war. He turns 95 this week. Still living at home too.

Ralph there is a drone training facility very close to the Kalispell VOR. That could be why Zimke has an interest. I foresee a time soon when we'll have drones patrolling our northern border.
Dan,

They already are. Predator B's are operated out of Grand Forks AFB, and controlled by CBP Air and Marine out of Grand Forks. Take a look at the electronic version of the Twin Cities sectional, and above Grand Forks AFB, you'll see a half moon shaped TFR, which is the climb corridor for the Predators, so they can launch to and from. They climb in that corridor up to Positive Controlled A/S (Alpha airspace for you youngsters), then they patrol the border on an "IFR" plan, essentially.

And, they've been operating Predators for years out of Fort Huachuca, near Sierra Vista, AZ to patrol the southern border.

MTV
 
There was a midair in Afghanistan with a Herk. Took out the engines one side. I don't think the Herk ever flew again. Luckily it was a tiny drone and not a pred.

Jake
 
Now they have done it. The FAA has grounded a radio controlled model airplane like SJ's.
http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2013/03/14/faa-grounds-local-aerial-photo-business/

This was because they were trying to use it for commercial purposes. You can't use any RC models for commercial purposes as there are no regulations set up for it. They can't even test development of these things legally, as that is a commercial practice.

So at this moment, any video shot from an RC aircraft (and I saw some this weekend) that is turned into a movie and sold, thereby making it commercial, is probably illegal.

sj
 
Since the laws in this country are based upon the "presumption of liberty", why would anything be illegal if there isn't a specific law banning it?
 
Having all activities and equipment banned which aren't directly provided for in current regulations, and making changes to those regulations difficult to impossible, is a good way to insure that innovation and creativity are stopped. Ralph
 
As things stand now, you can take down a fully loaded airliner with your drone and stop at Wendy's for dinner on the way home.
 
Since the laws in this country are based upon the "presumption of liberty", why would anything be illegal if there isn't a specific law banning it?

What she said!!!

So since there is no law allowing me to do what bears do in the woods it is breaking the law????
 
Do I need to get approval from the FAA to fly a model aircraft for recreation?
No. FAA guidance does not address size of the model aircraft. FAA guidance says that model aircraft flights should be kept below 400 feet above ground level (AGL), should be flown a sufficient distance from populated areas and full scale aircraft, and are not for business purposes.

Can I fly a UAS under a COA or experimental certificate for commercial purposes?
No. Currently, there are no means to obtain an authorization for commercial UAS operations in the NAS. However, manufacturers may apply for an experimental certificate for the purposes of R&D, market survey and crew training.

Here is the document this comes from:
http://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/uas/uas_faq/index.cfm?print=go
 
Seems like there ought to be someone in the cockpit who's life depends on paying attention.

Believe me, THEY are paying attention! Well, I guess maybe in this instance someone wasn't. The workload of a drone pilot is very intense. Listening to at least three radio frequencies and monitoring at least 6 MFD's at once, plus flying the thing is a very much an information overload. The pilot must have focused mind and a way of seperating all the information and make then a decission on what to do, all within a split second. The other issue is the time lag between the drone pilots input on the controls or for weapons firing, the aircraft that is on the other side of the world. I was able to fly the MQ-9 Reaper simulator and within a couple of minutes I was WAY behind the curve. Maybe I need to restate that.....I attempted to fly the Reaper. LOL
One of these days I will post a picture of myself sitting there with a bewildered look of dispair on my face.:crazyeyes:
 
I went past a couple of little General Atomics drone playgrounds not too far from Edwards AFB in SoCal last week. Six Predators on the ground at one, three on the ground at the other. Chase planes follow them into and out of Edwards restricted airspace for flight testing. Gives me warm fuzzies all over...
 
