Page 52 of 53 FirstFirst ... 24250515253 LastLast
Results 2,041 to 2,080 of 2091

Thread: Building a Javron Cub

  1. #2041

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Another Javron in the air

    WP_20160921_005.jpgHi Bill, my Javron flew last wednesday,...what a great feeling. Your thread has been an inspiration and I am in your debt. If you ever make it to Ireland, it's at your disposal. All the best and thank you very much. Peter

  2. #2042
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Peter

    Looks awesome. Glad I could help a little, but you did all the work, so a huge CONGRATULATIONS!! to you.

    Great job. Since Ireland is my favorite European country I might take you up on that offer someday.

    Great Job!! Congratulations!!

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 10-02-2016 at 10:09 AM.
    Very Blessed.

  3. #2043

    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like
    I look forward to it Bill, thanks. Peter

  4. #2044
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Folks

    After returning from Alaska, things have been pretty busy and I have had limited time to pursue Cub stuff much. But as I came back to this thread to respond to Peter (from Ireland in the post above) I realized this long thread had sorta died on a pretty unhappy note. I can't let that stand.

    I feel a strong desire to let you fine folks know that things came out well and they are still going well. I'm sure a lot of folks did not look at the other thread so may not know things turned out just fine (PTL). Sooooo.......to keep this thread from ending on a downer......... I am going to post a few photos.


    Post flip I worked on the plane for about 7 days, then had to go back to the lower 48 to work. When I returned in the first week of June, DW came up, and we worked about another day, and she was ready to fly and return to adventuring.



    Taxi out for the first flight after the bath



    At the Big Shaheen Cabin.



    DW and I



    At the Petersburg cabin. DW had to go home and I stayed another couple of weeks in June just flying, fishing, hiking, camping, etc
    Then I had to return home once again to work for a bit.


    When I returned in July to continue the adventure, my sister came up and spent a few days with me, exploring Alaska.



    Cub at Baranof lake, SE of Sitka.



    Mona at Jims Lake Cabin.



    We spent a day at Skagway. Neat little town. After a few days Sis had to go back to work so I dropped her in Juneau (with the promise that she had a seat reserved for next year) and picked up my next visitor.



    Mark on the floats in Misty Fiords on Wilson Lake



    Mark took this Panoramic shot at Swan Lake



    Enjoyed lots of Trout dinners



    On the dock at Nimpo Lake, BC



    Safely home after a summer in Alaska



    Lest you think that was, or is, the end.......I flew it to Oshkosh and to New Holstein after getting home from AK. Then gave a few rides and flew it a few more times until other life events slowed things down a bit.



    Mark and Cal came over today and helped me get the floats off for the winter. I'm on the "injured reserves" list so I provided the "supervision" and they performed the labor. Thanks gents!!

    First we had to install a hoist.....



    Disconnecting everything



    Look Ma.....no feet........



    Back on wheels. I still have work to do but this whole thing was done in a little over two hours.






    The plan this winter is to do a thorough annual (Condition Inspection), make some improvements, and get it ready for another summer in Alaska in 2017, once again on floats, and at least part of the time, back in the SE.

    As I work on the Cub this winter, if I come upon something that might be helpful to others, I will continue this thread.

    Thanks again for following


    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 10-01-2016 at 08:42 PM.
    Very Blessed.
    Likes WanaBNACub liked this post

  5. #2045
    ceslaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    157
    Post Thanks / Like
    That post put a big exclamation mark on the end of your excellent build blog. Excellent post. What an adventure you have had!

  6. #2046
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Folks

    Its been a while since I posted. After returning from Alaska last summer I had a number of life events which took a little time away from Supercubing.
    I started a "extensive" annual condition inspection to include some rebuilding and some upgrades. I am getting close to being done with that and I would like to share a few things I learned along the way. Hopefully this will help.

    Here is a link to my post on mounting my ELT (Kannad Integra) antennae http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post625418

    and my comment from another post.....And therein lies the delimma. When I was mounting my antenna I called Kannad and spoke to one of the engineers (from India - hard to understand with his accent) and asked about the antenna orientation. He said it could pretty much be mounted any way you wanted, thus we have conflicting info. I do not know the "right" answer. If the airplane ends up upright after the mishap, I think Gary and Jr are correct, vertical is best. But if you go over on your back and the antenna gets ripped off or gets squashed.....?????? Who knows.....

    I do think the wing root fairing or tank cover gives a better base, and planar signal surface.


    Bolting the antennae straight to a tab on the fuselage tubing did not work. The unit would not pass the self test. In a rush to get to the Idaho fly-in and then to Alaska, I just grabbed a piece of scrap .016 AL and bolted it between the base of the antennae and the steel tab on the fuselage. This gave enough of a ground plane for it to work. It passed its self test and I went to AK. And by the way it worked. One of the things I wanted to do on the Annual was to improve on this a little.


