Drift HD170 - My review from a pilots perspective

[mountainmatt]

Hey guys, I know the topics of POV HD cameras come up from time to time, so I thought I'd post my review of my newly purchased HD170 by Drift Innovations.

Lots of good things to be said about this camera. Good battery life, nice picture, great settings and features, but the 3 things I LOVED are the RF remote, the wide angle rotating lens, and the nice display screen. Anyway, here's my quick 3 1/2 minute (pilot) review with some flying clips. For under $300 bucks it's a great POV camera.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORYQ0wN7mU


If you have any questions, let me know. I'll do my very best to answer them.

Cheers,
Matt

[fabricfan]

Very nice. Thanks for your effort.

[Roger Peterson]

Thanks for posting. Looks like a good camera.

[SJ]

I've been having fun with mine too. We strapped it on to a couple of the Pierce's dogs and had them chase the ball. That was fun until it fell off. It was a very funny video with John Meade doing the voice over of the dogs thoughts...

The strap that comes with it fits a cub strut perfectly.

sj

[SteveE]

If they had an adjustable shutter speed to get it 1/60 of a second, it would get rid of all that prop weird stuff,,, maybe they can incorporate that someday if enough comments come into their web. Other than that its nice.. I tried my new camcorder that has adjustable shutter speed, but couldnt get the vibration out to suit me.

[Grant]

If they had an adjustable shutter speed to get it 1/60 of a second, it would get rid of all that prop weird stuff,,, maybe they can incorporate that someday if enough comments come into their web. Other than that its nice.. I tried my new camcorder that has adjustable shutter speed, but couldn't get the vibration out to suit me.

I thought the prop artifacts came from CCD vs CMOS chips. One of the two types does not do this because it captures the whole image at one time vs. scanning top to bottom left to right. I want to get one and just cant get it figured out.

Thanks for posting the review.

[SpainCub]

CMOS is the one with the wobblies. However we are seen both types of artifacts, shutter speed and scan sync effects.
Thanks for the review!

I like the remote on the camera. Something that prevents me from using my POW camera is the lac of a remote.

[Bugs66]

It shows a filter that removes the prop artifacts. Why not leave on? Thanks for demo.

[StewartB]

FWIW, in past threads there's been discussion about ND (neutral density) filters being used to reduce the appearance of the prop. I called VIO to ask them about the availability/applicability of such filters. They said ND filters are used primarily to balance colors but that they also reduce the total light reaching the imager and that may result in an automatic shutter altering the shutter speed. But, these new digital POV cams don't have shutters in the conventional sense so the ND filters don't work like they will on a DSLR or other camera that does use a shutter.

Didn't Drift just release a slow motion cam? I wonder how the prop shows up on that one since slow motion is usually accomplished by shooting with very fast recording speeds.

SB

[mountainmatt]

Thanks guys for the kind words.

From my experience the prop warping is primarily due to the CMOS sensor. The ND8 filter (or a 3 stop) really helps in reducing this problem, it doesn't completely go away, but it's not nearly as annoying. I just bought some filter paper off of amazon for less than 20 bucks and cut to size.

I would have just left the filter on, but 1) it's not the right size so I have to fix that (not the same size as my Kodak Playsport) and 2) I usually just tape it on, and this won't work well mounted outside (I'll have to come up with a fix for that).

Here's another vid of Nate and I playing around that shows how well the ND8 filter works (filmed with the Playsport).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBHF0HdLyKs

Cheers

[mountainmatt]

FWIW, in past threads there's been discussion about ND (neutral density) filters being used to reduce the appearance of the prop. I called VIO to ask them about the availability/applicability of such filters. They said ND filters are used primarily to balance colors but that they also reduce the total light reaching the imager and that may result in an automatic shutter altering the shutter speed. But, these new digital POV cams don't have shutters in the conventional sense so the ND filters don't work like they will on a DSLR or other camera that does use a shutter.

Didn't Drift just release a slow motion cam? I wonder how the prop shows up on that one since slow motion is usually accomplished by shooting with very fast recording speeds.

SB

Good advice SB,

Drift did just release the Stealth HD170 and the only major difference is that it is 60 frames per second (FPS) and black. From my experience with using my Kodak Playsport, the 60 FPS helps only a little, and will not reduce the prop warping like the ND filter will.

In my review, the first takeoff video is with the Kodak Playsport at 60 FPS for a comparison.

Hope that helps.

[16-bravo]

Here is a video that I shot last weekend with my drift 170hd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=B3zNztJKNMs

[mountainmatt]

Hey Jerry, thanks for that reply, lots of good info.

One quick question, what's the correlation between exposure and F stop?

