• If You Are Having Trouble Logging In with Your Old Username and Password, Please use this Forgot Your Password link to get re-established.
  • Hey! Be sure to login or register!

Stewart System Paint

The plane that was painted was my fathers Cherokee 140. We followed the instructions and painted in a ventilated protected environment. Unfortunately we have had two go arounds with this. I believe my father did contact stewarts but they said that it had to do with his prep. It is good to see that at least 3 people has experienced similar issues with this product.
 
I guess the question now is are you looking for a place to vent or a solution? You two are 45 miles from each other, maybe you could compare notes.
 
...... also noticed that this product was sucuptable to "blushing" which also required more sanding and re-painting..

which should have been a HUGE warning flag that you are evaporating/drying/skinning over to fast and trapping solvents..... with ANY paints or dope....
 
We have compared notes as our planes are both based at the same airport. I am just trying to find other people with similar problems as when we have contacted Stewarts they said the problem is us. It was nice to see the plane on http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum/showthread.php?6505-Oh-boy-I-m-sick-to-my-stomach/page5 with very similar peeling.

Has anyone experienced issues with getting dings in the paint and then it bubbling and peeling where the paint was knicked?
 
Hi Steve

you will note that my post says "would really like to know the cause prior to adding more material." Aeronca 65's bird was done at his place, but we both keep our planes at the same airport., not really venting, just want real answers, not run-around excuses. there is obviously something wrong that allows rain to seep thru the top coat and cause the blisters...??

steve noyes
 
HI Mike,

Stewarts told me it was because the sun was setting, and that i shouldn't have wet the floor down.
 
OK, that is what I wanted to know. Have been around here a long time and seen a couple of instances where people log on with multiple user names to create problems. Checking to see if this was the case here since both of you just joined and your IP addresses show you live so close together. The blistering on the Short wing from what I saw was due to the solvent (water) being entrapped under the surface of the dried and cured top coat. The parts were painted in a very dry heated room and then moved into a cold hanger. The blisters came out when it was very humid. It is my understanding that the moisture did not go from the outside in but from the inside out. The catalyzed polyurethane cured on the outside. This paint is the same as any solvent based catalyzed paint it is just being carried by water instead of solvents. Can you post some pictures off what you paint did? I have made every mistake known to man painting myself and would like to see what you have. My motivation is to learn more and not have these problems myself. Thanks.
 
HI Steve,

yea really.. thats what i said too.. i just cant understand how things can be for instance in the attic of the hangar for a year or more paint bubbles.jpg(getting baked) and then develope these problems. im not very computer literate, but will try to insert a pic or 2.
 

Attachments

  • paint bubbles.jpg
    paint bubbles.jpg
    427.4 KB · Views: 619
and 1 more
look close at the red stripeblisters  232 002.jpg
 

Attachments

  • blisters  232 002.jpg
    blisters 232 002.jpg
    506.1 KB · Views: 444
donsblisters003.jpgdonsblisters002.jpgdonsblisters001.jpg
 

Attachments

  • donsblisters001.jpg
    donsblisters001.jpg
    299.4 KB · Views: 235
  • donsblisters002.jpg
    donsblisters002.jpg
    219.3 KB · Views: 259
  • donsblisters003.jpg
    donsblisters003.jpg
    255.8 KB · Views: 265
Steve Noyes
I also have no axe to grind and want to learn the issue.

Are you working with a booth or were they shot in your open shop?

The material prep underneath in looking for a contamination issue was it subjected to something and was it the entire Stewart System prep through finish or was it over another product. What was the temp and did the product sit inside at 65*F for a few days and by any chance knowing you are at a very humid part of the country with shoreline all around you what was the RH when you painted.

How old was your product as I am starting to worry about the finish paint for Jeff Campbells T Craft as we are over a year old on the paint I bought.

Thanks Steve for your insight.
John
 
I had some trouble too, and by trial and error together with Jason's guidance, I found that this material has to be put on in VERY thin coats and allowed to dry and flow prior to the next coat. Otherwise blushing and bubbling and lifting occurred for me. Another mistake I made was slightly over-thinning to get better flow-out. Not by much, but it definitely did not work and was a bad idea. I got blushing and bubbling, and had to re-do.

So what I've figured out is to go for the finest-possible atomization, thin to well within the recommended cup times, stir very thoroughly, apply in thin coats, and wait plenty before recoating. I found that getting in a hurry to re-coat, or putting on a heavy coat were my worst problems.