    This is my new ground plane. It seems to work fine. In a perfect world it would be a full circle and all the star legs would be the same....yada,yada,yada.
    IT IS NOT A PERFECT WORLD
    There is a lot of info on the web if you want to search "Antennae Ground Plane"
    This is fabricated from .016 AL. I have seen where some folks have used what appears to be a metallic tape on the inside of the fabric. There are a lot of ways to skin this cat and I am certainly not qualified to tell you what to do or how to do it BUT.......I did want you to know that what I originally did (and posted) in this thread did not work, and that this new ground plane pictured above does work.
    More to follow.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-17-2017 at 03:06 PM.
    Very Blessed.
    Likes Greg Campbell liked this post

  7. #2047
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    In the process of the annual, one of the things I wanted to add was wig-wag landing lights. After flying around in the SE part of AK where rain with low vis and low ceilings are pretty much the norm I decided I wanted more visibility. In addition to low vis up there, the terrain also funnels everyone into the same channels, passes, etc. The importance of being seen, and seeing others, really got hammered home.


    So I added landing lights out in the wingtips. I contacted Javron and got his "light kit". It includes the pre-shaped lens cover, the precut and bent trim, etc. That really helped. The material removed (LE) was 7 oz and the mount, trim, and lens was 14 for a net gain of about 7 oz per side. The wires were 8.8 oz and Can't find the light weight. I'll get it.




    I used the Baja Designs Squadron Pro Flush Mount LED lights. These puppies crank out 4900 lumens and are relatively light.
    Link here https://www.bajadesigns.com/Products...ary-lights.asp
    Then I used a switch from Perihelion Designs that controls all the wig-wag in one simple toggle switch. Link here......
    http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagdmnl.htm

    It is really quite simple and light. I will edit this post when I get home with all the weights. I think, all up, including the lights, wire, mounting etc it added about 4 pounds. But......there's more......weight that is.......in order to drive this, and also the fuel pump on the fuel pod, (I'll post on that later) I needed more electrons. So I went from the B&C 8 amp alternator to the B&C 20 amp unit.


    This is the B&C 8 amp unit. It is the orange bell shaped thing. The new alternator fits with just a couple of "adjustments". See that knurled knob at the bottom of the oil filter? That is the Tac drive. Since I have electronic mags, I don't use that, as it is for the cable that connects to your tac. With electronic mags we take a electrical wire and electrical signal from the mags themselves to show our RPM. That little knurled knob is just a aluminum dust cover.


    This is the new B&C 20 amp alternator. There are a couple of these, the 410-H and the 425-H. The "410-H" is made for Lycoming and will clear that tac drive and allow you to use a tac cable. It is 6" long and is a REALLY tight fit (i.e. it doesn't fit) between the engine and the firewall. You have to either move the engine out a 1/2" via spacers that fit between the motor mount and the fuselage, or get a mount extended out 1/2" (Javron makes both the spacers and the mount, depending on which solution you opt for). My understanding is you can also get, via special request, B&C to make the wires that come out of the back of the alternator moved to where they come out the side of the alternator. This would also help with the tight fit between the firewall and the back of the alternator.
    The other option is to use the B&C 425-H. The website says this one is designed for Cont, Rotax and other engines. It will not clear the tac cable BUT is is about 3/4 inches shorter so it fits into the firewall. The mount to the engine is the same so it fits into the Lycoming engines just fine. No need to put a recess into the firewall or move the engine forward. So......I had two issues to adjust. The Tac drive cap, and the oil filter (Casper Labs unit).


    The little safety wire tab sticks out pretty far. I drilled a second hole a little closer to the base. then shaved off some of the tab and thus shortened it. That solved one issue. Looks like this......


    Shorter safety wire tab


    Then I sanded off a little of the side of the tac drive dust cap. Filled the break thru with JB weld so it is still intact as a dust cover.


    This is what the dust cover goes on, the tac drive. You can see that the top part has no threads, so I felt comfortable taking just a little off there. It is still fully functional and perfectly sound.