Believe me, THEY are paying attention! Well, I guess maybe in this instance someone wasn't. The workload of a drone pilot is very intense. Listening to at least three radio frequencies and monitoring at least 6 MFD's at once, plus flying the thing is a very much an information overload. The pilot must have focused mind and a way of seperating all the information and make then a decission on what to do, all within a split second. The other issue is the time lag between the drone pilots input on the controls or for weapons firing, the aircraft that is on the other side of the world. I was able to fly the MQ-9 Reaper simulator and within a couple of minutes I was WAY behind the curve. Maybe I need to restate that.....I attempted to fly the Reaper. LOL
One of these days I will post a picture of myself sitting there with a bewildered look of dispair on my face.:crazyeyes:

Actually you kind of made my case. If the workload is as high as you say why isn't there a copilot? I still maintain that like a conscience, the small added pressure of dieing yourself is needed in a life or death situation which the moment the wheels leave the ground, flying always is no matter what you are in from balloon to shuttle. I believe the incentive to stay alive is one of the most powerful motivators animals have and is a very useful trait in the cockpit.
 
Actually you kind of made my case. If the workload is as high as you say why isn't there a copilot? I still maintain that like a conscience, the small added pressure of dieing yourself is needed in a life or death situation which the moment the wheels leave the ground, flying always is no matter what you are in from balloon to shuttle. I believe the incentive to stay alive is one of the most powerful motivators animals have and is a very useful trait in the cockpit.

Maybe just electrify the chair... a small zap for oops, a big zap for 'oh ****'!
 
Actually you kind of made my case. If the workload is as high as you say why isn't there a copilot? I still maintain that like a conscience, the small added pressure of dieing yourself is needed in a life or death situation which the moment the wheels leave the ground, flying always is no matter what you are in from balloon to shuttle. I believe the incentive to stay alive is one of the most powerful motivators animals have and is a very useful trait in the cockpit.

In the Predator, there IS a "Systems Operator". It's a two person crew. But, that's also a mega-buck piece of equipment. Now consider what most of the people and agencies envision as a "drone" which is closer to a large model airplane, and CHEAP to buy and operate. THAT is one of the problems with all these discussions: there are drones and there are DRONES. Orders of magnitude difference in size and sophistication and cost. Your local police force probably isn't interested in buying a Predator B...... They're looking for "cheap" and minimal skill to operate.

MTV
 
Here's a website discussing the FAA's regulatory efforts re small drones: http://nowayfaa.org/

His objective is to allow private drones up to 400', but the larger point is that the FAA is ultimately going to decide, and likely will decide in favor of lots more regulation. On the whole, I doubt that private pilots are going to like the result, either way.
 
I see the drones often but don't have a suggestion or solution for the percieved problem. They are out there in droves. I see them in a country where most of the folks on this board don't fly. I have pictures, but the men in black helicpters would come see me if I shared them on a public forum. There will be more of them before less,(stateside) that part I'm sure of.
 
What about serious researchers?
I've legally flown 10' span drones up to 1200'.

JimC,
a little more info please. what is "serious researchers"?
what where you researching that was important enough to be "legally" flying a 10 foot wing span up to 1200 feet. ?
were you or were you not in the air space that "we" civilians were "legally" enjoying our freedom of flight...? and abiding by far's.?

I have enough trouble looking for other airplanes, and here we are advertising that we are flying these darn things at an altitude
that will someday conflict with us bug smashers.

I hope to be educated a little here.

thanks, Kem
 
[h=1]Illegal drone business thrives in US[/h]

Despite regulations banning commercial drone use in the United States, a thriving black market for drones is on the rise, sending the Federal Aviation Administration into a tailspin.
Popularized by their military applications, drones are now taking flight over U.S. skylines with at least hundreds of small, unmanned aircraft hard at work buzzing over football stadiums, Hollywood sets and farms.
As the domestic debate over drones and associated privacy and safety issues heats up in Washington, D.C., companies aren't waiting for formal rules that would permit their commercial use. President Obama has mandated that Congress come up with rules that would permit commercial drone use, but they are not due until 2015.
'Drones can pose a hazard to aircraft, people or property on the ground.'​
- FAA spokesman, Les Dorr

