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Re-rigging Federal 2200 hydraulic skis

WindOnHisNose

BENEFACTOR
Lino Lakes MN (MY18)
I am about to (with the help of Dr. Darrel Starr and Bob Eckstein) install Atlee Dodge extended, heavy duty gear on my PA18. That will necessitate rerigging my Federal hydraulic skis, and I am trying to determine how to re-rig the skis for use with the extended gear. Anyone have experience doing this?

Many, many thanks. Not only do I depend upon these skis being re-rigged, so does Santa.
IMG_3127.JPG

enuf said. Please help me and Santa get his sleigh in shape for Christmas!

Randy
 

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Randy

The check cables should change in length. Changing the gears is simple and straight forward (I manged it by myself this summer), you did get the longer shock struts also? Enjoy!
 
appears to not have riggers... looking at the picture...

cables parallell and same length is a good start.
 
These look like Fluidyne C-2200 skis to me???

Randy, when the skis retract, do the tires rest on top of the skis?

If so, the riggers are, as Mike says, inside the rear tunnel.

I think Mike hit the nail on the head. Rig them so that the tails of the skis are as close to the ground as practical with the skis in the "up" position.

Basically rig them to the same angle as you have now, but with the longer cables to accomodate the longer gear.

MTV
 
Here are some photos that might help...
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Mike V, the tires do rest on top of the skis, when retracted.

I am unclear as to what you folks mean by "riggers"? Do these photos help you determine this?

Randy
 

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I have always rigged mine with the tails off the ground about 2-3 inches. This not only gave me adequate tip up profile when the skis were down, but also allows me to operate off gravel bars and beaches without beating the crap out of the skis. I am not a beleaver of "rig them as close to ground" as you can. Now, I have never had 2200, but 2500 and 3600.

I also run 8:50s rather than 8:00s.
On my AWB 2500 I use 8:50s with limited tread (air services will give you their old ones) but no cord showing. I have seen folks run 26" Bushwheels. You may not be able to up size the tire on 2200, but I can on AWB 2500 and 3600.
 
Actually with the awb 2500 you cant get the right position without the tails dragging in wheel position. Thats why you must compensate and just clear the ground with the tails. (this was also using atlee springs in additon to the riggers. Maybe thats where we are diffrent)
 
Dr. Randy is runnng 8.50 X 6 Goodyear tires, just to clarify.

He asked me to look at how to disassemble the hydraulics out of the ski so he can have the skis cleaned, stripped, primed, painted and reassembled with new hoses, hardware, etc.
Since I haven't had skis apart, please check to see if I have the disassembly sequence correct. Comments? Does the cylinder tail end pin usually come out easily?
Ski Exploded View.jpg
Cover for Hyd plus text.jpg
Tail End Pin with Text.jpg
I figure that once the cylinder and hoses are out of the way, the shaft for the lever and the lever itself can be removed.
Am I missing anything -- is this generally the correct sequence?
Actually as I look at the exploded view again, it looks like the large cross shaft and pieces attached to it have to come out before the cylinder can be pulled out -- correct?
 

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Mike

That has not been my experience and I am sure the design was not intended for them to drag. Look at my tag picture, those are 2500's I operated with for several years on and off beaches, the tails Are like new.

Respectively,
Bill
 
Mike...
I am sure the design was not intended for them to drag...
Bill

they(skis & riggers) were never designed to be installed on a cub....(& amount of rigger travel wise..).... slightly more travel internally in the riggers would allow the angles to be meet.....
 
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RIGGERS
Hey guys! What is a rigger? Is that an Alaskan term for something? I've not had a lot of ski experience as we don't do much of it around here and have never heard that term in relation to skis.
 
what is different will be the way the mounts on the gear are C 2200s had bolt on gear atachments,some welded but they extend 90 degrees to front gear leg,atlees new ones extend down at a 45 degree,I still have old ones,I have talked with steve and wip air,they say this is for bigger tires but the new c2200 have a longer swing arm.so in thelocked up this will move the ski back one inch or so, is STC weigh and balance,legal? should have field approval.call if you want 414 791 9872 Ted
 
Dr. Randy is runnng 8.50 X 6 Goodyear tires, just to clarify.

He asked me to look at how to disassemble the hydraulics out of the ski so he can have the skis cleaned, stripped, primed, painted and reassembled with new hoses, hardware, etc.
Since I haven't had skis apart, please check to see if I have the disassembly sequence correct. Comments? Does the cylinder tail end pin usually come out easily?
View attachment 3997
View attachment 3998
View attachment 3999
I figure that once the cylinder and hoses are out of the way, the shaft for the lever and the lever itself can be removed.
Am I missing anything -- is this generally the correct sequence?
Actually as I look at the exploded view again, it looks like the large cross shaft and pieces attached to it have to come out before the cylinder can be pulled out -- correct?

