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Thread: Building a Javron Cub

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    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Building a Javron Cub

    Folks

    This thread will be about my build up of a Supercub Kit produced by Jay DeRosier of Javron, thus a Javron Cub. http://javroninc.com/


    INDEX

    Page 1
    Post#1- List of common Supercub Mods
    #22 - Strut Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post510044

    Page 2
    #44 - Fuselage weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post510275
    #50 - Magneto Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post511093
    #59 - Brodhead Fly-in - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post511237
    #60-75 - Powdercoat discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post511261
    #76 - Drilled Brake Roters - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post512137

    Page 3
    #100 - Wing parts weights (ribs, etc) - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post513621
    #104 - Engine Selection Logic, Interior Panel Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post523216
    #116 - Wing Selection Criteria - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post523357
    #120 - Ztron Labs Master Relay - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post523391

    Page 4
    #124 - Pmag Blast Tubes - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post523517
    #152 - Javron Review and "Bringing it home" - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post525326
    #154 - Modifications with Pictures and explanations - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post525332
    #155 - Weight Savings Ideas and List - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post525333

    Page 5
    #162 - Common Mods with Pictures - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post525504
    #193 - Weight info for Tail Surfaces - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post525958

    Page 6
    #211 - Interior Panel Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post526107
    #231 - Stringer Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post529369
    #240 - Tail Hinge Bushing Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post529458

    Page 7
    #241 - Engine Weight Data - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post529459
    #248 - Nutplate Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post530568
    #249 - Nutplate install - Bootcowl - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post530575
    #263 - Nutplate install - Skylight - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post531061
    #265 - Composite Floorboards - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post531066
    #272 - ELT Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post531164

    Page 8
    #288 - Flywheels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post532656
    #297 - Floorboards, Nutplates - Rudder Pedal Saddles - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post533305
    #299 - Electric Trim - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post537148
    #306 - Rivet info, Bootcowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post538798
    #318 - Bootcowl Pictures By Steve Pierce - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post538968
    #320 - Electric Trim, Windshield Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540045

    Page 9
    #321 - Windshield Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540049
    #323 - Torque Tube Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540052
    #329 - Hatz Biplane, Warner Engine - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540445
    #334 - Removal of fixed left side window - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540844
    #335 - Weight Savings Ideas - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post540847
    #340 - Hatz - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post541285
    #352 - Seats (also more info in post 358 - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post542424
    #355 - Fuel Lines and Fuel Valve - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post542437

    Page 10
    #370 - Avionics Selection Logic - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post544306
    #385 - Javron Visit, Instrument Panel - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post550863
    #386 - Wing Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post550866
    #391 - Garmin 796 Panel Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post551601

    Page 11
    #405 - Fuel Line Routing - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post556304
    #406 - Interior Panels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post556305
    #429 - Tool and Tripod info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post558185
    #434 - Stringer Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post558202

    Page 12
    #443 - Interior Panels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ron-Cub/page12
    #456 - Bootcowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post560236
    #475 - Interior Panels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post560502

    Page 13
    #486 - Interior Panels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post561390
    #501 - Cargo Tiedown Rings - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post567561
    #508 - Rudder Pedal Install, Battery Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post568669
    #514 - Rear Seat (Redone see post 1258 - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post569231
    #516 - Catto Prop, Seat Belts - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post569254

    Page 14
    #xxx - Rear Seat info - Ideas - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ron-Cub/page14
    #550 -Throttle Rod, Underseat box, Seat Belt info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post571186
    #551 - Start of Auto Pilot Discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post571202

    Page 15
    #562 - Auto Pilot Choice/logic - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post572618
    #570 - Bootcowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post573364
    #572 - Cowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post573367
    #591 - Elevator and Rudder Cable Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post573367
    #597 - Primer and Paint Discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post573367

    Page 16
    #604 - Fabric Headliner - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post575044
    #605 - Cowl Door Latches - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post575204
    #611 - Water Rudder, Fuel Pod Tabs - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post575496
    #613 - Cowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post575649
    #616 - Carb Airbox Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post575968

    Page 17
    #648 - Wing Root Interior Panels - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post578460
    #651 - Covering Systems Info, Seat Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post580725
    #656 - Paint Scheme Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post580877

    Page 18
    #696 - Stewarts Covering Tips - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post582516
    #702 - Catto Prop Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post582789
    #709 - Boundary Waters Canoe Trip - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post583269
    #719 - Catto Prop Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post583547

    Page 19
    #730 - Interior Panel Photos & Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post584237
    #741 - Rib Stitching Info and Video link - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post585280

    Page 20
    #772 - Fabric Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post586827
    #785 - Fabric Headliner - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post588347
    #791 - Bead Roller Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post588991
    #799 - Rib Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post589091

