Re-rigging Federal 2200 hydraulic skis
- Thread starter WindOnHisNose
- Start date
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Many thanks to all who contributed! Darrel, I'll be back tomorrow afternoon...thanks for guiding the discussion!
Randy
Randy
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
I spoke with Stewart Barnes yesterday, and he suggested that consideration be given to installing a safety cable running from the back of the ski to the aircraft. He said Randy Kilbourn might be able to provide some insight, as they have them on the Cessnas operated by K2 Aviation. I have emailed Randy and will post his response. Anyone made this mod?
Randy
Randy
skywagon8a
MEMBER
SE Mass MA6
Randy, Check in AC 43.13 for ski installation guidance. A copy can be downloaded here. You will see that a safety cable is part of the guidance. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/74417
AC 43.13-1B CHG 1 9/27/01
9-8. FLOATS AND SKIS.
AC 43.13-1B CHG 1 9/27/01
9-8. FLOATS AND SKIS.
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Stewart Barnes sent me a link to a previous thread, discussing failure of the aft cable:
[FONT="]http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-39924.html?[/FONT]
GeorgeMandes began it with an air-to-air photo of a friend's plane whose rear cable attachment failed:
I don't want this to happen to me.
Randy
[FONT="]http://www.supercub.org/forum/archive/index.php/t-39924.html?[/FONT]
GeorgeMandes began it with an air-to-air photo of a friend's plane whose rear cable attachment failed:
I don't want this to happen to me.
Randy
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Darrel Starr
Registered User
Plymouth, MN
We are working on Randy's skis and have a question regarding the width of the plastic bottoms. We made them wider than the originals and 1/4 inch thick. Now we are wondering if the straight edges that don't follow the original upturned sides are going to scoop up snow. Any thoughts? Should we cut the plastic to a narrow size so the flared metal of the skis will come into play in a turn?
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arcticairalaska
Registered User
Fairbanks, Alaska
Randy,
I never use anything other than 1/8". 1/4" is way to heavy. If you extend out beyond the edge on the bottom you need to put the plastic in a brake and bend it up the same profile as the ski bottoms.
I never use anything other than 1/8". 1/4" is way to heavy. If you extend out beyond the edge on the bottom you need to put the plastic in a brake and bend it up the same profile as the ski bottoms.
arcticairalaska
Registered User
Fairbanks, Alaska
Randy,
I have 1/8" on C-2200's, C-3600's, Fluidyne 4000's and my Aero 3000's fixed skis. I rivet with soft rivets. I may need to replace more often than 3/16" but the additional weight may be what gets you stuck deeper than the lighter weight.
I have 1/8" on C-2200's, C-3600's, Fluidyne 4000's and my Aero 3000's fixed skis. I rivet with soft rivets. I may need to replace more often than 3/16" but the additional weight may be what gets you stuck deeper than the lighter weight.
SteveE
SPONSOR
Jenks, OK
I did the weight calc for aero 2000's. It was 5 lbs more per ski by putting 1/4 " instead of 1/8". Not sure 10 lbs will be the difference in getting stuck or not. A bunch of old threads say go 1/4" and bend the sides up a bit. I chose 1/4" because of all the rocks we have around here and don't always have perfect snow cover.
arcticairalaska
Registered User
Fairbanks, Alaska
Steve,
Did you notice that I said stuck deeper. If you spend much time in the interior of Alaska during a deep snow year you will get stuck.
Did you notice that I said stuck deeper. If you spend much time in the interior of Alaska during a deep snow year you will get stuck.
.
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Mike Vivion and others strongly suggested, in this thread and in pm's, to put on 1/4" plastic bottoms. Steve Eaton, thanks for doing the calculations...I didn't because it didn't feel much heavier, frankly, between the 1/4" and the plastic we replaced. We will know the answer when we do the final weight calculations, but I really don't think each ski bottom weighed much over 7 lbs each. Knowing Darrel and Bob, they will read this thread and do the numbers tomorrow, and we will get back to you. One of the reasons for reworking the ski bottoms was the finding of significant breaks/cracks in the old ski bottoms. The idea of a tougher, thicker bottom is appealing, as Steve Eaton pointed out, for some of the stuff we land on around here.
The 1/4" was really easy to work with. Easy to cut, easy to bend. Darrel will be taking photos of the project and posting them here, soon. We followed a number of peoples suggestions and used strips of the 1/4" plastic instead of the aluminum skid strips, to reduce the "stickiness" of the skis.
The 1/4" was really easy to work with. Easy to cut, easy to bend. Darrel will be taking photos of the project and posting them here, soon. We followed a number of peoples suggestions and used strips of the 1/4" plastic instead of the aluminum skid strips, to reduce the "stickiness" of the skis.
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
We should also mention that putting the brake calipers on the Atlee Dodge 3" extended gear is a bit of a challenge, in that the pre-welded bracket is too close for comfort to the brake caliper, when the calipers are at the 10:00 position. While we could move the caliper to the upper back location, or lower back location, it will be necessary to remove the tire/wheel assembly to service the brake pads. We decided to grind off a small portion of the bracket to permit adequate clearance from the nearest part of the caliper.