I haven't put anything out in the rain for more than a few hours yet, and sure hope I don't run into problems when I do.

I have a relatively inexpensive gun, and it definitely does not atomize as finely as the sample Jason sent me showed. I only have the wings left to paint, but I might well invest in a better gun. Gonna stop by the auto paint store on the way home today and see what they say.
 
Last edited:
I just shot my first wing with Stewart paint. It was so hard for me to shoot the paint the way they want it done. I wanted to spray like I spray everything else, looking into the glare to gauge the amount and speed. It was very hard for me to un-learn how I have done it for years.
 
Hi John, (flying miss daisy)

i am working in a booth, i am also working on certificated aircraft, so yes, its the stewart system start to finish per the STC. as for temp, yes, everything was above 65', and was done on a nice clear day, free of visible moisture. my product was new. the product i have (we stopped working on the champ until we figure out what is happening) is stored in a place where it cannot freeze, and was purchased last fall. your not too far away, fly or drive to Plum Island (2B2)and see for yourself.

steve noyes
 
I was picturing something way different. Seen similar problem when stripper wasn't cleaned out of lap joints. I take it the entire surface is not doing this? I would think bad paint it would all be peeling. I wonder how thick the paint was applied and how long between coats? How long was the surface kept at constant temperature after painting? What kind of primer? How long after primed was it painted. How about a chronological run down.
 
Hi all...
Since your on the topic, I have a question. I ordered my Stewart system supplies last year at Oshkosh thinking I'd have it all used up by this spring. Stuff happened and it looks like I'll be well into the fall or even next spring before I get finished with my painting. The can says "use within 1 year" and I've read at least once here to use "fresh" product.
Anyone ever used 1 or 1-1/2 year old Stewart's paint?
I have it stored at 65 -70 deg.

Al
 
Don't mess around and get the gun they recommend , Finish Line III. $125 or so, 1.3 tip is all you need.
 
just a side note/thought,

when using some air compressor supplied HVLP guns(long time ago for me) you cannot use the small quick connects in line(knocks down the flow).... just a thought to check....

actually would be a good experiment if you are having issues to test, making sure your gun is truly getting the supply flow it needs while operating, through connectors, hoses, regulators, dryers.....
 
Don't mess around and get the gun they recommend , Finish Line III. $125 or so, 1.3 tip is all you need.

I am not kidding...Still using the Wagner! The only issues have been me rushing things... Here is what I do...
1) 12 oz paint...4 oz Cat...add distilled H2O in til viscosity cup runs @ 21 seconds... ( approx 4 oz.) ( Using Wagner vis Cup.)
2) Put product in Wagner Control Sprayer.
3) Turn volume WAY down...lightly mist/coat surface...start timer...about 8-9 minutes later ( using the tacky method)...repeat process...start the time...turn up the air a bit...
4) little heavier mist...DO NOT over DO IT...Always start timer...
5)Slowly increase air/flow...Repeat until you get the sheen you want...

Do not Put toooooo much product on...this is when I have experienced the bubbles...Also I have had better results when I let the surface dry vertical...

Well...been following this thread...and since I am on Spring Break I am working on my project. Completed my wings, and tail surfaces...been hanging in my shop...one for over a year,..the other 8 months...I do not always heat my shop...and the insides have seen -60 this winter...Checked them today...still not issues..

I wish I had a spray booth...that would improve my results..but I have to remind myself...This is a go plane....not a show plane...

I am still happy with my results....Matter of fact...sprayed the interior this morning...hope to spray the fuse exterior Thursday if I stay on task!:???:

I am no expert...just having fun...building a plane with my girls...
 

I encountered some very similar looking problems on metal. By trial and error, I figured out that I'd put the paint on too thick, and too soon between coats. I found that just misting it on and waiting plenty long between coats it didn't happen. Fortunately, in my case it was a very small area. I'm far from expert and hardly a "real" painter, but for me, so far, those seem to be the big factors in success or lack of success.

I stopped at the auto body supply store today and looked at a Sato gun. Yikes - $595!!! Nope, that isn't a typo - - -
 
Bugs, did you shoot your pieces at home? It was already to color when you built your hangar, yes - no? Did you - how did you heat your spray area in this arctic north during the winter?...