    Page 21
    #817 - Fuel Pod and Fuel Tank Size thoughts - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post593192
    #833 - Electrical Loads Discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post593633

    Page 22
    #847 - Fuselage Covering Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post594930
    #866 - Fabric Glue Info and Video Link - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post595458
    #873 - Fuselage Tapes/Reinforcements - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post595558

    Page 23
    #883 - Fuselage Tapes/Reinforcements - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post595987
    #886 - Vert Stab (fin) Offset Discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post596149
    #909 - Paint Booth Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post597132

    Page 24
    #924 - Javron Wing Pictures - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post597693
    #927 - Javron Tank Pictures - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post597847
    #936 - Capacitive Fuel Gauges - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post597941
    #940 - Wing Weights - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post597966
    #957 - Wing Washout - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598175
    #959 - Carbon Fiber Leading Edge - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598237

    Page 25
    #962 - Carbon Fiber Leading Edge - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598283
    #968 - Wingtip Light Mount Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598590
    #969 - Wiring Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598785
    #976 - Stress Riser Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598850
    #989 - CG Calculation info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598900
    #995 - Pitot Line info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post598912
    #996 - Drill jig for Floating Nuts - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post599055

    Page 26
    #1001 - Vetterman Cub w/ Oratex - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post599120
    #1017 - Paint Scheme Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post599605

    Page 27
    #1049 - Carbon Fiber Leading Edge Failure - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post600517
    #1070 - New Leading Edge Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post601288
    #1074 - Wing Weight Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post601527

    Page 28
    #1100 - Wing Tapes/Reinforcements - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post602394
    #1120 - Wiring Diagram for Electric Trim - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post604598

    Page 29
    #1135 - Wipline 2100A Floats - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post605501
    #1152 - Photos of Carbon Cub Electric Trim - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post606061
    #1156 - Air Line Fittings - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post606437
    #1157 - Video Link Painting Tail Feathers - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post606572
    #1158 - Tail Weights of Primer, Paint Etc - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post606591

    Page 30
    #1161 - Paint Weight Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post606719
    #1187 - Paint Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post607224
    #1191 - Fuselage Paint Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post607467
    #1191 - Paint Booth Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post609470

    Page 31
    #1205 - Paint and Weight info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post610088
    #1209 - Paint Taping - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post610478
    #1225 - Baggage Door Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post611597
    #1228 - Baggage door and Better Rear Seat Design - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post612730

    Page 32
    #1241 - Javron Company Update (Wing and Aileron info) - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post614638
    #1244 - Torque Tube Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post614729
    #1255 - Final Rear Seat Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post615857
    #1265 - Javron Aluminum Struts - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post616553
    #1269 - Air Tech Vs Stewarts Glue - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post617064

    Page 33
    #1282 - Weight Data - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post617883
    #1283 - Cowl Door Brace Rods - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post618091
    #1287 - Preliminary Empty Weight Bet - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post618769


    Page 34
    #1325 - Fuel Flow Transducer and Battery Box - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post620203
    #1343 - Wheels, Brakes, Oil Cooler, Window Channel - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post623484
    #1358 - Nutplates and access/inspection covers - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post623937

    Page 35
    #1361 - Gas Springs for shooter windows - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post623940
    #1376 - ELT Antenna Mounting - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post625418
    #1383 - Wing Root Fairings and Flap Gap Seals - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post626086
    #1384 - Turnbuckles - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post626088
    #1392 - Wing Root Fairings - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post626323

    Page 36
    #1401 - Fuel Tank covers - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627114
    #1410 - Flap Gap Fairing/Seal - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627251
    #1410 - Instrument Panel Subpanel - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627251
    #1411 - Princeton Fuel Probes - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627254
    #1417 - Fuel Sight Gauge - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627316
    #1431 - Shopping List (stuff you will need to build your Cub) - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627604
    #1433 - Fuel Cap discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627604


    Page 37
    #1441 - Bottom Cowl Fabrication - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627604
    #1464 - Aircraft Registration Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post627957
    #1472 - More Lower Cowl Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post628124
    #1477 - Bolt In Lead for Ballast - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629022


    Page 38
    #1481 - Decals - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629204
    #1489 - Brake line info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629622
    #1489 - Cabin Air Box modification - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629622
    #1489 - Lowered Engine Mount Issues - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629622
    #1510 - Actual Final Weight - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629730
    (Cg and Datum discussion in here as well)


    Page 39
    #1538 - Excellent Post on floats and Stability - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post629849
    #1558 - Baffling and Wire pass throughs - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post630045


    Page 40
    #1569 - Fuel Valve Selector Handle Discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post630107

    Page 41
    #1630 - Side Cutters, Zip Ties, and how to make hoses - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post630425
    #1640 - First Run Video - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post630460

    Page 42
    #1648 - First Flight and Start of Window discussion - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post630639
    #1673 - Start of Master Relay/Starter Relay wiring Diagram Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631104

