Your typical 180hp SC, 2300 lbs., what kind of distance is needed for T.O. and landing w/skis on:
-fresh powder (say 4")
-groomed snow runway
-wind blown ice lake
Assume good "on airport" pilot skills, 0 snow skills.
It is understood that a cruise prop won't be as effective as a climber.
What is average for some of you?
Any "oh, SHXX!" moments?
Thanks
-Bloodshot
zero experience here.... but i would think worry of stopping might be needed, you being new to skis.....Originally Posted by Bloodshot
Agreed... last thing to want would be full weight down and realize you'll need more planet!
There seems to be plenty of experience here, so I have no doubt it's the right place to inquire.
Appreciate the response Mike!
Thanks
-Bloodshot
Why would you be at 2300 lbs with no experience? It will be a pig at that weight.
Drain the fuel ALL out. Clean the plane totally out. Put 5 gallons in each tank and give it a try. Work up from there. Once the throttle is shoved in, NEVER back off.
There is no "pat" answer. Do a few take off and landing and it will be your experience not someones opinion.
Take care,
Crash
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
Oh 220 221 whatever it takes.
Actually, I wouldn't in the beginning. Still, an obvious question.Why would you be at 2300 lbs with no experience?
Trying to see if a 730' grass strip is enough.. or should I restrict skis to a nearby lake that's 1300'. This is where I would practice at, empty. Or is that not enough? I don,t know. The only experience I have with flying on skis is pricing them on the 'net.
Just trying to get a rough idea.
In July, I'm airborne inside 300' at 1600# off grass. How long is that extra real estate gonna last in january on skis at the same weight?
Thanks
-Bloodshot
You seem to have it dialed in Torch! If that's true, hell, I can practice in the driveway!
-Bloodshot
Its a line out of the movie Mr. Mom. I was joking obviously. If you have a cub with those numbers at your disposal then go try it out and see what you get. It is all about pilot proficiency. Practice, practice, practice. Know your OWN limitations. You can't buy experience. Lots of things are going to come into play with your distance. Weather/snow conditions vary on different days. I have been successful flying within the envelope of my personal and my airplane's capabilities. I don't fly on the edge of the envelope. Lots of people have done it and lots of them are dead. Patience is virtue in flying. Practice.
Refer to your POH, the TCDS, and the skis STC. I think certification requirements mandate that the plane perform equal or better with the modification. With skis, the STC paperwork includes a warning that under some snow conditions the takeoff run may be 10% longer.
Bloodshot - Nobody wants to commit a answer because if you put it in the trees at the end of the 730ft, any trees or obstacles? If you want some ski experience, which i would recomend, we'll get you some in 2 different 180hp cubs on 2200 hydrualic skis located in MN. Send me a pm and i'll get you started in the right direction.
Bloodshot, it’s not the takeoff that I am concerned with departing a short strip it is, do I have enough room to land and stop with no breaks???? In fresh powder snow and no tail ski I can stop real short. That same strip with hard packed icy conditions it’s not unrealistic to slide 1,200 ft before coming to a stop. Remember with no breaks you really need to think ahead of the airplane the full time it is on the ground.
Larry.
Bloodshot, I've landed on almost glare ice and slid 1/4 mile or so to where I wanted to stop then for the last 2-300 feet shut down the engine and step out on the ski then step off and grab the tail handle to get pulled along as a brake to stop. I run airglass 2000's on my 11 and in my opinion you just can't have too big of a ski but it also depends on your snow conditions. I see around 200 foot T/O's in most conditions and typical land on my hardpack groomed runway 600' or less with out trying to land really short. Practice and watch the winds on ice be careful and have fun because it doesn't get any better than ski flying.
Ha, great quote
Go play on a bigger lake, ( 1 mile or more ) with different snow conditions, it's different every day, most times I'm off in 200' or less but have run over 1000' when the snow is not your friend.Sometimes you need to spend a hour on a snowmobile to pack down a runway.
Glenn
Bloodshot, Are you a troll? A typical 180hp cub @ 2300lbs....Practice? How do you spell-bent-metal? If you really have more money than sense, you might believe you can put 2300lbs in a cub and go practice...I wouldn't recommend it....
Great responses folks. Thanks!
And no, Nanook. Quite the opposite. While I may be considerded a troll, (been called worse), I have much more brain than bucks, which is why I thought of asking free questions on a knowledgeable forum before dropping dollars on skis and planting a Piper amongst the pines.
At this point, I am picking brains.
The reason I mentioned 2300# was to get an idea what a full plane and an experienced pilot can generally get up and down in. It is understood that wx and pilot skills vary, usually greatly. The guys in Valdez land hot-rod planes in less length than an old station wagon. Same plane, perfect conditions, me flying, tack on 100+ feet. My point is, I am no a fool, and I have no delusions of skills I have or don't have.
Again, there is a tremendous amount of great info on this site. I thank you all for making it available.
-Bloodshot
Bloodshot
We have about 800' at our cabin with 80' trees on one end. It's a new strip that I've been in and out of a number of times on wheels with various loads, no problem. Went in a couple of weeks ago on skis and did my first "go around" there.
On skis there is no room for landing long or hot. I had to set up low and slow and get it down on the first few feet of the strip in order to not eat the trees on the other end. Snow was 4" loose powder over hard frozen ice/snow. So snow depth and conditions play a big role in how much strip you'll need in or out.
The best practice is to go out on a lake and slow fly your plane about 2 to 4 feet off the ice in a landing configuration (flaps, partial power). Slow it down till it drags the skis, then add a little power to pull it back off. Do this over and over till you know at what speed your plane quits flying at and how it feels when the bottom starts dropping out. The guys who win at Valdez do it in the landing phase and have this down to a natural instinct.
Take care,
Crash
Last edited by Crash; 12-29-2010 at 01:44 PM.
"The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom". Psalm 111:10
My only ski experience was several years ago in an Antares Ultralight. I had one OH S**T moment. Landed on a very icy runway in the spring and discovered that with only nylon skegs on my skis I had absolutly no steering, and could not stop with the engine running. Had to shut down and push the plane off the runway and back to my tiedown. Couple of guys preheating their Cub got a good chuckle out of it.
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