We received word at DCA HQ that two new kits (O-320 compatible and LSA-eligible) have been added to the FAA's approved kits list! I won't clutter up the forum here (don't want to stray into "advertising" accidentally), so you can find more info at http://dakotacub.wordpress.com, or PM me for more info.
Great to hear and a Here here here to Dakota Cubs Amy. Are you allowed to talk about how this "manufacturer" pulled off the light sport miracle with standard parts? I mean if you have any inside knowledgeInformation about a product can't be considered advertising with first release I wouldn't think.. If I sell a part I only have one of, then that belongs in classifieds and if a manufacturer wants to offer a special or whatever then they should buy a banner ad but just discussing kits and features is one of the reasons we all come here. Course what do I know, I'm always surprised when posts I've contributed to wind up in R&R! Anyway inquiring minds want details Amy...
very cool!
thanks for the update....
Ah, the confusion between being eligible to be operated under the LSA rules and E-LSA/S-LSA. That could be an entire thread unto itself, but here is the Reader's Digest version:Originally Posted by qsmx440
Great to hear and a Here here here to Dakota Cubs Amy. Are you allowed to talk about how this "manufacturer" pulled off the light sport miracle with standard parts? I mean if you have any inside knowledge
Firstly, the Super 18 LT is NOT an E-LSA. To be an E-LSA you must have an S-LSA (in other words, you have to have a factory-built version to have a kit version).
We do not have an S-LSA yet. As our demonstrator (160AK, my current steed) is equipped/built, it is slightly too heavy to meet the empty weight restrictions of the S-LSA rule. An S-LSA is not "certified," per se, but must meet certain testing requirements. We might like to pursue the S-LSA market eventually, but for now the kit fills part of the niche at least.
There are a few easy areas to bring the S18 LT down to the S-LSA empty weight (calculated by the equation 1320-380-(0.5 * horsepower); 380=2 FAA passengers)--the electrical system, tires, and landing gear, in about that order. However, we're not thrilled about paring down the airplane too much, and we like our PMA'd parts because we know they're proven.
We could build the airplane as a single-seat S-LSA with the required testing because the empty weight requirement changes (it becomes 1320-190-(0.5 * horsepower)), but I don't believe that is high on the priority list.
Joe Norris is the man that cleared this up for me, and is the guy who could answer all the technical questions with more detail and specific references.
Ask away, and I will do my best to answer or find an answer!
Amy I was using "light sport" as a slang term. I do know the difference cause anticub straightened me out a couple weeks ago. For an experimental build there is no horsepower or weight restriction to make legal for sport pilot privledges other than registering to a 1320# gross weight. LSA for a manufacturer is a lot tougher. Yes the single seat idea is probably where I'm going with mine. You left out wood prop.
also they can do 2024 t3 LE skins & much thinner then, than their soft ones and save 1/3 the weight with no draw backs...
what about a lighter extrusion for rib T material it is super too strong as is, and lighter inter-brace material maybe?
What thickness are you thinking for those LE's Mike? .016? And I am suprised no one has duplicated the Piper "T" section for the ribs to sell in bulk. I measured the material thickness of a tip rib that I have, and it's made of .012 material. Of course it's doubled over and I don't know the alloy. Mike are the rest of the ribs made with the same thickness aluminum in the rolled/formed "t" section?
Have always used Univairs blank skins which are .020 2024t3. Or made my own from same... Plenty stout....
Some of the original stuff I took off an early 50's cub was very soft .020 yet said 2024t3....
.012 is not available. .016 is the thinnest you can get and "T" section in bulk (12ft lengths) will be available in the next couple of months.
John Scott
While I respect the folks that use Cubs to make a living, my uses are for recreation and leisure - AND I'M NOT ASHAMED!!!
Neat. Any idea what those 12' sections will cost? and will the diagonals be available?
No word on cost...yet. Diagonals are a follow on consideration. New cap strip idea was for rebuilding damaged ribs. Length is enough to go completely around a full rib. The old hollow steel rivits were found to be available, but notreally cost effective.
John Scott
Last edited by Longwinglover; 01-05-2011 at 05:35 AM.
While I respect the folks that use Cubs to make a living, my uses are for recreation and leisure - AND I'M NOT ASHAMED!!!
The wing in the LT has been lightened up a bit--not sure what leading edge is on it but we have experimented with some lightening holes on the bottom side as well as other small things (they all add up).
Other easy areas would include the interior panels--we have the metal panels in right now but you could save some weight making them composite or just having fabric. We also have Oregon Aero seats installed (which my derriere does appreciate) but you could save some weight using a thinner cushion as well. A conscious builder could easily shave extra pounds off of the basic weight of the demonstrator by looking for all the little ways to trim off a few ounces here or there.
Changing the cap strip material would necessitate special manufacturing and materials ordering just for the lighter wing as opposed to pulling a set of ribs off the shelf, which is the current method. Perhaps something to look into, but as a young aircraft/kit manufacturer we have chosen the simplest method of component production. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a free lunch (but if you would like to prove me wrong, I will be at Oshkosh and New Holstein
I am, of course, still learning all the ins and outs of this business and have much to learn, and I love hearing from all of you!
Having seen Dakota Cub's wiffletree and how they load test their wings is pretty impressive. I have seen the old upside down wing loaded with plywood and sand bags. The wiffletree allows each part to be tested and if their is a failure that individual part can be changed and retested. Looks like an optimum way to make sure you have the lightest structure possible yet still meet the load requirements.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
If you come to the DCA open house, you can see what Steve is talking about
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