    Page 43
    #1685 - Baffling Mod to Reduce #3 CHT - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631215
    #1686 - Registration Info, W&B Form and Program Letter info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631217
    #1694 - Side Window Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631523
    #1694 - PMag, CHT and Timing info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631523
    #1700 - Johnson Creek Trip Report and Pictures - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post631523
    #1711 - Electrical Amp Draw Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post632948

    Page 44
    #1725 - Outside Door Latch - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post634762
    #1728 - Magnesium Sump - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post637213
    #1728 - Amphib Float Pump info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post637213
    #1728 - Hoist Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post637213
    #1741 Float Install Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post638200
    #1753 - Float W&B - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post638200

    Page 45
    #1761 - Manual Float Pump Install - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post638853
    #1765 - Float Pump Reservoir - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post639118
    #1770 - More Pump Install Notes - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post639214
    #1793 - Float W&B Info - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post639574

    Page 46
    #1805 - Diode Part #'s - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post640156
    #1811 - Brad Thornberg Pictures/Trip to Brainerd - http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...l=1#post641030




    We will start with a stock Piper PA-18 fuselage produced from Piper drawings. From that base I will be asking Jay to make the following modifications....
    ( I included some notes on the mods for the folks here that may not be familiar with all this stuff )






    1. Reverse dog leg - makes it easier to get stuff in the extended baggage area - weight penalty zero


    2. Metal Belly Tabs - tabs on last 4 feet of fuselage to attach a metal belly pan - access improved and easier to wash out fuselage - weight penalty will be tabs, hardware, and .020 AL pan itself


    3. Removable rear crossbar - makes loading larger items in baggage easier - weight penalty will be a small section of tubing (2" or so) and hardware


    4. Tie Downs in Cargo area - to keep loads from shifting - weight would be the tabs


    5. Bushing the tailwheel attach tube - keeps the tubing from collapsing - weight penalty will depend on tubing size increase and bushing.


    6. Extended cargo area - room to carry more stuff - weight penalty will depend on several factors. I plan to use the lower longerons rather than build the shelf. This will necessitate running the elevator cables under the fuselage.


    7. Float fittings (FWD)


    8. Float fittings (AFT) - rather than weld on the external fittings I used a flush set up on my last build that I think worked well and added little if any weight. Here is a link to some photos and a description. http://www.supercub.org/forum/showth...ing+smith+bill (you will have to scroll past the electric trim section).


    9. Lift rings for floats - these can be welded in or they could be left out and the brackets bolted to the spars as necessary. There are advantages to each. The spar brackets would only be added if someone went to floats so perhaps a few ounces lighter for someone who is not planning on floats but that then requires cutting into the wing fairing and they are not easy to take on and off so they tend to be left on year round. With the weld in ones the holes in the skylight can be plugged easily and the eyebolts are easy to remove or install when going to or from floats.


    10. Extra tail lift handle - Easy to weigh a piece of tubing to get the weight. The handle needs to be a little larger than factory so you can get a gloved hand in there and the extra handle is useful for ski flying where it is necessary to manually move the tail around. If there is only one handle there is a tendency to push on the side of the fuselage, often using the shoulder, which then bends the upper turtle deck stringers. Thus with the extra handle you can pull on the fuselage rather than push.


    11. Tabs for Amphib float set up. - They should be located here ..............
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40889-Building-a-Javron-Cub&p=638470&viewfull=1#post638470
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40889-Building-a-Javron-Cub&p=649847&viewfull=1#post649847
    http://www.supercub.org/forum/showthread.php?40889-Building-a-Javron-Cub&p=654937&viewfull=1#post654937

    Look at all three links to get the info you need


    12. Firewall Brace tubes - the extra tubing effectively makes an X brace on both sides of the fuselage at the firewall. Cubs are known to collapse the engine in a hard landing/crash often crushing the pilots ankles and possibly trapping them in the wreckage. The extra tube is easily weighed so we could determine the weight penalty here. I have seen this mod without tying the tubes together. That would significantly reduce the effectiveness of this mod. Much better to weld the tubes together at the X even though it would require a small (1/2") interconnecting brace of some type. This mod does interfere with the map pocket.


    13. Overhead X brace - Pretty standard now. Keeps the wing attach area from caving in during a crash causing head injuries. The original tubing was a 3' beam. By welding in the X the beam is now only about 18" now so we might be able to reduce the tubing size, or thickness, or both to save weight. Also makes it easy to put in the cross tube for the shoulder harness.


    14. Extended gear - most common is 3" which is what I will get. Some are also going to 3X3 gear which is 3 inch extended and the axle is moved forward 3 inches as well. This makes the tail heavier (bad for ski flying) but it allows more aggressive braking without standing the plane on its nose.