Randy
Randy
Darrel Starr
Registered User
Plymouth, MN
So the remaining question is: Should we leave the plastic sheets as is, try to bend them on a brake to match the metal bottom flares on the side or reduce the width of the plastic to match the metal out to where the metal flares? Need to tap the SC.org knowledge base!
Just now reviewing this photo -- it seems to me that if we bend up the plastic, that will almost certainly stiffen the edge of the plastic so much that we will then not be able to successfully force the plastic along a longitudinal bend line -- sound correct? Also, I don't think a straight bend line will follow the shape of the flare. If that is true then the only choice is to leave it as is or reduce the width of the plastic to match the flat part of the metal bottom.
Just now reviewing this photo -- it seems to me that if we bend up the plastic, that will almost certainly stiffen the edge of the plastic so much that we will then not be able to successfully force the plastic along a longitudinal bend line -- sound correct? Also, I don't think a straight bend line will follow the shape of the flare. If that is true then the only choice is to leave it as is or reduce the width of the plastic to match the flat part of the metal bottom.
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WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Sandy, I think CaptainRon used 3/16" plastic on his thread, and alluded to the fact that he considered using 1/4". I appreciate the thoughts you expressed regarding weight, however. We will keep an eye on it.
Regarding extending the plastic beyond the edge of the ski, we were highly encouraged to do so by a number of reputable people, as a way of adding more flotation to the ski. Noone mentioned braking the plastic, though, so your suggestion is being carefully weighed here, so to speak. I am concerned that we would have a heck of a time putting enough of a bend on the plastic to make it match the bend of the aluminum ski.
The reason for Darrel posting the photos of the plastic edges was to see if anyone had experience extending the ski bottoms.
Randy
irishfield
Registered User
Penetanguishene, Ontario Canada
As per TJ ... get the spring clamps out and start heating.
Darrel Starr
Registered User
Plymouth, MN
We do have a heat gun so could do a little experimenting -- does anyone have a picture to post of skis with plastic bottoms bent up in this manner? Any more details about the procedure?
And, if possible, could someone who has extended the width of plastic out flat like the picture of Randy's comment on the ground handling? Any problems turning on the ground?
And, if possible, could someone who has extended the width of plastic out flat like the picture of Randy's comment on the ground handling? Any problems turning on the ground?
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Darrel Starr
Registered User
Plymouth, MN
One new bottom cut out and temporarily installed awaiting new stainless hardware. The weight increase is 5.9 lb per ski vs the old 0.142 thick pieces and thin aluminum strips -- 11.8 lb total increase for the installation.
New Pieces -- net 11.1 lb.
Old Pieces -- net 5.2 lb.
New Pieces -- net 11.1 lb.
Old Pieces -- net 5.2 lb.
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Darrel Starr
Registered User
Plymouth, MN
cubflier
MEMBER
Palmer, AK
I have the same questions concerning a pair of Fluidyne 3000's that I would like to extend the width of the bottoms. The photos above look like a disaster in a sliding turn. I read TJ's post on apply heat but it seems that you would have a heck of time making that outside edge bend up to match the existing profile of the original bend in the ski. Any pictures or experience extending bottoms on this type of ski?
Jerry
mike mcs repair
Registered User
chugiak AK
Heat works fine.... I have plenty of scraps if you want to practice... CAC has a big scrap bin too....
WindOnHisNose
BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
Jerry, I paid heed to the advice and bent the edges, using a hot air gun. I bought an industrial-size hot air gun from Milwaukee, clamped between the plastic bottom and the curved edges of the metal ski, using a series of clamps, heated the plastic bottom and did so very, very carefully so as not to get the plastic too hot. The plastic bent up nicely.
I found that the heat gun was so effective that it melted the plastic feet that cover the clamps. The remedy was to put a long piece of 1/4 inch thick aluminum strip between the clamp feet and the plastic bottom. Worked great.
I kept the clamps in place until the plastic had cooled. The plastic lost a bit of the bend upon removing the clamps but there was plenty of bend remaining. That plastic is amazing stuff. You may recall that I used 1/4" plastic. I would bet that the 3/16" would bend even easier.
The Milwaukee heat gun is amazing! Highly recommend it.
Randy
I found that the heat gun was so effective that it melted the plastic feet that cover the clamps. The remedy was to put a long piece of 1/4 inch thick aluminum strip between the clamp feet and the plastic bottom. Worked great.
I kept the clamps in place until the plastic had cooled. The plastic lost a bit of the bend upon removing the clamps but there was plenty of bend remaining. That plastic is amazing stuff. You may recall that I used 1/4" plastic. I would bet that the 3/16" would bend even easier.
The Milwaukee heat gun is amazing! Highly recommend it.
Randy
I can't find my bolt that attaches the ski to the axle. Parts book calls for a bolt PN 11A1377-1. Tried calling Wipline but had no luck, just got an answering machine. Was hoping to run to the local store to pick up a bolt, is this a specialty hardware bolt? Any of you have a good cross reference for a bolt I can purchase at Stoddards?
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