    And now we have clearance to the alternator. Plenty of room between the firewall and back of the alternator to get it on and off and for all the wires and it fits nicely. So......you can use the 425-H if you shave the tac drive dust cover (assuming you are not using a tac drive cable) and you will not have firewall fit issues. Or you can go with the 410-H and it will clear the tac drive but you will have a tight fit to the firewall. Take your choice. They both work and have advantages and disadvantages. I am just trying to tell you what I have learned to help out.
    The 8 amp alt has several components that also must be mounted and considered. The 20 amp has just one regulator and is much simpler in that respect. The 8 amp worked quite well for me and I had no issues with it. But adding the wig-wag lights, and a fuel pump for the pod, would have been really pushing the limits of that unit. 20 Amps will be more than ample.
    Again I will try to remember to edit this post to add weights when I get home. Found my notes.....the 8 amp unit with all its condensers, regulators, relays, etc weighed 57.5 oz
    The 20 amp with its regulator weighed 97.9 oz
    Added weight is 40.4 oz or about 2.5 pounds

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-17-2017 at 07:10 PM.
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks Jasperfield thanked for this post

  8. #2048
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Folks

    In the process of the annual/rebuild I completely disassembled the airplane. The tail was removed, wings taken off, all interior removed, all controls, floorboards, etc removed. I went about as far as I could go without ripping the fabric off. I have been really surprised at how clean it is and how good of shape it is in. I have not found any dead fish or minnows. LOL
    Very little corrosion or rust. Probably no more than would be normal. The Cub has 325 hours on it and they have been pretty hard hours. It has been rained on a LOT, hailed on, snowed on, been on floats, in Idaho, and generally run hard. Often full of camping gear and often with a passenger. I am pleased. But I wanted to inspect, lubricate, adjust and in general go over it very carefully before heading North again.

    A list of some of the things done would be.......

    Removed and cleaned under floorboards
    Cleaned floorboards - no problems with delamination or water absorption
    Removed torque tube - cleaned and lubricated and reinstalled
    Lubricated all elevator, and rudder cables
    Removed, cleaned, inspected, and reinstalled brake master cyls
    Removed rudder pedals, and brake arms, inspected, cleaned and lubed all saddles - reinstalled - adjusted return springs for freedom of movement
    Removed all pulleys, inspected, lubed and reinstalled - dang there are a lot of cotter pins in there
    Fixed a tight left rudder pedal cable attach bracket
    Cleaned tail surfaces, cleaned and lubed all clevis pins - ......more cotter pins
    Replaced 3 tail VG's knocked off in helicopter lift out
    Installed a new and improved ELT ground plane - tested ELT
    Updated 406 contact info page with NOAA
    Removed horizontal stab through tubes, cleaned, inspected, lubed, reinstalled with new hardware
    Cleaned, lubed, inspected tail brace wires
    Removed the Princeton Fuel Probe system - this did not work well. The tanks are too shallow for the probes to give accurate info - saved 12 oz
    Adjusted the electric trim down stop. added another 1/4 travel or so
    Replaced the Ztron labs master relay. Unfortunately it was leaking a small amount of current draining the battery. Also, unfortunately, it is no longer being produced. Too bad, it was excellent. Not enough sales volume. Std master relay added one pound and one amp. SUCKS
    Adjusted throttle tension to prevent creeping
    Removed manifold pressure gage and sending unit. Just not used with a fixed pitch prop. Saved 4.25 oz
    Removed 8 amp alternator and install 20 amp unit. Redid a LOT of the wiring
    Installed fuel pod, and installed pump, plumbing, fittings, wiring, toggle switch, fuse etc. Tested for function
    Installed new door and window seals since I fly in the rain a lot. Gotta be tight
    Installed wig-wag landing lights in wing leading edges
    Installed and painted new headliner
    Built a whole new cowling, painted, etc
    Fabricated and installed a plenum for the engine

    ETC ETC ETC




    New headliner going in. Tried it again, still don't like Stewarts glue


    New headliner in and painted



    Made this "T" shaped brace to attach the plenum to. That way it is in two pieces and can be installed and removed without taking the cowl brace rails out. Used the baffling that was already there. The plenum should help with cooling but just as important (at least to me) it will reduce the stress and "working" of the cowling making it last longer and look better. I have not weighed it yet. I will report when I am finished as to its function and weight. The center bracket was made from .025 riveted together. The tops are .020


    Right side of plenum



    If you don't have one of these rivet drill jig tools, GET ONE, its the best thing ever!!


    This is the little cowl brace that attaches to the cowl brace channel and holds the channel up and in position. Hint....run a tap (say 10-32) in the hole and it will make removal and reinstall of the rails a LOT faster and easier when you are building and taking them on and off every 15 minutes. When you assemble for the last time use a longer screw and add a nut just to make sure. When the tube is flattened there is more than enough thickness there to run a tap in. Really Really helps make life easier.

