Cool New Flaps on the way? Decent Article with Pictures on the Planes at Valdez

[AntiCub]

Oh my God! People are starting to use WWII technology in Super Cubs!!!!! If this crazy trend continues we may even see a super cub with an airfoil developed after 1930 in the future!

Sorry, couldn't help myself, there isn't any new tech seen here. Fowler flaps, slots and all the rest date back to before WWII. I'm not sure if this is funny or just sad.

Phil

Edit: I should add, that I mean no disrespect to Doug. Your flaps look like a really cool and usefull mod. I too have been under impressed by slots/slats because of the high angle of attack needed to get the extra lift. I may even be discussing them with you in the distant future for my own aircraft. Could you post a picture of them retracted too?

[Steve Pierce]

Phil, With all the technology is there a modern airplane out there that will do what a Super Cub will?

[aktango58]

they are called helicopters

[AntiCub]

Phil, With all the technology is there a modern airplane out there that will do what a Super Cub will?

Steve
I think Aktango nailed it. Unfortunately, Since the advent of helicopters all the development in aircraft has been aimed at going faster not slower. So no, none that I'm aware of except a few one-off experimentals.

Now, if someone could come up with a Cub mod that would allow it to cruise at 150mph and still retain it's stol properties, that would really be exciting.

Phil

[mongo]

Steve
I think Aktango nailed it. Unfortunately, Since the advent of helicopters all the development in aircraft has been aimed at going faster not slower. So no, none that I'm aware of except a few one-off experimentals.

Now, if someone could come up with a Cub mod that would allow it to cruise at 150mph and still retain it's stol properties, that would really be exciting.

Phil

They do its called a PT6



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[AntiCub]

They do its called a PT6

If you mean the PC-6 Porter, even it doesn't have that kind of speed range, and I'd say it's in a far different class of aircraft too.

Phil

[mongo]

No PT6 turbine, anywhere from 500-2300hp that should get it to 150......
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[AntiCub]

True, and you could probably point the nose straight up and have true vertical take off and landing too. Remember the Oracle Turbo Raven?

[Coyote Ugly]

The tail shake is fixed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I installed my new horizontal stabilizers last Friday and the tail shake is completely gone! The new stabilizers have the same plan form as the originals. The top surface is flat just like the originals, the bottoms have an airfoil shape which is hardly noticeable. My goal was to not alter the cosmetics of the Cub.


I have called the DER test pilot to schedule another flight test to verify that the problem is fixed. I want to get his blessing before I go full steam ahead with the STC process. The bad news is that the STC version will likely need new horizontal stabilizers which will obviously increase the kit cost and the effort to get a STC.


Experimental folks can purchase the flaps only if they desire.


Doug

Awesome..... Good Job...

[ksecub]

Test flights went well today with the DER test pilot, full steam ahead with the STC process.

Doug

[12 Geezer]

Excellent! Congratulations. I wonder if your new stabilizer configuration would reduce the tail shake with stock flaps (full flaps, full power). Any thoughts?

[ksecub]

I finally got a web site up the explains the flaps a little better and how they can be purchased for Experimentals only at this point in time.

www.performancestol.com

I have started the STC process and it will be very costly and time consuming. I need to evaluate wheather or not the investment is worth the possible return. I am still moving forward with it since it is only my time invested so far. When I need to hire other DERs to help me out, it will get expensive.

Hopefully some of you Experimental guys will put these flaps on your aircraft, your feedback (good or bad) will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your consideration and support,
Doug

[Bill Ingerson]

Good Luck with the flaps Doug. The guys with the experimental plane's will like it for sure. But us poor guys with the Certified planes will probably suffer the most, Due to the fact that by the time they are done with you we probably could not afford them. Not your fault, just the cost of linning there pockets, there going to want there share of the profit, You do all the work, they want the easy money. Hope I am wrong.


Bill

[ksecub]

If somehow I made it all the way to New Holstein, would any of the attendees be interested in flying my airplane and trying out the flap system?

[mvivion]

If somehow I made it all the way to New Holstein, would any of the attendees be interested in flying my airplane and trying out the flap system?

Doug,

I truly mean no offense, but that right there is a dumb question

MTV

[Bill Rusk]

Doug

I live about 1 hour South of Oshkosh. I have a hangar and a place to stay if it will help. If I can help please let me know. I may also be able to help you ferry it if that will help. I am sure it would get a lot of attention and test flights. You can leave it here a couple of weeks if necessary to fit your schedule as well. This may give you a few more options to make this all work.

Happy to help

Bill

[mikeo]

Doug Have you set a price on the stabs ? Mikeo

[aktango58]

Doug,

I truly mean no offense, but that right there is a dumb question

MTV

YUP.

