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Thread: RunwayFinder going offline because of FlightPrep?

  1. #1

    RunwayFinder going offline because of FlightPrep?

    Runway finders blog:
    http://blog.runwayfinder.com/2010/12/09/runwayfinder-going-offline/

    Here's AVwebs response.

    http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._203765-1.html

    Here's where they announced the patent:

    http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._201893-1.html

    Holey Moley. A patent on software?

    hmmm.... let's see... what does it take to make flight planning sofware?

    Free charts download from the FAA.
    Free Airport database download from the FAA.
    A web guy with some savvy with SQL Server database.
    And a lawyer....

  2. #2
    Update 12/10/2010 2:30pm PST
    A preliminary verbal agreement has been reached. Assuming we can work out the details over the next few days, RunwayFinder will remain online. I appreciate all of the messages of support. Sorry if I’m not able to respond to everybody personally. I’ll update this post as things progress.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Avweb.com

    http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._203818-1.html

    RunwayFinder To Fight FlightPrep Patent By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief

    RunwayFinder owner Dave Parsons says he will fight the patent awarded FlightPrep for online flight planning. In a blog post Parsons says he thinks he's found enough holes in the patent to defend his service's technology against it. "I think there is a clear path toward fighting the lawsuit against RunwayFinder, and potentially a way to invalidate their patent," Parsons wrote. He plans to represent himself and he won't have much time to prepare. He must answer the lawsuit filed by FlightPrep by Dec. 28. Meanwhile. FlightPrep is defending itself in the court of public opinion.

    In its most recent blog post, FlightPrep attempts to clear up what it claims are misconceptions about the patent, the lawsuit and the players involved. It also notes that patent protection is a constitutional right established to promote and reward innovation. Parsons' plan to fight the patent is a sharp reversal of his original decision to simply close the popular website. However, even after he shut the site down, FlightPrep declined to withdraw the suit. Although the court documents filed so far don't appear to specify damages, Parsons has previously quoted FlightPrep as calculating the damages in the millions of dollars based on a multiplication of the number of unique visits RunwayFinder gets each month (about 25,000) by the cost of FlightPrep's annual subscription of $149.

    Related Content:


    http://blog.runwayfinder.com/
    Quote Originally Posted by Runwayfinder.com

    Legal Counsel


    December 19, 2010 in News by Dave | 2 comments

    Thanks for all the comments and advice. I am working on retaining an attorney now. I also appreciate the offers to help with the expenses. As soon as I have something set up, I will let you know.
    I’ve started an email announcement list via Constant Contact. I’ll send out an email when I post something on the blog, so everybody doesn’t have to keep checking back. The sign-up form is on the left side of the main blog page. You’ll be able to easily unsubscribe at any time.
    I’m intentionally keeping my comments brief at this point. I very much appreciate all of the support.


  4. #4

    Navmonster no longer in operation?

    What happened to Navmonster? I checked weather on it this morning everything worked fine then a few minutes ago I looked and it says it's no longer in operation .I really liked it to do quick updates on the weather.

  5. #5
    Real Bummer


    Due to the litigious environment that we live in today, NavMonster is no longer in operation. I make little to no money off this site, and have neither the time, resources, nor money to defend myself against absurd patents. You just shouldn't be able to patent common sense and good programming skills, but sadly someone has. Best of luck to those that stay in the fight
    I need to make one thing perfectly clear: By closing this site, I give up the fight, but by no means do I admit any wrongdoing.
    Want to own and operate your own flight planning web site? NavMonster is available for purchase. Inquiries are welcomed
    Marc Alexander
    marc@navmonster.com
    Dec 20, 2010


    Link here for the curious.

  6. #6
    NavMonster was the BEST!

    Brad

  7. #7
    Wow. I use them all the time.

    Sad
    "If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman

  8. #8
    Make your displeasure known by letting your friends know how you feel about FlightPrep and their practices.

  9. #9

  10. #10
    http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news..._203825-1.html
    Quote Originally Posted by avweb.com
    December 19, 2010
    FlightPrep's Patent Could Be Upheld: Patent Attorney By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief





    FlightPrep's online flight planning patent could very well stand up to a court challenge, says pilot and patent attorney Lionel Lavenue. In an exclusive podcast interview with AVweb, Lavenue says the emotion and sentiment being expressed by those angered by FlightPrep's preliminary efforts to enforce the patent mean little in front of a jury. Much of the ire against Flight Prep stems from a feeling that they are attacking the "little guys" and requesting nondisclosure agreements to prevent those involved from talking to the press or each other. Lavenue says Flight Prep's strategy is actually quite normal, and protects the patent holder from an immediate countersuit of "a declaratory judgment of non-infringement." He also says it's common to approach smaller companies first before going after the more powerful entities to see what counter arguments might emerge. "The patent is not without warts," Lavenue said, but he also noted that a jury deciding infringement doesn't need to meet the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level of certainty. In fact, they only need a "51 percent" certainty -- more sure than not there's an infringement. Major players such as AOPA/Jeppesen, Flight Aware and Fltplan.com have all been contacted by Flight Prep and have all said they don't infringe and will not discuss the issue with Flight Prep. This could come back to haunt them in court, Lavenue said.

    FlightPrep's overtures to other flight planning websites has been circulated and it appears the same letter went to all of them. FlightPrep asks to enter into a nondisclosure agreement to discuss the matter before negotiating a licensing agreement. After consulting with a patent attorney, Fltplan.com owner Ken Wilson said it was felt the patent does not apply to their website and technology. Fltplan.com and other sites we contacted haven't heard more from Flight Prep since the conversation ended in September. According to Lavenue, if RunwayFinder loses its lawsuit in court, that would significantly strengthen FlightPrep's position and that it's likely major players would find it cheaper to reach a licensing agreement rather than enter a court fight. At least one website, not yet hit with a lawsuit, has told AVweb they intend to fight if challenged.

    Related Content:


  11. #11
    What goes around comes around. I've found that patience and revenge eaten cold can be very satisfying. NavMonster was the best. What a shame.
    Marine Corps Aviation since 1966

  12. #12
    That sucks, Cathy flight prepped us all over using Nav Monster. She even had me using it.
    Steve Pierce

    "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
    Henry Ford

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by mike mcs repair View Post
    Why would anyone try a patent infringement case with a jury. It would take 4 times as long to teach the jury the finer points of patent law than it would to try the case.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  14. #14
    I guess I don't understand the finer points of a quote yet. Got to practice some more.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  15. #15
    Lavenue said, but he also noted that a jury deciding infringement doesn't need to meet the "beyond a shadow of a doubt" level of certainty. In fact, they only need a "51 percent" certainty

    That was the part I wanted to quote.
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Peterson View Post
    I guess I don't understand the finer points of a quote yet. Got to practice some more.

    just type what you want, then higlight/select the part you want to be in the quote bubble... then hit the quote thingy above the editing box you are typing in...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Peterson View Post
    I guess I don't understand the finer points of a quote yet. Got to practice some more.
    Oh i see, since i made that story part of a quote, the software doesn't quote that old quote.... which I think is a bug/setting SJ need to adjust... thats kinda the whole point of quoting something is so people can have a context of what you are referring to.....

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by zane View Post
    Make your displeasure known by letting your friends know how you feel about FlightPrep and their practices.
    There's a petition now: http://boycottflightprep.com/

    Getting a bit of traffic.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by eaglepilot View Post
    There's a petition now: http://boycottflightprep.com/

    Getting a bit of traffic.
    make sure to use words that you would search for in like google, in your comments, so as to show that page in top search results for people looking for reviews of them....

  20. #20
    Thanks Mike
    Roger
    Based at O8XS. Sweeny Texas (Winter)
    Finlayson Lake, Ontario (Summer)
    I plan on living forever.......so far, so good !!!

  21. #21
    December 16, 2010

    Jeppesen, AOPA Say Flight Prep Patent Doesn't Affect Them
    Email this article |Print this article
    By Russ Niles, Editor-in-Chief




    AOPA and Jeppesen, two of the largest players in the online flight planning business, say a patent obtained by FlightPrep doesn't affect their products and they are not willing to discuss it. In a statement released Wednesday, AOPA says it will not meet with FlightPrep to discuss the patent and it will be business as usual for the product it provides. In fact, there's a new version coming out in a few weeks. FlightPrep didn't directly comment on AOPA and Jepp's reaction and had this to say: "FlightPrep has been in contact with Tom Haines and AOPA regarding our patent and online planner technology since 2007. FlightPrep is a small Oregon based business that is a proud AOPA advertiser, AOPA Summit participant, and our staff are proud members of AOPA as well as AOPA political action supporters." As we reported in Wednesday's AVwebBiz, RunwayFinder, a popular online flight planning site, shut down in the face of a lawsuit from FlightPrep.

    RunwayFinder founder Dave Parsons and FlightPrep are at odds over the summary of events leading to the current impasse and Parsons told AVweb the site will remain closed as he copes with the threat of a multi-million-dollar lawsuit launched by FlightPrep.
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  22. #22
    It also sounds like Runway finder is going to fight. Sadly, it is crazy what you can patent. I worked for a company that used to pay a royalty to Pitney Bowes for looking up (public) data in a table (zip to zone charts, if you were in that industry).

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  23. #23
    Henry Ford paid royalties for years on a guy that came up with the idea of the horseless. He never built one but just patented the idea.
    Steve Pierce

    "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
    Henry Ford

  24. #24
    That lawsuit made Henry Ford so mad that he helped Glenn Curtiss fight the Wright brothers patent infringment claim they had on the aileron.

  25. #25
    Yep, hence Curtis Wright Aeronautical.
    Steve Pierce

    "When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
    Henry Ford

  26. #26
    AOPA's e-thing carried this article today. They are missing the point: AOPA Article

    The point is to have an ONLINE resource like Navmonster so you can use it anywhere you have internet access on any computer, in case you don't have your computer with you.

    sj
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  27. #27

  28. #28
    From the website...

    "RunwayFinder is back on the air! Thanks to your overwhelming support and some great communication sat down with FlightPrep and FlightPrep agreed to dismiss the lawsuit! The exact details of the settlement license are convidential. RunwayFinder doees not ask for or support any further boycott of FlightPrep, its services, products, or owners. This is a big win for RunwayFinder and the pilots who depend on its services! We're back and lawsuit free, come check out www.runwayfinder.com. Again, thanks you for all of your support."
    Last edited by behindpropellers; 04-15-2011 at 08:51 AM.
    "Often Mistaken, but Never in Doubt"
    ------------------------------------------

  29. #29
    They misspelled their own web address in the press release...

    go to www.runwayfinder.com

  30. #30

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