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N3150P Expermental PA11

Finish the mounting of the Charger and mount for the Fire Dept's 800 Mhz digital radio. Only thing left is the Dynon Com Radio and the PS PMS 4000.
Put the fuselage on the rotator to finish up the final welding.

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Roger,
It is looking great. I am curious as to why you chose to install a fuel header tank in your lap? I believe that running a fuel line from both the front and rear of the wing fuel tank through a "T" would achieve the same level of safety. That is unless you expect to have an extremely high angle of attack during climbs? I do believe that those planes with the header tanks only have one wing tank outlet.
 
We are still kicking that one around. I had put it in the last one so it got rigged in this one. Has not got welded up yet and may not make the final cut. When on floats, usually fly real light on fuel and have had one tank empty and felt it provided some safety keeping the engine running on long slips ect. Maybe I just need to quit keeping bandaids in both my pants pocket and survival kit. Thanks for the input. Interested in what others think.
 
And I do have valves on both. Can't see any problem with your reasoning. You just get in a habit of doing something 1 way and don't rethink the old stuff. That is why I like posting on this forum.
 
I personally like having a header tank. On my planes original configuration, I didn't have the header tank. I had both front and back pickups. I spiraled down 7 or 800 feet once to buzz some friends who were driving around in foot deep snow, and when I leveled off, the enging nearly quit. I switched tanks right away and it caught right away, good thing because I would have wrecked in that deep snow. After that, I put a header tank in. Just my opinon.
 
skywagon8a said:
Roger,
It is looking great. I am curious as to why you chose to install a fuel header tank in your lap? I believe that running a fuel line from both the front and rear of the wing fuel tank through a "T" would achieve the same level of safety. That is unless you expect to have an extremely high angle of attack during climbs? I do believe that those planes with the header tanks only have one wing tank outlet.
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Pete,

The original Super Cub design (which had header tanks) has a forward and aft pickup in the left tank, and an aft pickup only in the right tank. The theory was that the left tank was standard equipment in the earliest of these designs (PA 11), and the right tank was optional. Thus the left tank is the "Main" tank, and is to be used for maneuvering flight. The right tank is to be used primarily in level flight. I forget the precise wording in the owners' manual, but it's to that effect. Thus the airplane meets the fuel delivery requirements during maneuvering flight, since the left tank is supposed to be used in this case, and it has front and back pickups AND a header tank.

I too like header tanks. There seems to be a great deal of concern about gas in one's lap in the event of an accident, yet I've never heard of that being a problem, though perhaps it has. In any case, the same people who worry so much about that fly all the time with glass sight guages right above their heads.....

I like header tanks. It's nice to have that little extra gas always available to the engine. Consider that the CC-18-180 Top Cub, which is equipped with that system, has SIX GALLONS of unuseable fuel, according to the certification. I suspect that has to do with the system being able to deliver fuel reliably in all "normal flight attitudes"......

MTV
 
Mike I agree with everything you said. Apparently CC was willing to accept the 6 gallon unusable fuel number. Is this also noted in their STC for eliminating the headers and installing the "both on" fuel valve in the 18? The "unusable fuel" test is done while flying unusual maneuvering attitudes using one "main" tank until the engine sputters. Then measuring what is left when the tank is drained on the ground. If it were permitted to perform this test with both tanks "on" then I am sure that the unusable fuel number would be much less. And, if that were the case then there would be a placard that would require the fuel valve to be on "both" when below a certain fuel level. Piper, no doubt, simplified the process by placarding the right tank "for use in level flight only". This was done in the Colt also.

There is also a weight and balance consideration. If there is only one header tank behind the firewall then the CG would be held a little further forward. With two headers they would balance each other.
 
I have never seen a ruptured header tank. It is usually the wing tanks that dump the fuel. I have never flown without a header tank except in my wife's 172 had had the engine quit twice because of gas feed problems. Never had that happen in a cub. If it had had a header tank with a vent out the top of it, it would not have happened in her plane either.
Sure appreciate the comments.
 
Here is a pict of the 12 volt to 5 volt DC to DC converter that I am putting on one of the outputs of the Vertical Power unit to give me my 5 volt supply for chargers ect. Easier than building one for a buck and then having to worry about packaging.Screen Shot 2012-03-18 at 7.27.43 AM.png
 

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Got it ready to go to the Powder Coating Co. Let it sit for 2 to 3 days in case we forgot something. Had a short celebration and then had a beer.

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Then we decided to weigh it.
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The 225 is with seats, wheels . Will weigh the same way when it comes back from Powder.
 

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Waiting for some Cat 5 receptacles and the radio and intercom. The big box on the left is for the Fire Dept handheld. Also have vinyl letters coming for the switches.

