Results 1 to 36 of 36

Thread: EDO Float Fittings - limit for elongation of bolt holes

  1. #1
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like

    EDO Float Fittings - limit for elongation of bolt holes

    The holes in my EDO float fittings (rear fitting at the aircraft P/N 69747) where the pins for the flying wires go through are worn out. On one side the hole is nearly double as long as it is wide. On the other side it is less.
    Are there any limits for the elongation of these holes? How much material must be left between the hole and the end of the fitting?
    Since new fittings are $$$ from Kenmore (and they do not sell the inner plate separately, only the whole fitting) I want to keep mine as long as possible.

  2. #2
    behindpropellers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    NE Ohio
    Posts
    6,130
    Post Thanks / Like
    Blog Entries
    2
    The fact of owning an airplane is that you need to replace worn out components. Replace the fitting. If it fails it will cost a whole lot more.
    Piper J-5A C-90 N40877
    J-5 Project Pictures

  3. #3
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Crookston, MN
    Posts
    7,600
    Post Thanks / Like
    I'd replace something that worn. That's going to permit movement, followed by sudden stop of that bolt, and sooner or later will cause a failure.

    There are a few outfits that stock used parts as well. Doug Ronan and Eddie Peck come to mind.

    MTV

  4. #4
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    The holes in my EDO float fittings (rear fitting at the aircraft P/N 69747) where the pins for the flying wires go through are worn out. On one side the hole is nearly double as long as it is wide. On the other side it is less.
    Are there any limits for the elongation of these holes? How much material must be left between the hole and the end of the fitting?
    Since new fittings are $$$ from Kenmore (and they do not sell the inner plate separately, only the whole fitting) I want to keep mine as long as possible.
    The hole is work hardening and is very dangerous. Your floats have had extensive wear BE CAREEFUL and insepct them closely. A work harden fitting for that configuration should be changed before flight. Please order serviceable hardware for all work harden structural fittings.

    BTW:
    * Do you have pictures?
    * Total Time on STC'd floats attached to aircraft(s)?

  5. #5
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    903
    Post Thanks / Like

  6. #6
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    I ordered a set of fittings from Stoddards today, my old ones are far from being servicable any more.
    Question was how the limit is for the wear of the wholes.

  7. #7
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    I bought the plane with the fittings. I am currently putting it again on floats for the first time and inspected the fittings and found the wear.

  8. #8
    Aviator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Canada (Legally)
    Posts
    1,109
    Post Thanks / Like
    Any detectable relative movement means unserviceable part(s). The standard hole elongation tolerance is measured in thousands with a hole gauge. No dia. can be more than the upper limit of the hole dia. the Dwg. calls for. If no upper limit specd, then it's the Dwg. tolerance added to the specd. dia.
    A dime to live; a place to fly.

  9. #9
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    At least for normal bolt holes this is correct and the normal tolerances apply, but this hole is a bit special. The pin (not bolt) which goes through it is only loaded in one direkton - the flying wires are pre-loaded by tightening and they can not carry any load in the opposite direction. By the nature of the construction: a steal pin through an aluminium hole, and the vibration in the system the hole is worn out over time in the dirction of the load. I do not think that this unique to my airplane (have seen other fittings with the same form of hole elongation). As long as there is enough material left between hole and the end of the fitting to carry the safe design load from the flying wires there should be no failure. But how much is "enough"?
    I attach a picture to illustrate the problem:

    holes.jpg

  10. #10
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    chugiak AK
    Posts
    6,127
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    ....
    I attach a picture to illustrate the problem:

    holes.jpg
    from your earlier description, you made it sound WAY wobbled out..... that don't look too bad for a job that's only in tension, and only clamped to air frame with a couple tiny bent bolts anyway,(that hole is not the weakest link in setup...)..... clean it check for cracks and go....

  11. #11
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Standard for edge distance is 1 1/2 times the diameter of the bolt or pin in this case. I agree with Mike

    John

  12. #12
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    The picture does not look like it was described in the first post. Next time you post meassure X, Y, Z of hole, and edge distance. Plus, picture(s) and total time on the part.

    Tip: Get a blast cabinet with glass beads (or similiar media used for aluminum) to clean and inspect ALL fittings. You will find the seaplane world takes a lot of common sense that is unwritten. Being intuative is paramount.

    NOTE:

    You said -> "...where the pins for the flying wires go through are worn out. On one side the hole is nearly double as long as it is wide...."
    I Say -> Your statement said "worn out". Generally in the USA that means not serviceable buy your own conclusion.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------
    You said -> "...nearly double as long as it wide..."
    I say -> ...Is not going to pass any inspection no matter what the edge distance.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

  13. #13
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    But, remember blasting/cleaning with abrassive can hide flaws too! Cracks can be "closed up" with to much air pressure for the media or using a hard media like garnet stone on aluminum.

  14. #14
    cruiser's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    South Glens Falls, NY
    Posts
    903
    Post Thanks / Like
    Would a bushing be an option? Weld repair and re-drill the hole? Jim

  15. #15
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by cruiser View Post
    Would a bushing be an option? Weld repair and re-drill the hole? Jim
    2024 T3 is not weldable for primary structures. Bushing maybe. Can anyone reference data for that.... AC 43.. EDO?