    More to come.....Hope it helps

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-17-2017 at 07:39 PM.
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks flylowslow thanked for this post
    Likes fancypants liked this post

  9. #2049
    scout88305's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Northern Minnesota
    Posts
    1,537
    Post Thanks / Like
    WHEW!!! Like a newly minted coin. Very nice Bill
    Thank a sheepdog today for they are standing guard!
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

  10. #2050
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like

    Installed an Airglass LT32 fuel pod. Pod and mount hardware weighed 27.6. Fuel pump, lines, wires, fuses and switch added another 2.5 for a total of about 30 pounds. Last year I carried an extra 20 gallons (Four 5 Gallon jugs in the float lockers) and that helped on a couple of occasions. It gives you more options which increases safety. But the jugs themselves weighed 2.5 pounds each, so the net gain is closer to 20 pounds.....and it is a LOT easier to refuel. No more balancing on the strut and trying to lift 30 pounds over your shoulder, then starting a syphon. Now just flip a switch and it can be done in flight. Easy to remove when not needed.
    Perhaps the best part is it has less affect on the CG. The Whip float lockers are forward and any weight added in the lockers (i.e. 20 gallons of fuel), exacerbates an already forward CG tendency. With the pod the fuel is very close to the CG and thus less of a W&B issue.



    New cowling being built



    Taping off for the stripes. New decals ordered.


    I'll keep adding stuff as I go, if I think it might help someone else. Lord willing I'll get it all done and see you guys at the Trade Show in a couple of weeks.

    Hope this helps (or maybe just entertains)

    Bill
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks ceslaw thanked for this post
    Likes flylowslow, Dave Calkins, barbwire, ceslaw liked this post

  11. #2051
    Hardtailjohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Marion, MT
    Posts
    515
    Post Thanks / Like
    How can you NOT like Stewarts glue??????!!!!!!!!!! I've been using it since the mid 90's and can't remember a time I didn't like it!!
    John
    Likes Dave Calkins liked this post

  12. #2052
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bill,

    When are you headed north again?
    Last edited by Eddie Foy; 04-17-2017 at 07:33 PM.
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"

  13. #2053
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    How can you NOT like Stewarts glue??????!!!!!!!!!! I've been using it since the mid 90's and can't remember a time I didn't like it!!
    John
    Different strokes for different folks!
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
    Likes Hardtailjohn liked this post

  14. #2054
    Eddie Foy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    South Florida
    Posts
    2,080
    Post Thanks / Like
    You do pretty good work for a Lawn Dart driver!
    Eddie Foy
    "Put out my hand and touched the face of God"
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

  15. #2055
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Folks

    A little video so I can try to remember how to do all this.......man , it is amazing how quickly I can forget.......





    John - I know Stewarts glue is good, it's just me. It has no wet adhesion and that drives me nuts. If I ever get smart enough to figure out how to use it..........

    Eddy - Don't really know.....just depends on when I can get it all done and ready. Want your very own F-16?......just buy some land off the end of the runway. They're like Lawn Darts. LOL

    Bill
    (lets see if this works)
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks SpainCub thanked for this post

  16. #2056
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    318
    Post Thanks / Like

    Building a Javron Cub

    Looks good, and I like your wig-wag solution - much brighter and *lighter than mine!

    EDIT: for a typo!
    Last edited by CamTom12; 04-18-2017 at 06:30 PM.
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

  17. #2057
    jnorris's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Wow, that's a lot of work accomplished Bill! I got tired just reading your report!! Looks great though. Excellent, as usual.
    Joe

    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

  18. #2058
    little wing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    327
    Post Thanks / Like
    Great updates Bill! Guess something has happened with my subscription to your thread, haven't seen notification of the last few updates. Been too wrapped up in my own stuff. Congrats and hoping you'll keep the updates coming, to include AK PT II. Lots of fun living vicariously through your exploits. Thanks for all you do for us mortals!
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post
    Likes Greg Campbell liked this post

  19. #2059
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    6,876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Hmmmmm????? As usual you are doing wonderful work Bill and it is appreciated of all of the detail which you present in your posts. My question to myself is "why is this weight conscious guy adding the weight of this unnecessary collection of parts to his plane?", "Why two tops for his plenum?", "Why does he add unnecessary maintenance access to his engine?" and "What prompted this idea?, Did he have a defective cooling system?". The top cowl with the proper flexible baffling on the fixed baffles does a wonderful job of directing the cooling air without this extra plenum.
    N1PA
    Likes Dave Calkins liked this post

  20. #2060
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    skywagon8a

    All excellent questions. Why add the weight? Well part of the reason is to experiment. I want to see if this will make a difference. If I don't feel like it helps much I can assure you it will come off (just like the Princeton Fuel Probes and the MP gauge stuff)

    I guess the best answer I can give is .....I'm experimenting. I want to see if it makes a difference and if its worth it.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.
    Likes Eddie Foy, jnorris, gdafoe, spinner2, 5nines and 2 others liked this post

  21. #2061
    jnorris's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    674
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    I guess the best answer I can give is .....I'm experimenting. I want to see if it makes a difference and if its worth it.
    I love it! That's what it's all about! And I will be very interested to see the results.

