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Stewart System Paint

I just complete a PA-11 replica using Stuart system, using brushes and foam rollers. Satisfactory job but lots of work.

Warning: If you use auto gas when, for the first time, you put fuel in your tanks and if there is a fuel leak, it will disolve the EkoFill and the top coat will fall off where fuel drops hit the inside of fuselage or wings. I talked to the Stuart experts and this fact is known to them. I live in Eastern Canada.
 
.. fuel in your tanks and if there is a fuel leak, it will disolve the EkoFill and the top coat will fall off where fuel drops hit the inside of fuselage or wings....

I thought that's shown on the Instruction DVD that you are supposed to spray insides of tank bay fabric with the top coats to seal them to prevent this????
 
I'm a rookie but after painting over half my airplane I'm finally getting my hands around Stewart Systems top coat. What took me too long to learn:

- Paint and cataylst, stir throughly THEN the water! If not, cottage cheese.
- Never wash your parts with water or cleaner and then paint. Fisheye!
- Better a lot thicker mix then a little thin. Paint runs away from seems, runs and takes a 1,000 coats to cover.
- I found it better to mix a little thicker than instructed and use whatever air pressure it takes to spray nicely. Could be my gun.
- Immediately after spraying on fabric it will have orange peel. The paint levels and tightens as it drys.

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Regarding Auto fuel and leaks

Auto fuel affects dope and polyfiber the same way it just take a little bit more saturation to cause a defect. Inconsequential splashed auto fuel or a small spill that does not sit around and soak into the back side of the fabric does does not cause problems. It's the heavy flowing saturating constant leaks that soak deep into the fabric that cause finish failures. 100LL has not show to have any effect. MOGAS that you used to be able to get from airports has not shown to have any effect. It's the additive packages that go into the car gas for hwy use that mess up paint jobs. All the solvents and cleaners in auto fuel that are designed to keep your cars fuel system clean are not good for paints. A pre-cover inspection should include a fuel system pressure test. Do not use auto fuel to do this regardless of what covering system you plan on using. Stewart Systems EkoPoly is solvent resistant and auto fuel from the out side does not effect the paint. Technically I believe auto fuel STC's are for MOGAS not fuel designed for hwy use, I could be wrong on that one though.

Here is a short video I made today with an iPhone showing my technique spraying EkoPoly with my SATA 3000B gun. It goes over what to look for when applying the paint. My application technique is to have the gun working at it's best possible atomization and only make small changes when opening the fluid needle between coats. I control the amount of paint applied by speed. overlap, and distance from the work surface. If you learn how to make your paint gun work at it's optimum performance then you will have a much better paint job. Our instructions are only guidelines of where to start. Always research and practice first before painting airplane parts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uWMsSmW1K4


Jason
 
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The auto body shops are going water born and they are putting in circulating fans to evaporate the water not dry the paint like heat does.
 
I have just completed my wing using all of the Stewart's system products and process, and it all went very well including the paint.

Some things I've learned
1) Using a mid grade paint brush instead of the super cheap ones will aerate the glue much less
2) I will not use the batting or felt on the leading edge agian, I don't feel it looks as nice and it just adds weight, but it can cover up some sheet metal issues.
3) you must have a wing rotisserie, don't even start until you build or purchase one
4) An inline air dryer is a must for the top coat system after I installed this the paint application went great
5) I found sanding after the last two coats of ekofill works the best, and keeps it as this as possible. Start with 400 and finishing with 600.


Questions
Has anyone every used the white ekofill and then just cleared over it, so you can save some weight I feel like it would save 1 maybe two coats of the top coat paint
Does Cub crafters do this with the grey on there light weight paint scheme on the Carbon Cub

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Fob job - my patches are minor alterations. I glue a small patch right over the crack with Stewarts, then iron the wrinkles out, then erase the glue outside the patch area, and brush on Ekofill. Contrary to instructions, I wet-sand. The finish coat is usually colored butyrate. I have done this over Stits, dope, Aerothane, and unknown. I have never had adverse results.
 