I put a paint booth up in my hangar and got the temp to 70-75 for top coat. I did all the fabric work in there. I made sure I had all "hi-flo" fittings in my lines and guns and with one hi-flo quick connect. Get those at Harbor Freight.

How's this shine?

IMG_0317.JPG
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0317.JPG
    IMG_0317.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 273
Last edited:
595? Wow, it has really come down. Was 895 a couple of years ago when I checked. Thats good. That seems to be the best gun.

Bill
 
I was hoping Jason would chime in here...I'm curious to see what he's got to say..
From what I can see, the Cherokee has bubbles mostly starting from rivet heads,valleys, and seams.... hmmmm. That always screams a problem with the prep in my book. The paint coming loose in the valleys of the surfaces is most likely a prep problem as well. If you look at samples of Stewart's Polyurethane that aren't attached to a substrate of some sort, you'll notice right away that it's the most flexible paint you can find! That is a good thing, but also demands that you have a good adhesion, both tooth and chemical to the substrate, as a flexible paint wont help itself stay formed to something as easily as a more rigid paint when dried.
The other bubbles look like solvent popping, from what I can see. Like has been said, it has to go on very light and let dry longer than more common solvent borne paints. It's also more picky on the mixing than the more common solvent borne paints. Like I said before, not difficult, just different! I've "been there, done that" and have some results just like this, hanging on the wall, to remind me. As soon as that underlying "gas" gets trapped, it starts lifting the skinned over topcoat that you've just applied (which hasn't bonded to the underlying coat all the way yet), and when it finally "pops" through the topcoat, you've now got a path for moisture to get under the topcoat.
One day we had some tail surfaces laying in the shop, drying, and one of the guys was on the other side of the hangar (60x60), and squirted a pulley with some tri-flow. The sun was shining and you could watch a little cloud of tri-flow migrate ALL the way across the shop and head right to those surfaces, just like a magnet!! Needless to say, we had a contamination problem with them when we went to paint them.... and from then out, nothing comes out of the paint booth until it's topcoated and dried. I was amazed that it took such a small amount and that it had travelled so far! It explained alot of previous problems I'd had too!
One of the things that I don't see mentioned much is airflow over or through the painting area. A booth that has no airflow isn't going to do you much good for getting the finish to gas out. It doesn't have to be a hurricane, but it definately needs some airflow!
Like I said, this is my 2 cents worth, and worth what you paid. Sorry to hear you both had trouble with the product. I've used it for years and love it!!
John
 
Last edited:
Quick Stewarts waterborne story.

Last night I was priming some metal parts with Stewarts. Using a friends really super nice 10-light professional booth. I was misting pretty lightly and did all my parts. He was watching from the window.

After I was done. He said, "I don't like the way you were painting." He walked in grabbed my gun and did the lower cowl over and the top cowl. He had huge runs IMMEDIATELY down the whole part.

We walked out. Checked out the parts after dry. He was sick. He said all my parts were perfect, and we have to strip and redo the cowls that he did. Lesson learned for him. This is a different animal. His planes in Stits are show quality, he wasn't ready for the different type of painting.

I'm not upset at my un-named friend. I'm not upset at the product. It works really well for me. It happened just like every single person I've heard for the last two years. If you've painted solvent and are good at it. You have some unlearning to do with this system. It's not a bad system, actually it's quite impressive, you just have to learn a new spray technique. Maybe spraying blind folded would help? I keep hearing solvent guys are looking for a wet look behind the gun, while this "water" system looks dull and dry, then later settles into a "wet look."

Now for a little do-over. I'm really appreciative that my generous friend is letting me use his booth and equipment. He about passed out at the gun clean up and walking around in the booth with no smell. He couldn't say enough nice things about it.

Cheers.
 
I've been following this thread from the beginning and it is a good one. I would not be surprised if Poly Fiber comes out with their own system to compete with the Stewarts. The "old timers" I talk to would not even consider using the Stewarts. I think Cal said it best in that you have to be willing to re learn your skills. I'm not going to armchair quarterback the Cherokee problem. I think it is just sound all around general advise if you choose to use this topcoat system.

I have heard guys say that they start their covering inside the booth and don't take the parts out until it is completely painted and cured because of contamination. What I want to know is that with guys that are building their own booth out of wood frame lined with heavy mil plastic, They leave their parts in there for an extended period of time, isn't there a chance of dust coming in while they are going in and out during the covering process? How do you keep the dust out?
 
Back
Top