    Thanks, Bill!!
    Joe

    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

  22. #2062

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    skywagon8a

    All excellent questions. Why add the weight? Well part of the reason is to experiment. I want to see if this will make a difference. If I don't feel like it helps much I can assure you it will come off (just like the Princeton Fuel Probes and the MP gauge stuff)

    I guess the best answer I can give is .....I'm experimenting. I want to see if it makes a difference and if its worth it.

    Bill

    Keep Experimenting and posting results Bill
    I'm sure that this thread will save me many many hours when I start my Javron build next month

  23. #2063
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Avnxtek - Thank you for the kind words. The whole reason for doing this thread was to try to help others. If you find some help here then I have achieved my goal.

    Folks - an update

    MUFFLERs - I have a Sutton muffler now. It has worked well but it hangs below the nose bowl mounting rails and so requires bump outs in the lower cowl. This is NOT the fault of the muffler it is due to me dropping the engine 2" to compensate for the Thrustline mod and to try to get the cowl lines back to normal. I thought I would try a Vetterman Exhaust hoping to avoid this when I built the new cowl. Clint Busenitz at Vetterman was OUTSTANDING. He really bent over backward to rush build, and send me an exhaust. Absolutely first rate customer service!!! His muffler is very well made and fits beautifully. I was most impressed. Unfortunately, lowering my engine mount affected his exhaust as well. It was going to require a couple of bump outs of the bottom cowl to make it work. Not the fault of his muffler, it fits normal Cubs just fine, just not a 2" lowered mount (without some "adjusting").
    Bottom line - since I was going to have to make the bump outs either way I just stayed with the muffler I had, but I gotta say, I was REALLY IMPRESSED by the Vetterman exhaust and I would highly recommed it. And Clint's service was above and beyond. Thank you Clint!


    New cowl coming together. Since I don't have a paint booth right now, I did all the prep work and my neighbor and friend, Jim did the painting.


    Final version of the Wig Wag lights



    Final weights for the lights (including paint) = 1.1 oz for all hardware nut plates, screws rivets etc,
    3 oz for the trim piece,
    9.2 oz for the plexiglass lens cover,
    3.8 for the mount,
    11.6 for the light,
    4.4 for wires,
    Total for each light 33.1
    Less 7 oz for material removed = 26.1 oz per light, so that added a little over 3 pounds total. I think the increased visibility and safety benefit will be worth it.


    Alternator added about 40 oz

    Pod added 30 pounds

    Plenum center rail = 3.45 oz
    Plenum left side = 11.9
    Plenum right side = 12.4
    Less 10 oz material removed
    Total added plenum weight = 17.75 oz or just over 1 pound. This, if it works, will be well worth it.

    Now lets put some fuel on the fire and get some folks all riled up. The next "experiment" is a valve between the engine and the oil cooler. I can not take credit for any of this. It was offered by someone far more intelligent than I, and with a lot more aviation experience. This system allows you (the pilot) to directly, manually, control the oil temperature. You have a push/pull knob that allows you to control Carb air and also mixture. I now also have one that controls a valve that meters oil into the cooler.
    First you must remove the Vernatherm so all oil ALWAYS flows through the cooler. Then you insert a spring Lyc part # 69436, and a plunger Lyc # 62415
    into the engine........



    Goes in under the large bolt under the oil breather hose port.......



    It is part # 1 and 2 in the diagram above.

    This allows oil to circulate through the engine based on oil pressure if the oil cooler is blocked off (or controlled off or metered down via a valve) so at no point should the engine be without oil, of adequate pressure, and volume.


    This is the valve, Parker part # XV501SS-6 MSC (a retailer) #04479804
    It is a stainless steel, 3/8 ball valve, MNPT/FNPT. The cable comes through the firewall via a locking eyeball mechanism and goes straight to the valve handle. Although the valve is a 90 degree unit it is pretty much fully closed at 45 degrees of travel.