[Crash]

I was going to buy a Drift 170HD until I watch this comparison video (link attached). I want to use it on my bike as well as Cub so ordered a Go Pro Motorsports HD. Drift has a much better user interface, Go Pro has the sound and video. Too bad one of them couldn't have it all together....

http://www.ridergroups.com/blog/prod...camera-review/

Take care

Crash

[mountainmatt]

Crash, I don't think that guy went to any lengths to find a stable mount for the HD170, hence the crappy picture. I do feel the GoPro is better the the sounds department, but the HD170 has the ability for an external mic, so that's kind of a wash.

Have fun with the GoPro, it's no doubt a great camera too. And most importantly, post up some great Alaska footage so we can all dream.

Cheers

[Crash]

Crash, I don't think that guy went to any lengths to find a stable mount for the HD170, hence the crappy picture. I do feel the GoPro is better the the sounds department, but the HD170 has the ability for an external mic, so that's kind of a wash.

Have fun with the GoPro, it's no doubt a great camera too. And most importantly, post up some great Alaska footage so we can all dream.

Cheers

It was a tough call between the two.

Like most testers said, the Drift has the Go Pro beat hands down in the user interface area (remote control, view screen, plain English menus). But Go-Pro put a lot of engineering into their mic electronics. I think in the end they both will do what you want one to do. I may try the Go Pro for a while then switch to the Drift. We'll see....

Take care,

Crash

[BritishCubBloke]

Is there an ND filter fitting for the Drift or do you have to improvise? Is there one for the Helmet Hero?

[16-bravo]

Here is a video that a friend shot using my Canon Powershot Sx200IS. I have quite a few videos that I would like to edit all together. What kind of editing software are you guys using. I am using a PC, not a Mac. Thanks, Ron.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0S6iX_Wrbtg

[SteveE]

On the new Stealth Drift, does the remote turn the camera on/off or just pause/record? It would be nice if it was out on the strut to turn it on, and then turn on record.. Maybe I am missing something here.

[16-bravo]

Mine just goes to standby, so the power is always on. Battery life on the standard 1100mah battery was impressive, even at 0 F. It lasted about 3 hrs. I now have the 1700mah battery, so the life on it should be a lot better. Ron

[StewartB]

I liked your gear-mounted perspective. I liked it enough that I ordered a Drift. It arrived today. I'll play with it on the snowgo this weekend to see how it works. Somebody mentioned the battery door being vulnerable? Drift makes a silicone end cap. Because of that comment I ordered one with the camera from B&H. I'm surprised at the size of the Drift. It looked smaller in the pictures.

I also like my VHoldr. Small, good battery life, rotating lens like the Drift. I'm not impressed with the GoPro. Poor battery life. Waterproof case, though. The Drift seems very well suited for outside the cockpit since it has the remote. That's what I'm looking for. I still prefer my VIO as a helmet cam. Especially out in the wind. Tiny camera head tethered to a recorder that includes a viewing screen. Set it up, stash the recorder in a pocket, and go. It also has a remote.

I'd like to see what any of you are doing to mount ND filters on any of these POV cameras. Pictures?

SB

[BritishCubBloke]

I'd like to see what any of you are doing to mount ND filters on any of these POV cameras. Pictures?

I second that. Love to see if anyone has any pics.

[mountainmatt]

Steve, I second what 16-Bravo said, the standby mode is a handy feature and really extends the battery life. I'll most likely pick up and extra battery or two for those long camping trips. But no, it doesn't have a on/off feature, only start/stop.

Stewart:
I'm not quite sure how to make a ND Filter work yet, but with some red neck ingenuity I'm sure someone can come up with something. Rage Cams does make a lens cover, but I think it may take away the ability to rotate the lens, which kinda defeats the purpose. It would be easy to put a filter on the cover though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/LENS-HOOD-COVER-...item2a09b58f82

Also, yes, this isn't a small bullet cam, it's a rather large POV cam. Here's a size comparison to a dollar bill.



16-Bravo, I'm using Magix Movie Edit Pro 17 for editing software. It does the job and you can really get detailed, but it has a learning curve when you start out. The low price was the main reason that I bought it.

[BritishCubBloke]

This does include an ND filter. Anyone got any experience with it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/LENS-HOOD-COVER-...item2a09b58f82

[swixtt]

i have the Drift as well, since last summer and used it primarily for flying, some mountain riding and skiing too. it really is a great camera. that ND filter looks like a very good option! i too would be keen to hear if anyone has used it.
subscribed!

[swixtt]

Curious what mount you used on the strut? i've used the handle bar one that comes with it and attached to the jury struts... but i think i get more vibration than yours showed. i get that wavy motion at certain rpms.

[mountainmatt]

Hey swixtt, welcome to the site! (from one newb to another)

I've been using this mount for the last year with positive results. I have the handlebar ram mount in the cabin and it's very easy/quick to swap.

http://www.pilotmall.com/product/RAM...t/new-products

[swixtt]

looks good. you use this one in the cabin http://www.ram-mount.com/CatalogResu...5/Default.aspx

the diameter of the Drift bar mount is too big from the tube inside my 7eca.

[mountainmatt]

Yep, that's the one I used inside. Works swell!

[SJ]

Supercub.Org folks go karting during the Graham Tx seminars... Drift 170HD in 720 mode.

[mountainmatt]

SJ, you needed a better mount.

Looks like fun, the camera did pretty well for the lighting conditions too.

[swixtt]

so after reading a bit here and someone saying the viewing area being larger on the 720p setting, i had to try it. i think i like it better. i shot a lot of mine in 1080p but am thinking of saving the space and just going with the lower setting.
interestingly one of the major complaints i had with WLMM was no speed control... looks like they fixed that with the latest rev. Snapshot feature is back too. i haven't used Vegas too much yet but plan to use it for the majority of editing(when there is time)

[mountainmatt]

Last weekend I played a little more with the HD170, this time adding a ND8 filter to help with the prop. For the most part it really helped and it does better at higher RPM's (makes sense). The only thing is, it's a pain to add a filter due to the fact that the lens rotates and it's really a wide angle. For the time being I just taped it on and as you can see I didn't do a very good job. And it's tilted... oops.

I'll have to come up with something better in the near future.

A short flight to KLIC and CO15. I have a takeoff,enroute and landing clip so you can see the different settings and speeds.

Also, the 720P HD option looks way better than the 360P.

[swixtt]

i like! the filter is the way to go for sure! i have some coming i hope for mine. one thing i noticed in it is the Exposure setting and possibly increasing that setting to see if it would help. have you tried that MM?

[mountainmatt]

Good idea swixtt, I haven't tried that yet. Next time I'm out I'll give it a try, both with the ND filter and without. It may be great for fine tuning on the fly. Nice pictures too!

[cubflier]

Matt,

Keep in mind that prop artifacts are based on some very simple math. At 1800 rpm your prop is turning 30 rps so a shutter speed of 1/60 will allow a 1/2 turn in a two blade prop which is all you need to eliminate the artifact. With a three blade prop you need the shutter to stay open for 1/3 of a turn and a four blade you would need a 1/4 turn of rotation with the shutter open to wipe out the artifact.

Assuming a two blade scenario like in a cub there are two stops of light in the normal operating range of idle to cruise rpm assuming 600 at idle and 2400 at cruise (600 to 1200 = 1 stop, 1200 to 2400 = 1 stop). So if your nd8 is fine at cruise and artifacts develop at 1200 then you are 1 stop from happiness. If they don't arrive till idle at say 600 then you need to add two stops to your nd8.

When I was looking at this I assumed a stacked arrangement would work since the nd8 ( 3 stops) is the only cheap plastic filter that I could find in the form of a cokin p154.

As for the manual setting on this cam it adds an exposure bias to the iso and may not produce the results you need if the exposure is correct in the first place.

Jerry

[swixtt]

i'm not sure i followed all of that... i get them at all speeds but don't get them in the evening during lower light
the beauty of these cameras is that it doesn't cost a dime to try different things out!

didn't know this could do Remote Pairing... pretty cool i think.

[mountainmatt]

Thanks Jerry for that detailed explanation.

I haven't tried the pairing yet, but I have a buddy with one also and may ask to borrow it.

[Pokette]

I ordered my stealth Drift HD. Hopefully I can get it working and post my results

[cubflier]

i'm not sure i followed all of that... i get them at all speeds but don't get them in the evening during lower light
the beauty of these cameras is that it doesn't cost a dime to try different things out!

didn't know this could do Remote Pairing... pretty cool i think.

Exactly - You will not see artifacts in low light because the shutter speed is slowed down to a speed that allows the blade to travel half circle and let the light fill in behind the prop. This is why the nd filters work - they simulate low light situations. Take your sunglasses and hold the lens in front of any of these cmos cams (try it with your iphone) and the artifact will disappear or at least mitigate somewhat.

The bottom line is you probably need around 4-6 stops of light reduction during a sunny day on these cams to completely smooth out the prop artifact at all rpms from take off to landing. An ND8 is 3 stops.

Cokin p152-154 are cheap filters that can be cut down and stacked to get the desired results. I suppose several layers of panty hose would work too.

Here is a chart of the shutter speeds needed to kill the prop artifact and various rpms. Keep in mind the only way to control shutter speed on these low end cams is to trick it into think is darker out than it really is.


propblur.jpg

Jerry