    15. Seat belt attach welded in to the floor tubes rather than being attached to the seat.


    16. Shoulder harness attach fittings welded in.


    17 Flap handle moved outboard - I like to take credit for this one but the reality is someone else probably thought of this before I did. I think all the experimental airframes are pretty much doing this now. No weight penalty and helps with the knee interference issue in a crosswind.


    18. Bushing the landing gear for the long step


    19. No tabs for the BLR fins. (Some folks are using the BLR set of Vortex Generators. These require tabs for the metal fin attached just forward of the horizontal stabilizers. The BLR system and the Micro VG's seem to be about equal in effectiveness with the edge going to the Micros. The downside to the BLR system is that big metal fins on the side of the fuselage. It REALLY gets in the way when moving the airplane around by the tail lifting handles when on skis, thus I am not a big BLR fan. I think the only ones using this system are Cub Crafters).


    20. Longer seat attach fittings for rear legs of front seat. This will get the bolt up high enough so it does not conflict with the floorboard making it hard to get the front seat out.


    21. ELT antennae mount


    22. Tail "X" brace or "H" brace. Strengthens tail area for ski and off road work.

    23. Third seat/baggage area reinforcement. I think some of the reinforcement tubes may be overkill in terms of size and thickness so I will work with Jay to see if we can go smaller and still retain the strength.

    24. Reinforce/brace outside rib of Horiz stabs to keep the fabric from warping it. Also move it 1/2" closer to fuselage to gap seal this area.

    25. Extend the arm on the bottom of the stick by 1" where the aileron cables attach. Gives more aileron throw to the stick.

    26. Make the front seat back folding and set the angle at 80 degrees Vs the factory 90 degree seat. No one sits bolt upright. Makes the seat much more comfortable but you have to be more careful with rear stick interference.

    27. Control lock brackets welded to front seat, and on front stick base. (This is the "V" shaped lock that hooks into a bushing on the front stick)

    28. Tail stinger light mount on rudder.

    29. Remove the false cowls (behind the boot cowl). Weld the ginger bread accordingly. Thus fabric will go all the way to the boot cowl.

    30. Upper and lower baggage doors.

    31. No brackets for the manual trim system except for the electric motor under the jackscrew.

    32. Bungee gear set up. Saves 3 pounds over the die spring set up.





    I have probably neglected a few things. I am open to inputs. What am I not thinking of?

    ( and so it begins)



    Bill

    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 01-31-2017 at 06:28 PM.
    Very Blessed.

  2. #2

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    Sounds exciting. I'm not really familiar with this kit and hadn't heard about it before you started your search for prospective kits to build. It sounds like you are going in the right direction. I'm sure this will be a very nice kit for you.

    You really didn't mention too much about the wings. Are you planning on stock length flaps, inboard to the frame, extended cord, etc? Stock bows or square tips?

    Look forward to watching it come together.

    Kevin G.

  3. #3

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    Bill,

    Its very good to hear that you are moving that much closer to getting your new Cub under way. I have a few questions that may not have been mentioned in your post.

    From the sounds of it, it seems like you will be building up a cub to be as light and as durable as possible. Does this mean 0-320/340? or 360/375? I really like the concept of a super light plane with an ample amount of power. I have heard of 320's being "massaged" up to 200 hp...

    Regarding the wings, Round tip? Square tip? Extended flaps? I remember the switch from BLRs to Micros and I really thought the latter worked deeper and longer to prevent a stall.

    Carbon Fiber: Will you be using any carbon fiber in the Cub? Leading edge, bows, cowling, tank covers, floorboards, etc.

    Titanium Firewall?

    Tail Feathers: 3" extended or stock? Stock should be plenty...

    Brakes: the Calumet Cub Heel Brakes are fantastic. They had enough pressure to lock-up 35s any day of the week.

    Tires: Assuming you will not always be on floats, what tires do you think you will use?

    Prop: Those Catto props are really light and pull great. Also spin up quite well and cruise faster than Borer equivalent.

    Fuselage: Will you be moving the engine in any way? backwards, forwards, up down? And last but not least, Wing Incidence. Have you decided to change it from stock? If you do so, be sure to match the tail to avoid trim complications.

    The big list you mentioned above has some FANTASTIC changes and ideas in it! I cant wait to see the progress on your new machine. I know you have put a lot of research into this so I am positive you will absolutely love your kit pick.

    Good luck and keep us posted.

    Bobby Breeden

  4. #4
    Iflylower's Avatar
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    Great to see you started friend! I saw a guy with a Javron shirt on his cell phone at Oshkosh. I've ordered parts from him a few times and talked on the phone a few times. Great guy. I was sure it was Jay, I got busy looking at a booth and he was gone. Sorry I missed him.