    Therefore this is pretty much fully closed. You normally start an engine with all controls (mixture, carb heat, Prop levers, etc) fully forward, or "in" if you want to say it that way. In this set up the oil valve knob will be fully forward "in" as well and in this position the valve is fully open so all oil is going through the cooler. After start, or take-off, or climb you can then adjust the valve and thus the oil temp as needed. With the glass cockpit I will also get a LARGE red warning if my oil temp were to exceed a preset value (whatever I decide I want the warning at) just in case I forget to pay attention. Why do it? Well I often find my oil temp is too low, especially in the winter and I believe this will solve that problem. Furthermore, those who have done this, (I'm not the first Cub guy and there are a number of guys in the RV community that have done this), say that it is common for the oil temp to go down when the valve is closed a little before further closure increases oil temp. The speculation is that by slowing down the flow, the oil spends a little more time in the cooler which allows more heat to be removed before the oil is circulated back into the engine.
    I admit I have not tried this out yet but I am pleased with the installation and how it seems to be working. I tried the louvers in front of the oil cooler last Cub and that only managed to change the oil temp by about 10 degrees. In other words the louver technique did not work for me. I believe this mod will be very helpful in the winter, or when you depart at very cold temps but the day warms up a bunch or perhaps during significant altitude changes with large changes in outside air temps. It is an experiment (by me) that has been successfully done by others. I will report the results in a week or two after flying it 20 or 30 hours.
    Added weight 12 oz.


    Back on floats. Still more to do but making significant progress.


    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks Steve Pierce, Flying Bee, Olibuilt thanked for this post
    Likes jrussl, CamTom12, fancypants, DW, Hardtailjohn liked this post

  24. #2064
    Tim's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Petersburgh, NY
    Posts
    3,317
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bill you'll like that oil control valve works great

  25. #2065
    wireweinie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Palmer, AK
    Posts
    1,468
    Post Thanks / Like
    Bill
    Just playing devil's advocate here. On start up, don't most oil systems route oil through the engine and not through the cooler? The vernatherm doesn't route the oil through the cooler until the temps come up. Also, the spring/slug bypasses the cooler as long as the pressure is high due to cold/thick oil.

    Wouldn't you want to start up with the oil cooler blocked off?

    Web
    Life's tough . . . wear a cup.

  26. #2066
    DJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Bolivia
    Posts
    79
    Post Thanks / Like
    Can someone explain why Cub pilots don't seem to like Vernatherm valves. I'm in the dark on this one.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using SuperCub.Org mobile app
    The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands. Psalms 19:1

  27. #2067
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    318
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by wireweinie View Post
    Bill
    Just playing devil's advocate here. On start up, don't most oil systems route oil through the engine and not through the cooler? The vernatherm doesn't route the oil through the cooler until the temps come up. Also, the spring/slug bypasses the cooler as long as the pressure is high due to cold/thick oil.

    Wouldn't you want to start up with the oil cooler blocked off?

    Web
    The vernatherm (depending on case design maybe, but on my Lycoming) actually passes a small percentage of oil through the oil cooler at all times. I've heard the amount is between 10-20%, but I have no idea if that's accurate. I think the purpose is to prevent oil congealing in the cooler during really cool OATs, and causing damage when the oil circulating in the engine comes up to temp enough to open the vernatherm. But again, that's a personal theory - I'm not sure if that's why its designed that way.


    But, if I personally get to chose what's happening to the oil cooler at all times, I'd probably keep it "closed" until about 150 deg F, then start opening it very slowly and as necessary to peak and hold around 180-190 deg F. I put "" around closed because I'd run it like Bill is in the "closed" position and have a little bypass to keep any oil in the oil cooler from congealing so that I don't have to worry about a big booger of oil breaking things when it comes time to slowly start opening the valve.


    Bill, I've debated putting a set up like this in mine for the opposite reasons you did. I've got a high oil temp O-320 that I'd like to wring more cooling out of. I've got a few tricks left to try in case my last round of airflow mods didn't lower the oil temps enough for AL summers. I really appreciate you putting part numbers and pictures up here, that'll help a ton if I go this route. Would you mind posting a picture of the cockpit side of your control? I know where I'd put mine if I installed one, but I like the layout of your dash and wanted to see how you incorporated another control.
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post
    Likes TNOR liked this post

  28. #2068
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    CamTom12


    Not the best photo but it was quick to find. L-R = Carb Heat, Mixture, Cabin Heat, Oil Heat (for lack of a better term)

    Bill
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks Jasperfield thanked for this post

  29. #2069
    CamTom12's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    318
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    CamTom12
    Not the best photo but it was quick to find. L-R = Carb Heat, Mixture, Cabin Heat, Oil Heat (for lack of a better term)

    Bill
    Looks good, thanks!