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I got home from Canada and was ready to start finishing the plane as it had been powder coated during the summer. Well, the primer coat had been cured too long and the red was not stuck good enough, so back to the powder coater. Got it back yesterday and started the final build. Here are some Picts.
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nice to see somebody build something rather than an assembly project. I just don't know why you need a TV Screen in a Pa-11.
I just finished a 10 year knock off cub project with an O-235. I built every part from scratch and I mean every part... Have less than 15K in the entire project.
 
don d said:
nice to see somebody build something rather than an assembly project. I just don't know why you need a TV Screen in a Pa-11.
I just finished a 10 year knock off cub project with an O-235. I built every part from scratch and I mean every part... Have less than 15K in the entire project.
Click to expand...

With the auto pilot, I got nothing to do, so I just watch TV.
 
Mark Cav said:
Roger, what did you weld all the tubes up with? Tig, Mig, torch? Thanks
Mark
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Mark the plane was tacked with mig and welded out with tig. The orig tacks were gone over with tig. That way one person can hold a piece and stick it in place.
 
Roger , thanks . I thought thats how you did it. Where you using mild filler rod for tig or did you stay with 4130 filler rods. I have done alot of Tig welding with 4130. If area is not to be heat treated/stress relieved, mild filler rod will do. Just interested in procedure.
Mark
 
We don't bother with 4130 rods, just use mild steel. Have done some testing and can't break the weld with mild steel, so just stay with that.
 
Finally getting back on the plane and making some progress.
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The hole in the left side of the panel is to receive a fire dept 700 mhz handheld and also
have a tactical radio adapter installed so that it can be used as com 2.
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I also just got my sample of Oratex fabric and ran a test cover on the top of a old rudder. Quick cut some tapes and put glue on them to try and see how the finishing tapes go on. I am sure theirs are lot better than mine. Also ran a test of applying fabric direct to alum and we thought we might try that as a alternative to painting the cowl and the bottom fuselage panels.
Results: Far better than expected. Glue is really strong. Probably the strongest I have ever used. Finish is great, no paint. No smell, everything works as advertised.
If the test of trying to take the fabric is a success, we will be using it on the fuselage and all the tail surfaces. Will remove the stewarts that is on the rudder and recover.
The wings are already to paint in Stewarts, so will try to match the paint to the Oratex.
As for covering the cowl. Looks like it will take the heat and the adhesion is great. Can't see a down side so far. Wish I hadn't bothered to do all the work on the inside with the Kydex as this would really save weight and would probably look lot better also.
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Have been doing fabric work for years on everything from J3's to WWII bombers and fighters. Finally it looks like a system that takes the work out of it and is really light. Also the strongest fabric for the weight I have seen.
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Finally getting back on the plane and making some progress.
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I also just got my sample of Oratex fabric and ran a test cover on the top of a old rudder. Quick cut some tapes and put glue on them to try and see how the finishing tapes go on. I am sure theirs are lot better than mine. Also ran a test of applying fabric direct to alum and we thought we might try that as a alternative to painting the cowl and the bottom fuselage panels.
Results: Far better than expected. Glue is really strong. Probably the strongest I have ever used. Finish is great, no paint. No smell, everything works as advertised.
If the test of trying to take the fabric off is a success, we will be using it on the fuselage and all the tail surfaces. Will remove the stewarts that is on the rudder and recover.
The wings are already to paint in Stewarts, so will try to match the paint to the Oratex.
As for covering the cowl. Looks like it will take the heat and the adhesion is great. Can't see a down side so far. Wish I hadn't bothered to do all the work on the inside with the Kydex as this would really save weight and would probably look lot better also.
IMG_0258.jpg

Have been doing fabric work for years on everything from J3's to WWII bombers and fighters. Finally it looks like a system that takes the work out of it and is really light. Also the strongest fabric for the weight I have seen.
IMG_02661.jpg


IMG_02672.jpg


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The batteries weigh 10.8# each. These two batteries were purchased in 2004 and put in my float plane. I replaced them in 2000 as I figured 6 years was plenty and I wanted fresh ones when out on some remote lake in Canada. They still test over 85% so am going to put them in this new one. One battery starts the plane fine, but I didn't want to run short of juice when out on some remote lake on a cold morning.
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We mounted the rudder pedals with the screws coming in from the bottom and made threaded nut plates for the top. This way we can take out the floor boards without messing with the pedals. I did take the plates off and power coat them before I did the final assembly.
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What do you figure the cost will be to cover an entire ariplane with this Oratex fabric? I have been watching this for awhile now and may consider this on my next project as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg! It sounds like like it could be the next big thing for tube and fabric airplanes.
 
Super11XP said:
What do you figure the cost will be to cover an entire ariplane with this Oratex fabric? I have been watching this for awhile now and may consider this on my next project as long as it doesn't cost an arm and a leg! It sounds like like it could be the next big thing for tube and fabric airplanes.
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Have a request in for their pricing and will let you know as soon as I get it.To me it is worth quite a bit if I don't have to paint all that stuff. Just wish I didn't have my wings ready to paint in Stewarts, and that was the best stuff I had ever seen, but it looks like this has it beat hands down. A lot of unknowns yet, but will take complete picts and post my experiences in case anyone else gives it a try.
So far the only one that has posted on this site is: http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?43467-Light-fabric&highlight=Oratex
 
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