    I like your list, I'm pm-ing you another secret sauce addition to that frame.

    In my build, I'd give a lot to have a carbon fiber round tip on the wings. There is so much tomfoolery on the piper round tips. It'd be a huge time saver. Something bolt on like cc's, if not theirs.
    "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice." Charlie Brown

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    Iflylower's Avatar
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    Scott Berry's in AK.

    Thought of another...

    Not just tie downs in cargo aera, but little tabs that could hook a net from the front of the rear seat up to the top of the crossbar, right in front of the flap pulleys. Saw it up at the airmens show in AK, and never got it done on my frame. Sad. Also, cc uses tabs to hold a little net against the roof for charts and hats n such. Nice.
    Last edited by Iflylower; 08-05-2011 at 10:56 PM.
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  6. #6
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    my thoughts........


    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    .....

    9. Lift rings for floats - these can be welded in or they could be left out and the brackets bolted to the spars as necessary. There are advantages to each. The spar brackets would only be added if someone went to floats so perhaps a few ounces lighter for someone who is not planning on floats but that then requires cutting into the wing fairing and they are not easy to take on and off so they tend to be left on year round. With the weld in ones the holes in the skylight can be plugged easily and the eyebolts are easy to remove or install when going to or from floats.

    would think you want standard location like atlee's ones so most lift bars will fit?

    10. Extra tail lift handle - Easy to weigh a piece of tubing to get the weight. T

    have you considered just putting them on upper longerons instead, we call them "old man" handles, MUCH better force for pushing....
    ......

    20. Longer seat attach fittings for rear legs of front seat. This will get the bolt up high enough so it does not conflict with the floorboard making it hard to get the front seat out.

    I like that!
    .....

    24. Reinforce/brace outside rib of Horiz stabs to keep the fabric from warping it. Also move it 1/2" closer to fuselage to gap seal this area.

    I don't think you have a 1/2 ON the stabs to fix that, I think that will need to be done to(shorten) the tourqe tube mounts on fuselage

    25. Extend the arm on the bottom of the stick by 1" where the aileron cables attach. Gives more aileron throw to the stick.

    can you do that without hitting knees????????


    Bill


  7. #7
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    Bill, good on ya!
    Definitely inboard the flaps. makes a difference.
    I was advised that extending the ailerons didn't make "much" diff, and lots'a work to add a hanger/hinge. Dunno personally tho.
    I did most of what you listed, and WISH I had moved the flap handle some. Didn't think/read about that when I rebuilt.
    Make some sort of gizmo to be able to close the door window from outside.
    Windscreen defroster. Rear seat heat? Soundproofing under floor & inside boot cowls. AeroSport (Bart massaged) engine.
    Tabs for a belly pod. DW in Ore. has 3x3 extended gear fer sale. Do a nice job, I'll be lookin' someday.
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  8. #8
    fobjob's Avatar
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    A tube from the bottom of the firewall to the top front door frame on both sides to prevent the engine from tucking under in a crash and crushing your legs....

  9. #9
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Mike,
    25. Extend the arm on the bottom of the stick by 1" where the aileron cables attach. Gives more aileron throw to the stick.
    can you do that without hitting knees????????

    I think that you misunderstood. Extending the arm on the bottom of the stick will move the cable further. The stick throw will not change.

    Bill,
    My Backcountry fuselage was built by Javron.
    The plate which is mounted under the extended baggage floor on which the bulkhead "T" fittings attach for the fuel line drain points, was installed upside down against the fabric. It was impossible to install the "T" fittings and connect the fuel lines without an extension "Rube Goldberg" being added between the plate and the "T". The plate needs to be welded to the top surface of the tubing. This will allow a straight run of the fuel lines without any fancy plumbing.

    The tubing behind my firewall is in the form of an "X" instead of Piper's upside down "V". This prevented me from using a constant speed prop had I wished. The governor would have conflicted with the tubing. I do not know why this was done. It was not anything that I ordered. It certainly does strengthen the engine installation.
    N1PA

  10. #10
    fobjob's Avatar
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    Tempdoug, you're right, my bad; not enough coffee...

  11. #11
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Mike,
    25. Extend the arm on the bottom of the stick by 1" where the aileron cables attach. Gives more aileron throw to the stick.
    can you do that without hitting knees????????

    I think that you misunderstood. Extending the arm on the bottom of the stick will move the cable further. The stick throw will not change.
    .....
    ya my dyslexia in action

  12. #12
    Cub junkie's Avatar
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    This is the beginning of what I predict one of the longest running threads on SC.org. Looking forward to it.

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub junkie View Post
    This is the beginning of what I predict one of the longest running threads on SC.org. Looking forward to it.
    Agreed. I'm looking forward to this build and second the question of engine type?