I have covered my Sport Trainer using Stewart System, using good quality foam rollers. Hardly any bubles to remove with a brush. This was done a year and a half ago and the finish is satisfactory to good.

I followed these instructions ( 3 paint for 1 catalist and 80% of the calalist for water by volume). Mix well paint and calalist and then add slowly the water. The mix is good for about an hour at around 70F. Spread the paint with the roller in all directions to ensure a good coverage and then finish with the roller in only one direction. Watch for bubles if any, use brush to remove them and continue. Keep an eye for runs (usually not a problem). The first few coats are light. wait until the paint is slightly sticky but no paint on finger, and put another coat the same way. Around 5-6 total. The last coat, more paint on the roller. Good lighting is very important to ensure proper coverage. With EKOFILL, I used foam brushes, starting with very light coats . Sand with 320 grit paper (dry) after 3-4 coats and before final color paint. Good luck with your project
 
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Mongo, I can't imagine you'd really gain anything going with clear... what do ya think they use for the base for all the color coats?? I'd just go with some white and love it!
John
 
I know that if I had used white ecocoat for the final two coats, I would have needed one coat less of white top coat, I used the recommended 4 coats. I feel with clear I would only use two coats of top coat clear. That would save at least 3 quarts per plane and that around 8lbs.....
I'm not looking for a show plane just a smooth and light paint job.


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You would be lighter using the white paint than clear coating over white primer. The lightest combination would be a silver colored paint job

2 brushed coats of EkoFill to seal the weave, 1 sprayed coat for build up, 1.5 x-coats of Metallic silver paint. You would have full UV protection with a durable finish and be very light. This would save 2 x-coats of product over the normal procedure. It may save about 10-12lbs total on a cub sized airplane.

A square foot of medium fabric normally weighs about .75 to .8 oz with a 2 inch tape across it and 3 x-coats of primer and 2 x-coats of color.

if you cut out 2 x-coats of paint you might get down to .6 oz per square foot.

figure about 90 square yards of fabric per plane = 810 square feet

medium weight 102-3 ceconite is 3.2 oz per yard = .36 oz per square foot

Our metallic silver paint is mostly clear resin with a tiny bit of aluminum, black tint, and mica. It covers extremely well and blocks sunlight extremely well and is very easy to spray and get full color saturation with a minimum of coats.

Our paint is normally dries to about the thickness of a human hair ( 2 mil ) so it's pretty darn light to begin with. A cub should gain about 45 lbs covered and painted with our products. That's light for a cover job and paint job.


Jason
 
Good, then we will all have the same colored airplanes! This will be nice when you bust a hole in the fabric and your buddy has Stewarts Silver on tap. When we're all dead and or slurpin apple sauce and they look back on the roaring 20teens, they'll get nostalgic for that silver. There will be nostalgic metal signs made...It will be the yellow of our time.
Er something.
 
I have an aircraft shop in Ontario - we work on pretty well anything that go on floats - lots of Cubs including building a 300 HP Northstar Cub. We have painted airplanes for over 20 years - both metal and fabric - with most "systems". We recently painted a new fabric job with the stewart system - we had alot of the problems talked about here - orange peel, solvent popping, etc - we had to paint most things twice and some as many as 4 times (still didn't turn out great). I am not here to complain but just so the others are not seen to be sh*t disturbing - we have painted airplanes for many years and we couldn't make it work - we watched the DVD over and over again and talked to the Canadian Distrubutor and the head office - we are not amateur aircraft painters but maybe that is the problem!
Doug Ronan
 
A really light and straight forward system is silver butyrate over the ecofil. Everything about Stewarts up to and including the ecofil is a breeze and really superior to anything else on the market. Spraying butyrate on top is sort of like the best of both worlds. I do wish Stewarts would put the butyrate top coat option back on the STC.