Bring it to Juneau, and I would love to fly it. Would test it with a full complement of fly rods, flies, waders and camera....

[SJ]

If somehow I made it all the way to New Holstein, would any of the attendees be interested in flying my airplane and trying out the flap system?

Hopefully you will register and not just show up!

sj

[mikeo]

Spoke to some really good pilots who've flown Dougs cub with the new flaps, every cmment was positive to say the least!!! I put my money where my mouth is an ordered a set for Cuzoom !! Hey guys get your check book out an order a set, make the good plane your flying now a great one!!! Mikeo

[ksecub]

It looks like I will be flying with Mikeo in his Staggerwing to Oshkosh this year. We might/should show up for the pig roast in the Staggerwing, if so we will register before hand.

Bill, if you are serious about flying the cub out give me a call. I have done it twice now and I don't think I could do it a third time.

If anyone has questions about the double slotted flaps at New Holstein please talk to Bill Rusk, Randy Goza, or Eddie Doyle. All three of these guys have flown the airplane. I should be available to talk to as well at the pig roast. Looking forward to it!

Thanks,
Doug

[bda]

I am building a producer / stretched pacer - experimental

would love to fly them and add them to my wing plans
ST

[ksecub]

An update, just put a set of flaps on Mike Olson's Cuzzom cub that is equipped with slats. No tail shake with stock stablizers! I don't know why this is the case but it is interesting.

I am just wrapping up the last set of presold flaps, if anyone is still interested I can build up another set right away.

[wzlyyn]

Doug,

I guess you would be the guy to ask, What is the feasibility of your type of flap system being used on a Carbon Cub? I think you know the most about the hinge and actuator used on them. I know the PA 18 is completely different.

Mark

[ksecub]

Hello wzlyyw,

As you mentioned the Carbon Cub has different flap hinge locations and the flaps are deployed differently. I would have to do some engineering work to accomodate the Carbon Cub, it would not be trivial, but it could be done. I think it would make a get modification for the Carbon Cub.

Doug

[Clay Hammond]

Doug,

On the Carbon Cub prototype you had the hinge points dropped down well below the wing to allow a rearward travel component to the operation. How did that work in your opinion versus this new design you've come up with?

[ksecub]

Clay, it is hard to compare two different airplanes like that. I would say that if the weight was the same and the power was the same, my new cub would out perform the original Carbon Cub due to the flap only. I think the origianl or any Carbon Cub would be much better with this flap.

Doug

[mikeo]

Ok I'm going to post a pilot report on Dougs flaps,
1rst all test were done @ 1100ft 64-68degrees 0-2mph wind
2nd very surprised with increased cruise speed 2-3mph
3rd touchdown speed flat approach 29-30mph
4th touchdown speed nose high 19-20mph
5th 28-32% shorter take off distance
Mike o
6th 35-45% less power to fly at slow radical angles

[Steve Pierce]

Mike, You are getting pretty technical with all these percents for a redneck.

[mikeo]

I know Steve but every time I take-off I still say the famous words "WATCH THIS" mikeo

[Steve Pierce]

LOL, just as long as you don't have a beer in your hand.

[mikeo]

Steve Dougs flaps are the single best bolt on STOL mod I've seen upto this point number two would be the Mackey Slats!! Mikeo

[Steve Pierce]

Cool, I really wondered how the two would work together especially since the flaps seem to flatten the approach and the slats like a more nose high attitude. I want to see some video now.

[wzlyyn]

Mike, How much of a decrease in approach speeds did you see?

Mark

[Dave Calkins]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EDbUn0_2rg

How about some more video WITH the new Keller Flap?

I'm hoping to see Doug, as I'll be in the Portland area for a couple of weeks starting Oct. 4th.......if he's getting my "PM's". Doug?

[ksecub]

Dave,

I got your PM and wrote you back, wonder why you did not get it. Anyway hope to see you when you are in town, I will be away on Oct. 5th and 6th but other than that I will be around. Call me after the 6th (503) 680-0705.

Doug

[Dave Calkins]

Doug, got it, same number as always. Thanks.

MikeO, any video of the new setup??? Those gear legs are crazy!!

[palhal]

Mike---Was the pull on the flap handle any harder than before?

Harold K.

[mikeo]

Dave the gear legs are for competition , they will be on at Valdez if I decide to go another year!!! Have lots of STOL demos in the works , plus a new airplane to finish!!
Hal the flap deploy force is much less than with the old flaps !!! Mikeo

[Dave Calkins]

Mike, put up some vid!