  14. #14
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Kevin.... The wings will be fairly close to stock, round tip, probably 18gal tanks, etc. Still working on that part.

    Bob Breeden.... Folks I have had several long and very informative visits with Bob. He is very sharp and does his homework. It will be fun to see what his next build up looks like as well. But, that said, I will try to hit some of his questions

    Engine.... still undecided. Had a long and excellent visit with Bart at Oshkosh. I will talk to Ken at Lycon and probably Monty as well. Leaning toward 0-360 but ?????

    Planning Micro VG's on wing, pretty stock wing, possibly Keller flaps, and carbon fiber where it makes sense.

    Titanium firewall ...yes. Atlee is predrilled and saves 2 pounds

    Standard tail, Dakota Cub Brakes (already have) 31" tires (already have) Catto prop (as before I liked it)

    I may make some adjustments to the motor mount. That will depend somewhat on the engine selection. Bob offered a lot of insight into this area.

    Cal thanks for the PM. Yes I am looking into a CF wingtip bow with the light mount molded in to save time, weight, and as you say tomfoolery. I agree.

    Mike excellent inputs, thank you. I will have to look at the stabs again to confirm the set up. It was that way on my Smithcub and I liked it. The torque tube extension just gives more aileron travel with less stick travel and helps with the knee issue.

    Pete Thank you for that heads up. I will make sure it is on top.

    Right now most of my focus is on the fuselage as Jay is about ready to start cutting metal so I am trying to stay one step ahead of him and I want to make sure I get all my changes right the first time. Thanks to all for your inputs.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  15. #15
    Bob Breeden's Avatar
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    Bill,

    That was my kid. Let me know how I can help.

    Bob

  16. #16
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Oops, thats embarrassing. My sincere apologies to you both. I'll pay more attention in the future. How cool is that to have a father and son both knowledgeable and posting on the site.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  17. #17
    SteveE's Avatar
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    Bill,, on the extended torque tube extension,,, the bottom stringer will be in the way. I had 6 inches or so cut out so nothing can get caught between it and the bottom of the torque tube/cable attach. Built a square out of the stringer material and turned that into an inspection plate. Of course the pod covers it up now, but if you ever need to get into it, you have a cover there and the bottom stringer does not get in the way if a loose pencil finds its way down there.

  18. #18
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Bill,

    Sounds great!!!

    Try to think about the tabs above the front gear attach for brake fittings. a flat piece of steel strait above the longeron, put a firewall fitting on for hydraulics. You can put both brake and amphib hookup on.

    Aft baggage: try out randy's CF baggage maybe. cables stay in same place, and it uses all the room back there for lots less pounds.

    Tabs for rear seats up above the rear seat channel. Much easier to use and less holes for stuff to fall through later on...

    Just ideas. Great to see you going.

    George
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  19. #19
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Folks

    I went up to see Jay at Javron last week and we went over all the changes and mods to my weldments. I will post more on that later but what I wanted to share in this post are the scales I have ordered to help keep track of things along the way. Both for my use and also so that others may benefit from the data. I look on these scales as tools just as a wrench, rivet gun or torque wrench. So while not directly tied to the cub itself they will find much use in the shop. No bathroom scales for me.

    I ordered a small scale that will weigh, accurate to a tenth of a gram, up to 12 pounds...

    http://myweigh.com/product/ibalance-5500/

    And a second scale that will weigh, accurate to less than an ounce, to 130 pounds....

    http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/my...hdcs-6020.html


    I ordered from this company......

    http://www.oldwillknottscales.com/

    Hope this helps.

    Bill
    Last edited by Bill Rusk; 04-28-2015 at 09:44 PM.
    Very Blessed.

  20. #20
    cubdriver2's Avatar
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    I think the DEA tracks who buys these scales but it shouldn't be a problem for you, unless you also happen to own an offroad airplane with big tires that can land anywhere and has LED lights to find little fields in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night. So you should be alright

    Glenn

  21. #21

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    Bill, I was just thinking to myself how your project was coming because I haven't seen any info from you in a while. Thanks for posting your update.

    A while back ago, I was thinking about buying a scale from Wal Mart. I thought I could probably find one there.

  22. #22
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Folks

    Jay has started the welding so I should have weldments in pretty short order. We changed the top x brace a little to accommodate the dual inertial reel shoulder harness set up. This should help with the neck pinch and chaffing of the typical V shaped shoulder harness.

    We also set up a lip around the lower door opening such that the interior panels will tuck under this lip for a cleaner and more durable door area. I have seen interior panels bent and torn from sitting on the door sill when getting in, then also the front panel gets caught by the boot as you try to get in thus pulling it away from its attachment and bending it. This mod should take care of that.

    We discussed how to get the radio PTT switch on the throttle. Done.