Anyone have suggestion as to how to get to the bungees? I think I want to replace them, as well.

I, too, would like to know what you are referring to as "riggers"...

Randy
 
I see yours are ser # 120 made in 1959,mine are ser #140 made in 1961.they must of made only 10 or so a year. there is a thread on rebuilding these on here some place. wip air has all the parts you will need.
 
RIGGERS
Hey guys! What is a rigger? Is that an Alaskan term for something? I've not had a lot of ski experience as we don't do much of it around here and have never heard that term in relation to skis.

on AWB the all the guts are outside, unlike his in this thread

the riggers are those round things on skis in middle of ski/pic(that thing at about a 45 deg angle) and connect to a bracket on gear to position the skis, have springs or such in them to allow some movement...

09161527709.jpg
 
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Darrel,
If you have the complete set of prints, they show how to rig and have a complete picture of the internal working of the skis. If you take the cover off the skis it is easy to figure on how to get the hydraulics and bungies out of the skis. I replace my internal bungies on my 2200 & 3600 every two to three years. If you can't get the heels up at least 1 1/2" in the ski up position than the internal bungies are weak. Replacing the internal bungies are not for the weak of heart. Mine see a lot of use during the winter. On most cubs the CG will be out forward with the skis in the up position. The long swing arms are worse for forward CG on paper but the aircraft doesn't know that.:lol: My 185 will drag the tails with 8:50s at gross weight but I am at 3600 # gross. If I put more air in the tires it doesn't happen but it cuts down the shock absorption when landing in rough snow.
 
Thanks articairalaska - We do have a picture of the bungie location too from the parts book so that looks doable also. I don't like messing with bungies and I don't think Randy's surgeon's hands need to be in harm's way so I am going to advise him to have Wip or some other experienced A&P install those.
Ski Exploded View 02.jpg
 

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Rigger is the nomenclature that the ski manufacturer used. Minnesota term?? The AWB rigger is a cylinder with a spring inside that is mounted outside of the tunnel (looks like a hydraulic cylinder) that "sets" the ski for approximately "level" flight. Fluidyne/FliLite Riggers: basically it's a bungee ring (smaller than the front bungees by far) that goes on a shaft/slider/limiter assembly that provides some "give" to the rear check cable. On Fluidyne's, it's inside the ski tunnel. On FliLites, it's mounted at top of the rear check cable at the fuselage tab location.

On Fluidyne's I'm not a fan of the "rig them as close to the ground as possible" method. I believe that 3 inches clearance at the tail is better because it is more clearance for gravel operations and also.....When in "SKI" position, the nose of the ski is not "way the hell up in the air" and draggy, but in a more "level" attitude if starting with about 3 inches at the tail in the "WHEEL" position. I must qualify this by stating most of my experience, and all recent experience rigging and refurbishing/repairing/rebuilding Fluidyne's has been on 180/185's, and the above statement applies to them for SURE.

Check all of the "tunnel cover" nutplates. That cover is structural, and the fasteners MUST all do their job.

I see your original gear was "light duty". DAMN...you must be smooth to keep that stuff together on wheel skis.

Also, I see you have a 'retension' cable....in other words, your front safety cables are running through the middle of the springs to retain them if they fail...GREAT....and make sure when you fabricate new cables that an anti-chafe sleeve protects the springs from cable chafe. Clear vinyl water hose from Home Depot works great for this.
 
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Randy's calipers are on the bottom at the present - see picture. When the new gear goes on, where should the calipers go so they will best clear the skis -- Forward, top, rear, bottom?
P1040155 cropped.jpg
Here is a possibility, front location -- another SC at KANE
Super Cub tech photos 214.jpg
 

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in those photos you can see what I was taking about . ,the two tabs or swing arm,mount point, were the bolt that conects ski to leg,were the yellow ends and white starts is down at 45 degrees from front of gear leg,and no extra bar in front of gear,don,t know if swing arm on new ones is longer.see Randys is out at 90 degrees or same as flight path.The weld marks on randys swing arms are not on mine,maybe his had been modifyed in past.I am going to call wip air and talk to them about if the swing arms on ours are the same lengh as new ones,STC says you must use that extra bar to suport leg,were does is say OK not to with our ser# skis?
 
Darrel,
Another picture for you showing a Atlee bolt on bracket.PA250026.JPG
and brake location.
 

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Thanks guys for all the help. Please keep it coming. Randy's new 3 inch Atlee gear has the ski fittings welded on. Also, if this helps, the yellow SC on skis pictured above has 3 inch gear also.
 
Darrel,
This is what I use for the front ski bungie mount for the c-2200 and straight skis.PA250020.JPG
 

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Randy,
It is an 3/8" AN46 drilled shank eye bolt 3 3/4" long with a 1 3/4" 4130 sleeve to space it from the engine mount. I think I got them fromWicks or Aviall.
 
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