    Cameron

  30. #2070

    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Southern Utah
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like
    IMG_6874.jpgIMG_6875.jpgIMG_6527.jpg

    This is how my friend plumbed in my oil control valve for an 0-340.
    Thanks Bill Rusk, Olibuilt thanked for this post
    Likes CamTom12, Jasperfield liked this post

  31. #2071

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    935
    Post Thanks / Like
    DJ
    The only reason I can think of that cub pilots don't like the vernatherm is because they SUCK!!! Trying to solve a oil temp problem (hot or cold) with one can be a problem because they do bypass oil so in cold weather you still have to have some blocking of the cooler to keep the oil temps up. If you are too hot/cold is it the cooler or the vernatherm??? I have one and do not intend pull it out unless I have problems, I have block off plates for the oil cooler for 8 months of the year so I am fine.
    Bill
    I always learn something when I see your work!! great job.
    DENNY
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post
    Likes TNOR liked this post

  32. #2072
    skywagon8a's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    SE Mass
    Posts
    6,876
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by CamTom12 View Post
    The vernatherm (depending on case design maybe, but on my Lycoming) actually passes a small percentage of oil through the oil cooler at all times. I've heard the amount is between 10-20%, but I have no idea if that's accurate. I think the purpose is to prevent oil congealing in the cooler during really cool OATs, and causing damage when the oil circulating in the engine comes up to temp enough to open the vernatherm. But again, that's a personal theory - I'm not sure if that's why its designed that way.


    But, if I personally get to chose what's happening to the oil cooler at all times, I'd probably keep it "closed" until about 150 deg F, then start opening it very slowly and as necessary to peak and hold around 180-190 deg F. I put "" around closed because I'd run it like Bill is in the "closed" position and have a little bypass to keep any oil in the oil cooler from congealing so that I don't have to worry about a big booger of oil breaking things when it comes time to slowly start opening the valve.
    Cam,
    I have no idea if your percentage numbers are correct however the rest of your comments are. Provisions to have some oil flow through either an oil cooler or an oil tank/sump is very important to maintain continuous flow in cold temperature conditions. Our air cooled engines require a high viscosity oil for proper operation when compared to the oil in your car. (Why is a separate topic). Normal use is SAE 50 and in some radial engines SAE 60. Lower viscosity in cold temperatures. Because of this the oil turns thick (think molasses) when cold and does not flow well. The small amount of flow through the cooler/tank is to keep that oil warm enough to flow when it is needed by the engine.
    The above is best illustrated by an accident which I knew of when it happened in the early 1960s. It was in the cold of winter in a four cylinder Continental kidney oil sump powered plane. The pilot had run the engine enough to warm the oil to go fly. While in the air he lost all oil pressure and crashed the plane. It was determined that the oil surrounding the pickup tube in the tank had warmed enough to allow the drain oil to travel along the pickup tube to the bottom then to be recirculated in the engine. This oil then gradually warmed the remaining oil in the tank. At some time the remaining cold/thick oil was reduced to a small glob which was sucked to the pickup tube where it blocked the flow to the oil pump causing loss of oil pressure.

    The oil tanks in big airplanes like the DC-6, had a small reservoir in the tank which allowed a portion of the oil to be warmed enough to go fly and to prevent the above accident from happening. Thus your scenario of allowing a small flow through the cooler at all times makes sense. The large oil coolers on a Cessna 185 have a bypass for this same reason.
    N1PA
    Thanks Bill Rusk, skukum12 thanked for this post
    Likes Bill Rusk, Hardtailjohn, AK_Logan liked this post

  33. #2073
    mvivion's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    9,205
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    The large oil coolers on a Cessna 185 have a bypass for this same reason.
    And, to add confusion, those were referred to as "non congealing oil coolers" when in fact, the coolers can and will congeal. But if they do, the bypass opens to return oil to the engine.

    Good post, Pete.

    MTV
    Likes ron liked this post

  34. #2074
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Folks

    Sitting in a hotel room trying to get everything done and I remembered another little tidbit.



    This is the throat of my Carb 0-360 engine so MA-4-5 Carb. Note the diameter is 2" 1/8



    This is my sump. Diameter is 2" 3/8

    Well that is not going to be very good for the airflow. The carb and the sump are not the same size. Turns out Lycoming figured that out a long time ago and they issued SB258 to fix that problem. It is a cone shaped spacer that goes in the sump and creates a smooth air transition between the Carb and the sump. Over the years this has dropped off the radar and I think there are a bunch of engines out there that could benefit from this SB. Over on the Vans website a number of folks have tried it and report much improved CHT and EGT readings. Specifically it evens out the fuel distribution so all cylinders are much closer in CHT and EGT values. Some have even reported gaining static RPM.




    This is a copy, best I could find, of the SB.

    This part can be hard to find. Lycoming does not have it. I found it at.....

    http://www.bolducaviation.com

    I have now got this installed and it will be interesting to see the results. Unfortunately I have changed several variables at one time (plenum, oil heat, and SB258 ) so it might be tough to figure out which if any worked, but I will report the results, whatever they may be in a few days.