    I will be using the lower longerons for the floor boards. Should save a couple of pounds.

    I will take pictures of all the mods, and weigh the fuselage both, before and after, paint.


    I should mention that a lot of the mods mentioned above in a previous post are really standard mods that Javron does for no extra charge. I just put them all here so folks who are not familiar with all this stuff could learn a little. I must say again how easy it is to work with Jay. He will pretty much build it any way you want.

    Mark (MMR) found a different trim motor for me. I have not tried it out yet but on paper it has twice the torque, and spins a little faster. The last one worked just fine but this one should be even better. I will post more info after I try it out.

    I am currently working on some weight data for mags, engines etc

    I can say a 0-320 Carb, MA-4SPA weighs 52.28 Oz and a 0-360 Carb, MA-4-5 weighs 83.085 Oz. That is very close to 2 pounds heavier for a 0-360 carb. We are going to nail down just how much the weight penalty is when going from a 0-320 to an 0-360. More to follow.

    Spoke to Univair

    Std rear strut = 7.25 pds
    Std Front strut = 11.45 pds

    HD rear strut = 9.9 pds
    HD Front strut = 14.4 pds

    Thus the difference is 11.2 pounds added to the airplane for the Heavy duty struts. You may decide that it is worth it, all I am trying to do is let you know honestly just what you are adding Vs rumor and hearsay.

    A Slick mag set up with 2-4347 model mags, harness, and 8 REM40E plugs weighs 189.05 Oz
    A Bendix mag set up w/ 2-20 series model mags, harness, and 8 REM40E plugs weighs 238.95 Oz
    Thats three pounds heavier for the Bendix. Is it worth it? Thats up to you but now you know.
    Working on getting accurate Pmag and Lightspeed info now.

    Hope this helps

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  23. #23

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    Saw a throttle body type carb on a exp.180 hp. SC that is tiny and looks like may save a few pounds and now the plane starts easy when hot, only been on a short while but looks like it works great.

  24. #24
    Iflylower's Avatar
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    Bill, I remember from a thread a long time ago... HD struts are for heavy snow loads in AK, not for flying. I bought the standard lighter lifetime ones with the thicker forks.
    "There are three things in life that people like to stare at: a flowing stream, a crackling fire and a Zamboni clearing the ice." Charlie Brown

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  25. #25
    Steve Pierce's Avatar
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    Weighed a stock factory Piper fuselage that has never been used. Still has the part number in crayon or grease pencil on the front tubes with paper wrapped around the front "V" brace and window and windshield trim strips. 97 1/4 lbs. It is primed in some yellow primer with a grayish green over everything except what is papered. Unfortunately had to cut into a rear longeron from someone mishandling it and a lot of linseed oil ran out. I have been weighing a lot of things as well Bill. Will post some when I get to my notes. I do remember the folding seat mod adds something like 2 lbs.
    Steve Pierce

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  26. #26
    FdxLou's Avatar
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    Bill

    The P Mags start paying you back $$$ the minute you start using them. Even if they are a few oz. heavier it would be worth it in the long run, IMHO.

    Lou

  27. #27
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Rusk View Post
    .....
    Spoke to Univair

    Std rear strut = 7.25 pds
    Std Front strut = 11.45 pds

    HD rear strut = 9.9 pds
    HD Front strut = 14.4 pds
    .
    Bill
    check airframes Inc.,
    I think... its +3 per rear, and +.5 per front strut... I think thats going from original piper ones....

    I think

    I KNOW I always used +7. lbs when putting a HD set on.... whether that has changed or not.....????

  28. #28
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iflylower View Post
    Bill, I remember from a thread a long time ago... HD struts are for heavy snow loads in AK, not for flying. I bought the standard lighter lifetime ones with the thicker forks.

    and for wind from behind....

  29. #29
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Pierce View Post
    Weighed a stock factory Piper fuselage that has never been used. Still has the part number in crayon or grease pencil on the front tubes with paper wrapped around the front "V" brace and window and windshield trim strips. 97 1/4 lbs. ...
    and more importantly, you have a virgin as far as plum bob for level flight....

    would be interesting to hear some of the angles from it in level flight.. the one I measured like that, in level flight was 1.0 deg trailing edge of wing down, firewall 90 deg....

    just kinda neat to see how they were REALLY built, depending on which piper jig, not what the blueprint says.....

  30. #30
    AkPA/18's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    and for wind from behind....
    I usually know when I get snow----- can't always predict when I get wind from behind. I went with the heavy rear---piece of mind!!!


    Mark
    Last edited by AkPA/18; 08-31-2011 at 03:48 AM.
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  31. #31
    mongo's Avatar
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    It would be interesting to get the weights of the D&E Aluminium struts.
    They are pretty heavily but from what I have heard.
    My electric trim motor is a Nissan power window motor, it is pretty compact and I would imagine the complete weight is about the same as the manual system but the nice thing is the weight is in the back.
    I definitely would go with the composite floors, mine weighed half of the stock wood flooring.

    Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk

  32. #32

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    You may consider the struts that Carlson Aircraft sell. I got a set for my 90 cub and the total weight with the ends put in them are 26-27 lbs. They may be on the light side for a heavier cub. I called D&E a long time ago and they said thier struts were something like 45 lbs.

  33. #33
    aktango58's Avatar
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    Bill,

    Just think about your beautiful cabin in the woods, fish jumping, waiting for the fly to bite. After a nice breakfast you wander down to your cub, ready to jump over to the lake with the 28" rainbows for a day of fishing, only to find your battery dead... (master, electric short, does not matter).

    Non electric mags are important
    I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!

  34. #34
    tcraft128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Bill,

    Just think about your beautiful cabin in the woods, fish jumping, waiting for the fly to bite. After a nice breakfast you wander down to your cub, ready to jump over to the lake with the 28" rainbows for a day of fishing, only to find your battery dead... (master, electric short, does not matter).

    Non electric mags are important
    Pmags can be fired up with a 9 volt battery. Some people on the VAN's board have an underdash 9v pad that they can plug into for just this situation. Once they are spinning 1200 RPM, they dont need any outside current source.

    Bill, I have a PMAG in a box, I will put it on a scale and PM you the weight tonight.
    Turning money into noise since 1996

    Our Build here


  35. #35
    Bill Rusk's Avatar
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    Thank you.

    Bill
    Very Blessed.

  36. #36
    Dave Calkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aktango58 View Post
    Bill,

    Just think about your beautiful cabin in the woods, fish jumping, waiting for the fly to bite. After a nice breakfast you wander down to your cub, ready to jump over to the lake with the 28" rainbows for a day of fishing, only to find your battery dead... (master, electric short, does not matter).
    I have also thought this scenario and questioned.....wait for it......

    .........electric trim.

    Any thoughts about handling trim with a dead batt??


    Bill, I too, love this thread already. Weigh EVERYTHING!!! Good stuff.

    Can't wait to hear p-mag weight!

    Non electric mags are important, and P-mag handles this by the 9-volt transistor battery trick until the engine is running and the P-magnetos and alternator can boot-strap themselves (I had a very-dead battery at Valdez last spring.....photographer wanted a picture of the instrument panel and I walked away with the master left on afterward........9-volt battery allowed me to excite the alternator field and I was charging fine with this trick once I had the engine hand-propped and running. A little cord to plug into the cigarette lighter and 9-volt connector would be nice. I did it with bailing wire)
    Last edited by Dave Calkins; 09-01-2011 at 10:41 AM.

  37. #37
    Bob Breeden's Avatar
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    FYI, Emag Pmags will self generate and fire the plugs smoothly down to 450 rpm, with the Master Off and no external electrical power.
    Last edited by Bob Breeden; 09-01-2011 at 10:09 PM.

  38. #38

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    I run dual Lightspeed have about 900 hrs on them , thought about the pmag but the trouble in Valdez with the pmag made a easy decision for me stuck with the light speed only unit that's been around 20 plus years an certified on a French helicpter mikeo

  39. #39
    Bob Breeden's Avatar
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    Yes, Mike, and it was something to deal with: We had to swing our engine and replace a heat damaged P-mag the day before Valdez. P-Mags have heat-sensitive circuit boards and MUST MUST MUST be cooled, per the manual, with blast tubes directed at the cooling fins from the high pressure side of the cowling. They functioned properly once blast tubes were installed.

    I am curious if anyone here spends time on the Van's RV equivalent of SuperCub.org and has any further operational knowledge of the P-Mags.

    Mike, how do you insure voltage to your Lightspeed units in the event of Battery, Alternator, or other electrical system failure?

  40. #40
    FdxLou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Breeden View Post
    Yes, Mike, and it was something to deal with: We had to swing our engine and replace a heat damaged P-mag the day before Valdez. P-Mags have heat-sensitive circuit boards and MUST MUST MUST be cooled, per the manual, with blast tubes directed at the cooling fins from the high pressure side of the cowling. They functioned properly once blast tubes were installed.

    I am curious if anyone here spends time on the Van's RV equivalent of SuperCub.org and has any further operational knowledge of the P-Mags.

    Mike, how do you insure voltage to your Lightspeed units in the event of Battery, Alternator, or other electrical system failure?
    Bob

    My P-mag install manual said that blast tubes were mandatory....mine now have 900 hrs on them and haven't given me any trouble. I am assuming you added the blast tubes AFTER the P-mag failure. I hate to see them get a bad name when installed improperly. Great company and great product.

    Lou

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