  16. #16
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bushing on fly-wires may not be a good idea, due to vibration and popping the bushing out? The part could be fabricated with a bandsaw and a bending brake?

  17. #17
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    That fitting is made of steel. It can be welded and hole redrilled. Bushing repair would also work. Press fit bushing. There is something in AC43.13 on bushing repairs but i don't recall the section without looking for it.

  18. #18
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Someone said "in the seaplane world there is a lot of common sense that is unwritten" I agree, so use it.

  19. #19
    irishfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,258
    Post Thanks / Like
    I just hope that the bolt on fittings for my, 73 year old, EDO 1140's look that good!

  20. #20
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Thanks for all the answers. The picture is not from my original fittings, but from an other set - I should have mentioned that. I only posted it to show which hole I mean. I will take pictures of mine as soon as I come back to the airplane and post them.
    The 1 1/2 edge distance is a good limit.
    What material for a (press-in) bushing would be best, brass or steel?

  21. #21
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    If it was me I'd weld and re-drill it, but a steel bushing would be appropriate. i would not use brass.

    John

  22. #22
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Whoops. Thought it was aluminum. Sorry.

  23. #23
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    The EDO bolt-on fittings are aluminium.
    The weld-on are steel.

  24. #24
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    The EDO bolt-on fittings are aluminium.
    The weld-on are steel.
    Thank you. I appreciate the guidance!

  25. #25
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Sorry guys, I apologize. That float bracket is aluminum like SEFYK stated. It's been a long time since I've seen one. I stand corrected. I did some research since his post and it is made from 7075-T6 Al. Therefore its unweldable. You would have to put a bushing in it. I would make a bushing out of the same material.

    John

  26. #26
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    EDO Fitting.jpgHere is the picture of my fitting. Notice the elongated hole.

  27. #27
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    Here is the picture of my fitting. Notice the elongated hole.
    That looks like a stretched hole! I see a little filiform corrosion too on the other surfaces. The outline of the end fork has also left a scar (I enlarged the photo). The edge distance looks OK for a rework.

    I did a FAA SDR search for EDO float fittings P/N 69747) found no hits.

    Thank you for the picture. How are the other parts of your project progressing?

  28. #28
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    Since I change from the old EDO 2000's to new Wipline 2100A the other parts of the float installation are new.

  29. #29
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    3,030
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    Since I change from the old EDO 2000's to new Wipline 2100A the other parts of the float installation are new.
    Since you have new Wipline 2100A floats those fittings should have come with the new floats. That fitting is part of a float installation kit which comes from the respective float manufacturer with the floats.
    N1PA

  30. #30
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    Since I change from the old EDO 2000's to new Wipline 2100A the other parts of the float installation are new.
    Awsome Dude! I love mine!100_0488.jpg

  31. #31
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    I have bought my Wiplines second hand without the fittings. According to the wipline installation drawing the EDO fittings can be used, only the attachment hole for the rear strut bolt has to be drilled out to 3/8 in order to get the AN6 Bolt in.

  32. #32
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    I have bought my Wiplines second hand without the fittings. According to the wipline installation drawing the EDO fittings can be used, only the attachment hole for the rear strut bolt has to be drilled out to 3/8 in order to get the AN6 Bolt in.
    When you purchased the floats did you purchase the STC too.?

  33. #33
    SEFYK's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    45
    Post Thanks / Like
    I got a new STC from Wipaire.

  34. #34
    aktango58's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    18AA
    Posts
    6,083
    Post Thanks / Like
    Note,

    If you make this part, you need to have the aluminum sent to a heat treating places and have them anneal the aluminum, then bend it, then re treat it!

    If you do not, it will crack when you bend it.

    Also, use a roller that spans beyond the edges of the material you are bending.

    Have extra stock, it will take a couple of tries to figure out how much to bend it for the spring back to be correct.

    I have a couple of feet of this stock annealed some where from a previous project... hence my statement above
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  35. #35
    8GCBC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    OR HI CA QLD CH
    Posts
    1,453
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by SEFYK View Post
    I got a new STC from Wipaire.
    Wipaire should be helpful too. Just email or call 24/7 hotline.
    Last edited by 8GCBC; 05-02-2012 at 10:48 AM.

  36. #36
    cubunltd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Belle Vernon,PA
    Posts
    1,118
    Post Thanks / Like
    Put a pressed in bushing in it made from 7075-T6 Al. Looks like edge distance is plenty. keep od of the bushing small enough to maintain the edge distance.

    John

Similar Threads

  1. AK Bushpod and Bolt-on Float Fittings...How to modify
    By WindOnHisNose in forum Modifications
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-28-2011, 09:50 PM
  2. Bolt On Float Fittings...
    By FlipFlop in forum Modifications
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 11-20-2006, 08:32 AM
  3. Float fittings Bolt on vs Weld on
    By Jerry Gaston in forum Cafe Supercub
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-01-2006, 02:11 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •