FYI....
December 2010, Shorai USA launched a line of "honeycomb lithium cell" batteries for recreational vehicles.
They're very light but put out 210 Cold Cranking AMPS. Should be plenty to crank over a Cub and at only 1.84 lbs, it's a way to cut 11.5 lbs off the weight of our PC680's.
Just a thought...
http://www.shoraipower.com/p-151-lfx14a1-bs12.aspx
Crash
Last edited by Crash; 02-10-2011 at 04:20 PM.
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
Nice. If the physical size allows, a guy could run two to double the amperage, too.
SB
Sounds like an excellent thought.Originally Posted by Crash
Why a person could add some of that weight back as wing candy and be that much better off, right?
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
I looked up the one for my Arctic Cat BearCat, and it is 14# lighter.. WOW..
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PA-12 fan
Crash, good find. I have the light weight battery in my cub now, but this is even better. Since hand proping my plane is really hard on my shoulder, I have been thinking of a back up battery. I kept the stock cub battery box in the original location and would have room for this new battery as well. It would be neat to figure out how to always keep the second one charged as well with out over charging it. You could run other things off it as well, like a couple of 12V. lights for camping ect. Just a thought
Bill
If I had to pick one plane, it would be the Super Cub. Im going to build one and try to find a 180 to put in it. I will need your help. Thanks
On the more info page it does say that it has a maximum charge rate of 14 amps. I don't know much about electricity, but wouldn't it be pretty easy to exceed the charge rate? Or am I missing something.
Dave
Looks like they have a 270 CCA in the same dimensions, weighs a kilo.....18ah charge rate
@Dave, I doubt you would have it take 14 amps of charge, or would even see it with other types of batteries unless it was nearly fully discharged. Read the FAQ on the shoraipower website, this is very different technology. For instance, in the cold they recommend burning a load for up to five minutes to have it internally heat itself first, then it will have more cranking energy. The charging voltages are very different too, no load voltages are very high (13.2 to 14.3). I never see charge rates of over 10amps (measured on my ECI digtial VM) on my plane with lightweight Oddessy, and that is only briefly (less than 1 minute) after say a start up with highly cold soaked battery (say -30F to -40F). Since the Shorai has very low internal resistance, it might take the bulk charge a little longer, but I am guessing (key word here) that it would be hard to put 14amps sustained in to it under typical operations. And as nanook stated, they do make one with a 18ah charge ability. Read the FAQs
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PA-12 fan
The Odessy has a designed operating life of 10 to 12 years. What do you suppose this battery is.
I can't see any reference to reserve power or load times. I wonder how these batteries will compare to Odyssey for extended or repetitive cranking cycles? I'll wait for somebody else to do field testing. My Odysseys have earned their keep for now.
SB
Looks like the terminals are set up reverced from the oddossy batt maybe you can get them the other way haven't checked
Steve C
you can order them either way....they are also coming out with a 24 and a 30ah battery in march...I emailed them asking what size the new batteries will be, but have not heard back...
Last edited by nanook; 02-11-2011 at 02:01 PM.
Ya, with enough "wing candy" you might even get it to fly as good as a stock wing.Sounds like an excellent thought.
Why a person could add some of that weight back as wing candy and be that much better off, right?
Crash
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
I wonder how to ensure the thing doesn't catch fire, with respect to the cargo aircraft incidents in recent history? Can you charge these things the same way as a lead-acid battery? I wouldn't think so.
Aviationinfo
it has a port with data for charging also.... but they are shy on info for using that....
they get real exciting when overcharged.....(the videos below are intentionally done... but still have seen many aircraft overvolt/overcharge...so.... I would only install a Lion with a smart charge controller )
watch at about 1:02
and this guy WAS using proper charger... and it blew up...
Last edited by mike mcs repair; 02-12-2011 at 02:45 PM.
Mike, I can't see the videos on my iPad, did you delete them?
http://spaincub.wordpress.com
no they are the Flash versions....
so you will have to go directly to youtube on your Ipad and search for "overcharge lion fire", that should return/show you the html5 versions you can see....
Pretty scarey when it happen's that would bring any plane down. Right now my over voltage protector is not working on my cub and I want to replace it next week. Guess I won't fly it until thats done.
Thanks for showing that Mike, its a eye opener.
Bill
If I had to pick one plane, it would be the Super Cub. Im going to build one and try to find a 180 to put in it. I will need your help. Thanks
I don't think these batteries are Lith-Ion like those video batteries. Now I would be worried about your laptops, because many/most laptop batteries are lith-ion.
I may buy one of the Shorai batteries for my Arctic Cat, and see how it does. They are running them in a lot of motorcycles and snowmachines, so those charging alternators must do good with the batteries.
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PA-12 fan
Umm... "SHORAI LFX Lithium-Iron Powersports battery"
I thought Lithium Iron Prismatic was different than Lithium Ion... Here is the chemical description from their site:
Q. What makes Shorai LFX different from other batteries?
A.Shorai LFX batteries contain Shorai-proprietary eXtreme-Rate Lithium Iron prismatic cells (chemistry LiFePO4). Shorai LFX contain no poisonous lead, no dangerous acid, and do not create explosive gasses during charge, as traditional Lead-Acid batteries do. Compared to lead-acid, Shorai LFX lithium are also extremely light, have much lower self-discharge rate, do not sulfate (i.e. do not degrade while sitting unattended), and are environmentally friendly.
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PA-12 fan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium...sphate_battery
The LiFePO4 battery uses a lithium-ion-derived chemistry and shares many of its advantages and disadvantages with other lithium ion battery chemistries.
However, one key advantage over other lithium-ion batteries is the superior thermal and chemical stability, which provides better safety characteristics than lithium-ion batteries with other cathode materials.[6] Due to significantly stronger bonds between the oxygen atoms in the phosphate (compared to the cobalt), oxygen is not readily released, and as a result, lithium iron phosphate cells are virtually incombustable in the event of mishandling during charge or discharge, and can handle high temperatures without decomposing.[6]
Lithium Iron Phosphate chemistry also offers a longer cycle life over standard lithium ion cells.[6]
The use of phosphates also reduces the cost, safety and environmental concerns of Cobalt cells, particularly in regards of cobalt entering the environment through improper disposal.[6]
One of the other major advantages for LiFePO4 when compared with LiCoO2 is higher current or peak-power rating.[7]
Last edited by mike mcs repair; 02-13-2011 at 09:49 PM.
OK, just viewed them on the laptop... wow... not planing on putting anything like that in the plane with me.
OK...... so what I am getting is that these are NOT the same type as the batteries that explode in the video. There is a difference between Lith-Ion(explodes) and Lith-Iron(not prone to exploding). So this may be something to look into. It would be the cheapest way I know of to cut 10 pounds.
Bill
I am an ADV rider and originally got this "New Battery announcement" off the ADV thread. If Shorai is making them to go directly under your butt on an "on/off road" Dual Sport motorcycle, I'd think they're safe enough to install under my butt in a Cub.
http://www.advrider.com/
Another thought is they're small and light enough that you could install one on the firewall to get it out of the cockpit. Doing this would give you really short starter leads plus give you a warm battery when you pre-heat in the winter.
Just a thought,
Crash
Last edited by Crash; 02-14-2011 at 07:23 PM.
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
I just researched the battery they sell for BMW motorcycles, which have a 30 amp alternator, this makes me feel the 18amp max charge is no issue.
I plan on switching to the b&c 8 amp alternator so no issue there, I think I will try one.
6 lbs for new alternator and 14 for the battery, maybe I will keep a starter...
Sent from my HTC Evo using Tapatalk
I don't know anything about batteries, but all my buddies are really in to the idea of maintenance charging. I get ten years out of a Concorde, and my buddies are getting about two years on their batteries. I fly every day, they hang a charger on their batteries and go do other things.
The J-4 has an Odyssey - the aircraft wind-driven generator has not been working, so they charge it with one of those neat battery minders. After one year, the battery was useless, and bulging like it was going to explode. Use caution.
Ignorant opinion, of course.
Very good idea. I am going to try one for the Cat, and see how it works.
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PA-12 fan
One thing to remember, lith-ions need to be able to dump heat....put them someplace that is not hot....don't pack insulation around them in the box....they need to be able to shed heat....
I thought it takes a special charger for odessy. As well as the Optima six pack battery. Here's a link. Also, have the cub pilots checked the output of the wind generator when in flight, it might be the problem with cooking the Odessy.
http://www.odysseyfactory.com/chargers.html
Last edited by Fortysix12; 02-15-2011 at 06:27 AM.
I have five Odyssey batteries that I can think of and don't own any special chargers. They kick that little Energizer bunnies' azz. Amazing performance and longevity from such a small package. Batteries Plus has stocked similarly built AGM batteries for ATVs and Snowgos for years and I've converted my toys to the AGM batteries and have left flooded batteries behind. The imposters are good but they aren't as good as Odyssey, but Odyssey doesn't make ATV sizes and the new wheelers just don't have any room for bigger batteries. These new batteries look interesting but there's more to a battery than cold cranking amps. I'll be watching for a pirep once somebody actually puts some time on one of these, especially in something like Scooters snowgo in cold temps. The other real test will be storage life of a charged battery. Seasonal equipment like wheelers eat batteries because they sit unused for long periods. That's another place the Odysseys shine. Maybe these new batteries will, too. I hope so. I'll be a customer. Polaris wheelers are a pain to start with the pull cord and Polaris charging systems are a bad as it gets so a good battery is a must.
SB
so im going to bite here. what is really needed to get a field approval on this gem. if i had some help here id do the testing and report back to all. i have a b&c lightweight alt radio trans strobes gps etc and a ancient starter. any thoughts on how i should build me field approval case
yup need field approval for sure.... actually 2, one to approve the item, and one to install it.... might be on one fourm......
you ask your fsdo guy first is how I would do it up here, they will lay out what they would need for info or flat out say no chance(which I prefer to know before wasting allot of time)
There are Lithium aviation batteries at Sun n Fun, Hanger D at Wicks Aircraft Booth
A supercub member stopped by yesterday
If you read the small print on the shorai " lead acid / lithium equivelency " page, you see the Ah comparison and cranking power per Ah.
You would need a large battery to deliver the current to turn over an airplane starter. The ones at the show are twice as powerful
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