    So.....next time you have things apart you might check your carb opening and sump opening and see if they match.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-29-2017 at 10:56 PM.
    Very Blessed.
    Thanks Chicken Hawk, Jasperfield, CamTom12 thanked for this post

  35. #2075
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,954
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Folks

    Sitting in a hotel room trying to get everything done and I remembered another little tidbit.



    This is the throat of my Carb 0-360 engine so MA-4-5 Carb. Note the diameter is 2" 1/8



    This is my sump. Diameter is 2" 3/8

    Well that is not going to be very good for the airflow. The carb and the sump are not the same size. Turns out Lycoming figured that out a long time ago and they issued SB258 to fix that problem. It is a cone shaped spacer that goes in the sump and creates a smooth air transition between the Carb and the sump. Over the years this has dropped off the radar and I think there are a bunch of engines out there that could benefit from this SB. Over on the Vans website a number of folks have tried it and report much improved CHT and EGT readings. Specifically it evens out the fuel distribution so all cylinders are much closer in CHT and EGT values. Some have even reported gaining static RPM.




    This is a copy, best I could find, of the SB.

    This part can be hard to find. Lycoming does not have it. I found it at.....

    http://www.bolducaviation.com

    I have now got this installed and it will be interesting to see the results. Unfortunately I have changed several variables at one time (plenum, oil heat, and SB25 so it might be tough to figure out which if any worked, but I will report the results, whatever they may be in a few days.

    So.....next time you have things apart you might check your carb opening and sump opening and see if they match.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    http://legacy.cubcrafters.com/techni...ations/80/view
    Thanks CamTom12 thanked for this post

  36. #2076
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Excellent info Tom. Thanks for posting that link. That is a little different than the one I got from Buldoc. Mine does not have the flange on the bottom, it is more like just a cone, and slides up completely into the sump, so it does not affect the carb location/height, studs, gaskets, etc. But another option for sure.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  37. #2077
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Spokane Felts Field, WA/Poplar Grove, (Chicago) IL
    Posts
    4,596
    Post Thanks / Like
    Okay - can someone, who is not an idiot like me, tell me how to type the number eight and not get a stupid smiley face??? Please.

    Thank you

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  38. #2078
    Scouter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Exeter Maine
    Posts
    1,448
    Post Thanks / Like




    I ordered one of these Baja designs led lights as you reccommended Bill, it came today. Holy discontent! this thing is a flame thrower, I cant believe the output of this thing. I hooked it up to my handy EarthX jump pack and lit up the whole airstrip. I had the deer running and the rabbits jumping, and owls hooting. Very impressive, cant wait to get it into the cub tomorrow. Your double setup pulsing must be something. The whole led bulb movement is so impressive with so little amp draw. Thanks!

    jim
    Thanks pfjay52 thanked for this post
    Likes Bill Rusk, Hardtailjohn, skywagon8a liked this post

  39. #2079
    RaisedByWolves's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    2,954
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    Excellent info Tom. Thanks for posting that link. That is a little different than the one I got from Buldoc. Mine does not have the flange on the bottom, it is more like just a cone, and slides up completely into the sump, so it does not affect the carb location/height, studs, gaskets, etc. But another option for sure.

    Bill
    It's been awhile, but it took some filing to get it to fit in the carbon cubs sump.

    Tom

  40. #2080
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Graham, TX
    Posts
    16,038
    Post Thanks / Like
    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post


    Well that is not going to be very good for the airflow. The carb and the sump are not the same size. Turns out Lycoming figured that out a long time ago and they issued SB258 to fix that problem. It is a cone shaped spacer that goes in the sump and creates a smooth air transition between the Carb and the sump. Over the years this has dropped off the radar and I think there are a bunch of engines out there that could benefit from this SB. Over on the Vans website a number of folks have tried it and report much improved CHT and EGT readings. Specifically it evens out the fuel distribution so all cylinders are much closer in CHT and EGT values. Some have even reported gaining static RPM.




    This is a copy, best I could find, of the SB.

    This part can be hard to find. Lycoming does not have it. I found it at.....
    Actually that service bulletin was to put out for better fuel distribution on O-320 engines in the Apache in very cold conditions. Be interesting to see what it does on your O-360. The O-360 is suppose to have equal length intake tubes and better fuel distribution.
    Steve Pierce

    Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects.
    Will Rogers
    Thanks Bill Rusk thanked for this post

Similar Threads

  1. Building Fin
    By jtgibson in forum Experimental Cubs
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 06-01-2009, 06:15 AM

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •