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Thread: Stewart System Paint

  1. #161
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Avon View Post
    .....the water and OIL traps aren't right
    I also keep wondering if the traps themselves, cutting down on air VOLUME of air......

    is their a simple way we can test your air volume???
    maybe a trick like the calibration plug with hole of a known size plugged into end of your compression tester...X pressure in, Y pressure should still be attainable on second gauge???
    or between gauges, or????????

  2. #162
    this would be a title NimpoCub's Avatar
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    I felt the AHA moment when reading the contaminated air source, and also the sanding a contaminated surface. I remember (that happens sometimes) when using those "tac rags" that since they felt 'waxy', I was afraid of smearing 'wax' on the surface. I wiped thoroughly but VERY lightly. I learned long ago that many light coats is better 'n a few thick ones.

    I used the PolyStuff because it was recommended, and has been proven for many years. I like that my fabric is plastic coated, not just painted. Built a respirator so I'm STILL respirating!
    Nimpo Lake Logan... boonie SuperCubber
    200mi (300km) from nearest stoplight... just right! - "Que hesitatus fornicatus est"

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardtailjohn View Post
    Tyndal, I notice that you've posted twice, both about this, and still haven't talked to the factory. Why don't you talk to them first, before badmouthing them? They're awesome people, awesome product...I don't know why yours is having trouble.. I've used it for over 10 years and like I said before...all problems I had, I traced back to me. The only issue I had that was anything like what you're saying was because I didn't topcoat the ecofill soon, and it got some contamination in it.. again, my fault.
    If you google stewart systems paint, this is one of the most active sites discussing it and its problems. And I'm only badmouthing Ekopoly. As I've said, I really like everything else. Enough that I want to continue using it, just with a different topcoat.

    I had other issues last summer that needed help from the factory. Yes they do try to help as best as they can from almost 2000 miles away. I shot some expired paint, my fault, and although the opened can shot perfect, the unopened can was turning to pudding a few minutes after being mixed. They said to sand and shoot with new product. I bought fresh stuff, sanded, painted, and it peeled immediately. They replaced it, no charge, but as their distribution network is rather poor, it takes weeks to get any product. In this little project, the first topcoat was two weeks old before applying the next. Makes me wonder about the adhesion of future touchups down the road.

    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Tyndal, It sounds like you let it sit for a period of time before shooting the top coat. I believe that they say a maximum of 10 days or sand it again before the top coat. Did you leave it too long and not sand it enough? I had some peeling but only on a fiberglass nose bowl, built by persons unknown with materials unknown, around the edges. I figure that I didn't do a through enough sand and clean in that area. I let the fuselage sit all winter before spraying the top coat, then following Dan Stewart's instructions did the top coat. It is now going on two years without flying and it has shown no changes at all. I've done a lot of fabric work over the years and get very impatient when spraying. I hate doing it. I think mine came out great. I call it a 10 footer. From ten feet it looks great. I definitely would use the process again.
    Nope. It was all applied within the time constraints in the manual. After spraying the parts were kept nice and warm in my house for a couple of weeks before installation. Mine didn't show any changes for the first two years either. It wouldn't be so bad if it was on aluminum or fiberglass, a quick strip, sand and prime and you are ready to try again. The factory replacing the paint for free doesn't help much when you have to cover the cost of fabric, tapes, glue and fill.

  4. #164

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    I have about a pint of Pontiac Red EkoPoly (does not match Aerothane Pontiac Red) that is approaching 1 year old. If anyone wants it let me know. Hate to waste it. I am in Anchorage. PM me for contact info.

  5. #165
    fobjob's Avatar
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    So, does the Stewart's Juneau White match the Polyfiber or the Randolph/Certified Coatings Juneau White??
    The Stewart's seems a bit blueish....is it a serious mismatch, like wings one color and fuselage the other?
    Last edited by fobjob; 11-05-2012 at 01:42 PM.

  6. #166
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    No matter which source of paint, any two cans may not match exactly. This is particularly true if they are not mixed in a large batch before being placed in the cans.
    N1PA

  7. #167

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    need helpm with stewart system

    Hi guys
    I am new to the group and I am looking hor help. I've painted a plane years ago with Aerothane, not the best looking but not bad for a first one. The only thing I hated about it is the toxic fumes. a few years ago a second project. this time I used Stewart's. It worked great and I loved it. this year (My wife says there is no cure for it) a third one. Then hell went loose. eko poly went on fine. as I tried to apply the paint, it is eyefishing like you wouldn't beleive. Dan at Stewart is helping me as much as he can, but 3000 miles apart doesn't help. we've looked at different possible contaminants, but so far no real progress. A friend of mine, in a different hangar is having the same problem. Anyone ever encountered somethin similar??
    Any help will be welcome
    Pierre

  8. #168
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    I am not a paint expert, even though I have done a lot of it. My most recent one was with Stewarts. Are you certain that you are getting dry air in your hose. If the compressor is making water you could get the fish eye. Another thing that I found was that the temperature needs to be at least 70 degrees F. It just did not lay on very well at lower temperatures.
    N1PA

  9. #169
    www.SkupTech.com mike mcs repair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
    Hi guys
    I am new to the group and I am looking hor help. I've painted a plane years ago with Aerothane, not the best looking but not bad for a first one. The only thing I hated about it is the toxic fumes. a few years ago a second project. this time I used Stewart's. It worked great and I loved it. this year (My wife says there is no cure for it) a third one. Then hell went loose. eko poly went on fine. as I tried to apply the paint, it is eyefishing like you wouldn't beleive. Dan at Stewart is helping me as much as he can, but 3000 miles apart doesn't help. we've looked at different possible contaminants, but so far no real progress. A friend of mine, in a different hangar is having the same problem. Anyone ever encountered somethin similar??
    Any help will be welcome
    Pierre

    You are putting it on to heavy per coat

  10. #170
    Tim's Avatar
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    I had the same problem with ecofill. Clean fabric and a filter at the paint gun fixed the problem for me

  11. #171
    snowyriver
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    Whilke using Stewart's I had some fish eye appear on my wingtips when I used DX330 Wax and Grease remover. It seemed to leave a film; I could see the "eyes" developing as I sprayed! Turns out it's a great product but you should wipe it on and then wipe over the area with another clean rag. I guess I thought all the surface stuff would just stick on the first rag. You also need to give it time to evaporate good. I just went back to good old acetone. One other thing, I noticed that I had more of a tendancy to get runs with the "new" premium paint. Don't know if it was just me or what.

  12. #172
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    Just finished painting my pacer with ekopoly premium. We were getting fisheyes in the first 3 goes, ended up being the paper cups used to measure components, guessing some waxy coating on said cups.

    After a little practice I've been getting the paint to flow out like a dream, better shine than Imron or Centari IMO. I followed Jason's most recent youtube instructions carefully. If you can get the gloss to follow the second pass by about 3 seconds you're golden. I'm totally in love with this paint right now.

    Sam

  13. #173

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    Hi guys
    I, too, am having problem with the paint. It just won't stick to the Ekofill. The Ekofill went on like a charm. But when I tried to apply the paint, it fisheyes like crazy. Dan at Stewart's tried to help me, but so far no joy. anybody had similar problem? How did you fix it? do you know of any other product that would stick to ekofill? I talked to people at Polyfiber and they claim that Aerothane will stick good; any comment on this one? Did anyone ever used that additive that minimize eyefishing? I'd reall y hate to fix that mess with a knife. That would be costly.... From what I read in the thread, that paint seem to be quite tricky to apply; good thing there was no solar eclips, it would have been ever worst .

  14. #174

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    Sorry about the last same post, I am no computer wizz and thought my yesterday's post didn't go through, neither didn't I see the answers..
    On the first contact with Dan at stewart's we suspected a few things. So, I bought a brand new compressor, air hose and a better gun. Tried again, no joy. Temperatures were always over 70F with low humidity. Did the same as on the video, but as soon as I apply more paint it fisheyes on me. The conclusion so far is contamination. What contaminated it, that is a big one. No clue... I tried to clean it with 99% iso something alcohol, lacker thinner. Nothing seems to work. The next step is to apply eko prime to see if it will stick, if it does, Dan says the paint will stick no problem. All I can do for now is wait for the weather to improve, it has been raining cats and dogs for the last week.

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
    Hi guysI, too, am having problem with the paint. It just won't stick to the Ekofill. The Ekofill went on like a charm. But when I tried to apply the paint, it fisheyes like crazy. Dan at Stewart's tried to help me, but so far no joy. anybody had similar problem? How did you fix it? do you know of any other product that would stick to ekofill? I talked to people at Polyfiber and they claim that Aerothane will stick good; any comment on this one? Did anyone ever used that additive that minimize eyefishing? I'd reall y hate to fix that mess with a knife. That would be costly.... From what I read in the thread, that paint seem to be quite tricky to apply; good thing there was no solar eclips, it would have been ever worst .
    Not sure about Aerothane, but I know Polytone will stick

  16. #176
    skywagon8a's Avatar
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    Did you wipe it down and rinse with Stewart's cleaner before you sprayed the top coat? That could be a reason for the fish eye?
    N1PA

  17. #177

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Not sure about Aerothane, but I know Polytone will stick
    Have you tried it? I'd rather use Polytone instead or Aerothane, simpler, easier, easier to fix and cheaper. I do not really care about the hi gloss

  18. #178

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    Quote Originally Posted by skywagon8a View Post
    Did you wipe it down and rinse with Stewart's cleaner before you sprayed the top coat? That could be a reason for the fish eye?
    I wiped it with isopropyl alcohol, just like the recommend

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
    Have you tried it? I'd rather use Polytone instead or Aerothane, simpler, easier, easier to fix and cheaper. I do not really care about the hi gloss
    Yes, I tried it and it will stick, but if I were you I would try to figure out why you're having trouble with the Stewarts top coat

  20. #180
    snowyriver
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    Also, Jason said some isopropyl alcohol is shown at 70% alcohol which means it's got a lot of water in it. He said look for some in the 90 ish % range. I looked and was unsucessful. Went back to acetone. Craig

  21. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowyriver View Post
    Also, Jason said some isopropyl alcohol is shown at 70% alcohol which means it's got a lot of water in it. He said look for some in the 90 ish % range. I looked and was unsucessful. Went back to acetone. Craig
    You are right, I 've been there. I finally found some 99%. what I used yesterday to wash before painting is BAFS 909. Googgle it and you'll see it is meant to clean contaminants and is good for waterborn paints
    I painted a flap tonight, it looks half decent tonight, just can't wait to see what it will look like in the morning. Should it work good for me I'll let you know what I did. If it doesn't I'll tell you what not to do

  22. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    Yes, I tried it and it will stick, but if I were you I would try to figure out why you're having trouble with the Stewarts top coat
    Believe me I tried to figure out what went wrong, but so far, I cannot pinpoint what I did to contaminate.

  23. #183
    behindpropellers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
    I wiped it with isopropyl alcohol, just like the recommend
    What did you wipe it with?
    Piper J-5A C-90 N40877
    J-5 Project Pictures

  24. #184
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    First I heard of the cups!! Jason has had us using the wax dixie cups. Hmmmmm
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a well preserved body but rather to slide in sideways, well used up proclaiming "WOW What a Ride"

  25. #185
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    Paper cups for the glue not the paint. Always used proper mixing cups for mixing paint.

    There has been instances where the fabric surface gets contaminated while sitting in a shop where other maintenance is being performed. If the parts are not covered with a bed sheet or plastic and someone is using any thing like LPS, WD-40, Plexus, Tri-flow, spray wax or polish, Or any aerosol liquids the overspray mist can float all the way across the shop and land on the fabric. Things like kerosene or oil heaters will absolutely contaminate the surface because they leave an invisible soot in the air. We had a customer that had issues painting whenever a turbine airplane was running on the ramp next the their hangar and the fan was on in the paint booth sucking that jet exhaust into the paint booth.

    If you get fish eyes on one surface and not another one then the surface is contaminated not the paint. For example if the masking tape and paper look great but the fabric or metal part fish-eyed then the part is contaminated. Question is where did the contamination come from? Was the primer contaminated by the container it was measured or stirred with? Is the paint gun contaminated? Was the surface contaminated by airborne contaminates while it sat around the shop waiting to get painted? Is the air supply for the paint gun oily or have water in it?

    I have been told that some brands of Isopropyl alcohol are not very pure and that you really only want to use 91%. I can't remember why 99% is not recommended.

    Some basic rules of for painting with any brand of paint are -

    Never use any containers that had food in them
    Never use silicone anything anywhere near paint - things like spatulas to scrape the can with
    Only use new paint cups and stir sticks
    Do not use a dirty paint gun with cleaning solvent residue in it.
    Do not excessively lube the parts of your gun before spraying with it. And only use the proper spray gun lube.
    Make sure your air supply is water and oil free. Drain the tank often. Do not use silicone air lines only use pure rubber hose.
    You want to get to .01 micron filtration or better. The basic water trap/regulator units found on most compressors only go to 15-25 microns filtration which is not enough.
    Do not use a ton of pipe dope to seal up the connections on your air system. Excess residue can contaminate the air supply.


    Finding out what contaminated the surface can be difficult sometimes. Everyone has had that situation where you're looking for something and you just cant find it even though it's right under you nose. Then you ask your buddy to help and in two seconds he finds it for you. Hopefully something from this group discussion will help find the cause of the contamination and better yet keep others from getting contaminated surfaces.

    Jason

  26. #186
    Clyde Barker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgerard View Post
    Finding out what contaminated the surface can be difficult sometimes. Everyone has had that situation where you're looking for something and you just cant find it even though it's right under you nose. Then you ask your buddy to help and in two seconds he finds it for you. Hopefully something from this group discussion will help find the cause of the contamination and better yet keep others from getting contaminated surfaces.

    Jason

    When I covered my experimental cub everything went great except the ailerons. Really bad fisheye, and I ended up cutting fabric off and recovering.

    I had stored both ailerons on a surface that was covered with carpet. I think the carpet must have been treated with a silicon treatment to prevent staining, and the silicon transferred to the fabric.

    Lesson learned - make sure anything that touches the fabric isn't contaminated!

    Clyde

  27. #187
    Flying Miss Daisy's Avatar
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    It is funny about the air lines. I installed the Devilbis Dry air filters and the unit at the compressor was and is fine. The unit in the booth beyond the piping system passes through the shop which I kept cold and into the booth. Within a week after install I noticed the tell tale eye showed the filter as wet and needs replacemnt. It was the lines condensing in the cold shop on the way to the booth was my thought.
    I use the graduated paint mixing cups for the final process and only the wax dixies on the ecofill. I do have the Taylorcraft in the shop and it is not covered well except with a coat of dust. Will the ecoclean solve the cleaning issues of the fabric to remove any oils from exposed to open shop?
    John
    John
    Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention to arrive safely in a well preserved body but rather to slide in sideways, well used up proclaiming "WOW What a Ride"

  28. #188
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Miss Daisy View Post
    It is funny about the air lines. I installed the Devilbis Dry air filters and the unit at the compressor was and is fine. The unit in the booth beyond the piping system passes through the shop which I kept cold and into the booth. Within a week after install I noticed the tell tale eye showed the filter as wet and needs replacemnt. It was the lines condensing in the cold shop on the way to the booth was my thought.
    I use the graduated paint mixing cups for the final process and only the wax dixies on the ecofill. I do have the Taylorcraft in the shop and it is not covered well except with a coat of dust. Will the ecoclean solve the cleaning issues of the fabric to remove any oils from exposed to open shop?
    John
    John
    John,

    That is a good question... I have a 170 ragwing that has been hanging in the shop for the last several weeks covered up to ecofill... would like to know if the cleaning solution with alcohol rub down will take away any contaminates that may be now on the surface before painting it... The other wing came out nice, would hate to screw up this one...

    Brian.

  29. #189
    jgerard's Avatar
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    EkoClean is a pretty effective emulsifying detergent and if you were to wash the fabric with it like you wash a car it should lift most contaminates. Heavy oils, wax, and grease may be more of an issue. If you decide to scrub down a fabric surface and hose it off I would use a 5:1 ratio of water and EkoClean and lightly scrub with one of our polyester quilted towels we sell. You can scrub hard with it and it won't leave lint behind and doesn't fall apart when wet. The surface will need to dry 24-48 hours depending on your humidity before painting. Waterborne paints and damp surfaces don't mix, you'll get fish-eyes. EkoClean will not effect the paint job. I have poured it full strength to the paint in the gun and sprayed it out to see if there would be defects and no issues at all. I have soaked the fabric with it and scrubbed to the point of it being soapy bubbly and then brushed the EkoFill into the weave with no issues. I would not hesitate to wash a fabric part like a car and scrub it down good then hose it off and let dry before continuing. The safest thing to do if it's been sitting and you suspect the possibility of contamination is to wash it, let dry, then spray a coat of the EkoPrime primer/sealer on it before shooting the top coat. I am curious as to how well the 909 cleaner works and will go find some to try.


    Im sure for those that have been around fabric airplanes long enough you have seen where solvent based dope or other systems had interlayer adhesion issues down the road where the color comes off and the silver is still there. That is another example of either waiting too long between coats or contamination between coats. Solvent based paints hide contamination much better but they still suffer the effects.

    Polyester quilted lab grade lint free towels
    photo.JPG

    The best thing to do is keep all fabric parts covered and protected when not working on them and try to avoid all sources of contamination while in the covering process. A trip to Walmart for a bunch of cheap queen sized top sheets is to cover up your parts with is money well spent. If you want to you can then put painters plastic over the bed sheets.

    Regarding towels and rags used for wiping or sheets for covering up parts... Do not use anything that has been through your washer and dryer. Fabric softener residue which is always in the dryer will contaminate a paint job. If you wash anything for use on fabric parts let it air dry.


    Jason
    Last edited by jgerard; 05-29-2013 at 03:38 PM.

  30. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgerard View Post
    The safest thing to do if it's been sitting and you suspect the possibility of contamination is to wash it, let dry, then spray a coat of the EkoPrime primer/sealer on it before shooting the top coat.

    Jason
    The EkoPrime is flexible enough to go on the fabric?????

    Would this be a good solution to turn the EkoFill surface white before applying topcoats? People have spoken about the white topcoat not covering very well and I think you have recommended only applying colours over white.

    Thanks,
    Andrew.

  31. #191
    jgerard's Avatar
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    Oh yeah EkoPrime is wicked flexible. It's used all the time on re-paints over other fabric systems. And we recommend it as a white base over the charcoal grey EkoFill before painting bright colors like Yellow which is translucent. Regarding white not covering... It's mostly just application because we sell more white than any other color and only about 5% of the customers that have used some version of white say they had trouble getting coverage. 99% of painting is prep and application. We have made big improvements in the products over the years to simplify the application. I am still trying to figure out how to get the paint to jump out of the can and paint it's self but I think that may take forever

    There is nothing wrong with throwing a quick light coat of white EkoPrime over the grey before painting other that you loose the contrast and it's like driving in a snow storm trying to see where you're going shooting white paint over white primer.

    I make it easy and make up some yellow primer when shooting yellow paint so I have an even better base and when painting areas like the hinge pockets on flaps and ailerons it's much easier to get full color in those tight areas. I can custom tint primer to all the same colors as the paint.

    The new EkoPoly Premium has been extremely successful and easier to apply with more durability, longer pot life, and less finicky about application technique or equipment. Playing around with it I have found I can do 1 coat paint jobs but It's best if you do a tack fog coat/wet coat application like shown in our YouTube videos.

    I had a good conversation with Pierre from Vortex Aviation last night and it sounds like he was able to clean the contamination from his parts and seal them up with the EkoPrime. After doing that the paint went on just fine. I am going to find some of the BASF 909 cleaner to play with.

    We work hard to find solutions and help as much as we can with every single customer.

    Jason

  32. #192

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    Quote Jason: "I am still trying to figure out how to get the paint to jump out of the can and paint it's self but I think that may take forever "

    Under the category of silly ideas: Why not a scuba tank based rental system that has the dry uncontaminated air, built in automatic mixing system, temp and humidity indicators, correct and pre serviced gun etc. ? Most folks doing this really don't want to paint full time, buy a special compressor, hose, ?, gun, setup just for one aircraft paint job but hiring it done requires moving the aircraft so they slog on. At the end of painting there would be simple directions to clean the gun or open it up and drop it in a 5 gallon bucket of cleaner for the return and to get the damage deposit back. It would leave only the surface contamination and painting skill to deal with. At the cost of time and expense, not to mention possibly ruining the surface such that it has to be sanded or the paint fails later it would be neat to dumb down the process a bit like your "wish" above. surely it would be worth a few extra hundred dollars in shipping and rental fees?

    Now back to reality...

  33. #193

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    has any body used Stewarts to repair polyfiber
    do I use MEK to remove polyfiber back to the cloth and then start back with Stewards
    or can I just sand the poly fiber a little and then apply Stewards
    Need to put a patch on belly of my PA11, there is oil present.

  34. #194

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    If it is a minor repair, you can do anything you want. I routinely use the Stewarts glue and Ekofill to patch dope or Poly Fiber. If it is a major repair, you probably cannot mix systems, unless Stewarts has obtained approval to do so.

    We have Poly Fiber tapes coming loose - I just glue a tape on top of the offending seam, then finish with Ekofill and dope.

    On the colors - Randolph and Stits, in what seems to be an effort to confuse us, have changed the stock colors. Stewarts seems to match the original colors better thanit matches ese new colors. Juneau white never had any yellow in it until very recently - it was insignia white with a touch of black.

    all opinion.

  35. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vortex View Post
    You are right, I 've been there. I finally found some 99%. what I used yesterday to wash before painting is BAFS 909. Googgle it and you'll see it is meant to clean contaminants and is good for waterborn paints
    I painted a flap tonight, it looks half decent tonight, just can't wait to see what it will look like in the morning. Should it work good for me I'll let you know what I did. If it doesn't I'll tell you what not to do

    I did my wings this week end. I sprayed on Saturday. temp 30C, I got either runs or no shine at all. That pissed me off quite good. This morning, temp was around 18, 20C, I did cool down too I sanded with 320, wahsed it with 99% alcool. reduced the paint only up to 25 sec. with the viscosity cup. Sprayed one Xcoat tacky, then 15 minutes later, one wet X coat. It didn't look that shiny for the first hour, but it finally got there. It is beautifull. Tomorrow I am doing the fuselage. I just hope it will get to be as good. Thanks to Jason's advices. But I still keep thinking that this thing is quite picky. It is really sensitive to contamination, temperature, humidity, equipment, the painter, a bird flying bay, you name it.
    I thought I'd let you know, I can tell when **** happens, but it is also worth mentionning when things go well.
    Pierre

  36. #196

    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    "We have Poly Fiber tapes coming loose - I just glue a tape on top of the offending seam, then finish with Ekofill and dope."

    Thats the way I went Stewarts glue and Ekofill and then Poly Fiber paint, on my patches, seem to be sticking, couple of years will tell.
    First time handling Stewarts it feels like a stuff we use on roofs called Rapid Roof a real rubbery latex product.

  37. #197

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
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    Valdez, Alaska
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    Did my experimental with Stewarts, and had minimal issues. Plane is now assembled yet has not been outdoors...around the same time frame...some friends did there planes. Two were J 5's and one was a working PA18...by that I mean flying all winter...trapping and now guiding....it looks good still...after about three years. The two J 5's are recreational and the tops of the wings look trerible. Water blisters, and bubbling in many places...and not just a little.

    The fabric work on all planes are about the same age...4 years... All in the same weather conditions...70's on summer, and down to -50 in winter...

    my exp which has been inside has not bubbling or issues to date...

  38. #198

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    Just read all this again. A lot of info here.

    First, am I to understand that there exists an older STC using Stewarts glue and EkoFill, but allowing Butyrate? If so, did anybody capture the manual?

    Second, this stuff apparently does have a shelf life. We have two quarts of glue and almost a gallon of the gray stuff, and it is showing signs of recalcitrance! Good thing is, even when the glue starts to separate it is still stronger than the nitrate cement.

    So, since Stewarts only sells in relatively large quantities, if one wanted to do repair work to an experimental aircraft, is there a similar water- based glue out there available in pint- size?

    Tomorrow I shall try to invent a stirrer to get the solids mixed up in the older EkoFill.

    As I said over a year ago, I have not the patience nor the personality to do the top coat. But I like the initial process.

  39. #199
    Steve's Aircraft (Brian)'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    White City, Oregon
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    I spayed my second 170 rag wing a few weeks ago..... Checked it today and it still looks good.... One thing I have to say, the new Eco Poly Premium is hands down better than the old Eco Poly... Coverage, pot life, and overall spay patterns are excellent... Took me a little while to get used to the fog coat wet coat style of spraying, but it works great with this stuff...

    Brian...

  40. #200

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    Jun 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by bob turner View Post
    Just read all this again. A lot of info here.

    First, am I to understand that there exists an older STC using Stewarts glue and EkoFill, but allowing Butyrate? If so, did anybody capture the manual?

    Second, this stuff apparently does have a shelf life. We have two quarts of glue and almost a gallon of the gray stuff, and it is showing signs of recalcitrance! Good thing is, even when the glue starts to separate it is still stronger than the nitrate cement.

    So, since Stewarts only sells in relatively large quantities, if one wanted to do repair work to an experimental aircraft, is there a similar water- based glue out there available in pint- size?

    Tomorrow I shall try to invent a stirrer to get the solids mixed up in the older EkoFill.

    As I said over a year ago, I have not the patience nor the personality to do the top coat. But I like the initial process.
    Bob,

    What I think you are referring to is this:
    The Stewart Brothers bought AFS (Aircraft Finishing Systems). AFS bought the remnants of the Blue River company. Somewhere I have the old Blue River manual. The Blue River manual provides for two topcoat options; Their Flexigloss, the stuff that cracked and in some cases fell off or Butyrate dope. The manual doesn't prohibit the use of Imron etc. but recommends against it.

    Now, I can't remember exactly, but the AFS system in-so-far as approval went was the Blue River system. And the Blue River approval was an appendix to the Ceconite STC. This was back before the Polyfiber company bought Ceconite, so Ceconite were happy for it to be this way because they could sell more cloth. I think that when Polyfiber bought Ceconite, they revoked this appendix thing which was getting to be a bit of a long bow anyway as AFS had changed so much of the product. At one point I was in contact with AFS who confirmed to me that the ceconite STC was the correct STC to quote when using their products. I believe it was some time after that that Ceconite revoked the appendix. I know for a fact, but I don't have documentary evidence, that AFS were selling their product without an STC.

    It was about this point that the Stewarts got involved as they were a major distributor and had invested a lot of time in the system and it looked like the wheels were falling off at AFS. They obtained their own STC as its generally been all good and getting better since then. One of the Stewart brothers told me that the people who caused the topcoat to be included with the approvals system was Polyfiber, and he had words to the effect that Polyfiber had stirred it all up. I think this just caused a whole lot more cost and time for the Stewarts to get their STC.

    Confused?

    A friend of mine has a New Zealand CAA approval to use Butyrate over Stewart Systems on certain aircraft. So, it's doable.


    Cheers,
    Andrew.
    Last edited by MainlandCub; 09-19-2013 at 12:40 AM. Reason: Minor editing to make it make sense.

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