A search on Google for "drones" turns up dozens of companies brazenly advertising drone-related services here in the United States. Drones for hire are used on Hollywood film sets (to get that overhead shot cheaply), to create promotional videos for real estate and to help farmers crop dust and keep a bird's-eye view on livestock. [See video: Autonomous Drones: Not Just Military Tech Anymore
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]
"SkyShutter RCA Helicams can fly almost anywhere," advertizes New York-based SkyShutter on its website. Los Angeles-based Vortex Aerial lists dozens of clients on its website, including the NFL, Indiana University and the La Quinta-California–based SilverRock Golf resort that used the company to create "tee-off flyovers."
"Commercial drone technology is set to take off," says Ben Gielow, government relations manager with the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International (AUVSI), an industry trade association. The AUVSI boldly estimates drones will add 70,000 jobs and $13.6 billion to the U.S. economy over three years, once approved for commercial use.
These radio-controlled vehicles are a far cry from the unmanned military aircraft that fly missions over Pakistan. Commercial drones typically cost from $10,000 to $20,000, weigh 8 to 30 pounds, and are armed only with swiveling HD cameras and GPS guidance systems. They are the same type of aircraft, often the same models, that amateur fly clubs use on weekends. But once you get paid for taking an aerial picture, it all becomes illegal. [See also: China's Drone Swarms Rise to Challenge US Power
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Danger from above
It's about safety, says the FAA. "Drones can pose a hazard to aircraft, people or property on the ground," said FAA spokesman, Les Dorr. The agency is worried about a Wild West climate that if left unchecked could get someone seriously hurt. The FAA has launched 23 recent investigations into complaints of illegal drones, according to a Freedom of Information Act request by television station WRTV in Indianapolis, Ind.
In one case, the FAA proposed a $10,000 fine against drone business Team BlackSheep for buzzing the University of Virginia campus while making a promotional video. According to the FAA, Team BlackSheep was flying recklessly and had some students ducking for cover.
Raphael Pirker, co-founder of Team BlackSheep, denies endangering anyone and says he was not paid for the filming.
Pirker and other drone entrepreneurs say their aircraft are safe and reliable, and pose no threat to people or privacy. The business of drones is mature and ready to grow, they argue. Making matters more frustrating, they say, is that these companies have tens of thousands of dollars invested in drone equipment and are seeing their businesses grind to a halt.
Earlier this year, Dale Slear, co-owner of aerial photography company Beat Copter, received a cease and desist letter from the FAA, grounding the company's $15,000 Cinestar 8 Octocopter. The FAA letter stated that the agency was investigating a complaint that Beat Copter was advertising its aerial photography services for commercial use via its website.
Slear says he knew the legality of flying drones for commercial use was problematic. "We didn't want to look under that rock," he says. "We figured if all these other companies are doing it, why can't we?"
Aerial photography was a growing and lucrative niche for Slear's design and photography business that attracted clients, such as real estate companies, willing to pay ten times what a standard photography gig paid.
An industry in waiting
Unlike most other industries that would rather have regulators buzz off, the Association for Unmanned Vehicle Systems International and companies such as Beat Copter are begging for it. "We want oversight. We want rules," Gielow says. "Our members are dying to know what the safety criteria is, so they can start making money." [See also: Drones Large and Small Coming to U.S
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.]
Meanwhile industries that stand to gain from the use of drones are growing restless. "We are asking the FAA for an expedited timeline for approval of unmanned aircraft before the 2015 mandate," says Kate Bedingfield, spokeswoman for the Motion Picture Association of America. For Hollywood, drones offer a much lower priced and safer alternative to the expensive helicopter flyover shots and skycranes used to film sweeping, top-down video, Bedingfield says. The National Football League has requested similar expedited permission.
In the interim many companies continue to fly in the face of the law. "I'm surprised to see these companies publicly promoting their services online," says Pirker, who claims he has reformed and no longer operates drones illegally. "It would be like drug dealers promoting the drugs they sold."
When contacted, Vortex Aerial, which advertizes aerial video services online, declined to comment. Jason Lam, who owns SkyShutter, says he operates under what he calls a "large grey area." He declined to comment further.
One aerial videographer, who asked that he not be identified, said he'd been contacted by the FAA, which warned that what he was doing was illegal. Despite the warning, he continues to advertise his services online and take jobs. The owner said if he hears back from the FAA with something more than a warning, he'll quit, but for now it's good money.








Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/06...thrives-in-us/?intcmp=obnetwork#ixzz2WzZfQMOM
 
I wish those companies would hurry up and get some drones in Alaska. Shooting at them with a 12 gauge has to be as much fun as shooting at wolves. For some reason, wolves are getting harder to find near here.:wink:
 
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