Andrew.
 
It always amazes me when so many people breeze right through the topcoat and some just fight it all the way.... if it was a product problem, I'd think it would happen to everyone.
 
I used the Stewart's System on my PA-12. It's been six months since spraying color on my tail feathers, and the elevators are now suddenly forming bubbles. HOWEVER - I'm blaming my application, because I did the elevators and stabilizers at the same time, and the stabilizers are not bubbling. I am blaming it on too much paint per coat, put on too fast. I remember having trouble with orange peel on the elevators, so laying the paint on kinda heavy (could get away with it because they were lying flat). It is disconcerting, however, that the problem would manifest months after the application - that seems really strange.

I'm convinced that the Stewart System can give superb results, but that the gun and air supply setup MUST provide excellent atomization for success. I used a fairly inexpensive (~$100) gun, and it just did not lay down the fine droplets that were evident on the samples Jason sent me. Jason has said over and over, that a good gun and good air supply are mandatory. From my own experience of trying to "get by" with the gun I already had, I agree. This material simply doesn't wet out like solvent based coatings tend to, and cannot be flooded - it MUST be laid on in thin, uniform layers with very small (highly atomized) droplets of paint. At least that's my experience. To quote Bob Turner, "opinion"!
 
I didn't have a big enough compressor so I rented a gas powered unit that was supposed to be 20cfm at 90 psi, and I can say it wasn't quite enough.

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It's the paint gun that needs the air, not the paint. If your equipment is not properly set up from the compressor to the gun then you'll be sacrificing performance of the paint gun. I have spoken with a few guys that swear everything is as it should and it's just not atomizing like it should. I give them a few simple instructions on how to set up the air supply and test the gun and that usually fixes the problems.

Jason
 
didn't have the best gun,didn't have the best air,didn't have the right temp's,didn't have the best booth,cut two coats out ,against jason's recommendations but if ya do as they suggest it comes out as advertized!!!
if ya don't like it,just go back to the other methods and smell the rose's,maybe the ones your loved ones lay on ya'r grave!!!

jr.:LeahHarp2:
 
Iam just getting started building my plane so I got a ways to go before I paint. Just woundering has any one tried a airless sprayer like the ones painters use for fine finish wood work. To get it to atomiz Iam not talking about the wagner sprayers but the high dollar sprayers with high preasures. Just woundering it is what I use for my wood work with lacquer finish.
 
As a pure aside it appears the folks with the most painting experience have the most issues. It appears the coats are too heavy.
John
 
Had my issues with the system when I got to the top coat and I've discussed them on this web site. I think the worst thing you can do is apply too much too fast, then you cause alot of extra re-work when you end up with solvent pop.
Anything I experienced that may have been a product issue was quickly taken care of by Jason and the people at Stewart's. Support is second to none!
Over all, I would use the product again without question, and I'm confident I could breeze through the top coat free of problems.
Advise: Just be patient and apply as directed. If it seems like it's taking too long to tack up....wait for it! It will get there. I still feel it may be more prone to pop than other paints I've used, so don't rush it. Also, find some information on gun set up, the video instructions will get you close but you can fine tune it from there if you know what to look for.

Just my thoughts.
 
So here's a question for you all before I go pioneering by myself. Has anyone tried different topcoats over Ekofill? Ranthane, Aerothane, or even PPG?

I did some tail feathers a few years ago. Everything was by the book and the process went perfect. A month ago I noticed some minor flaking. Figured I maybe should have put a tape in that spot, no big deal. Today I look and there are more spots where the paint is peeling off, even on top of tapes. The plane hasn't even been flown in over a year. The Ekopoly just let go from the Ekofill. As I said, everything was done by the book. No peeling, bubbling or any other defects for over two years before it failed. I'm supposed to be doing the fuselage this spring and already I'm going to have to recover parts I did only a few years ago. Dope is looking good right now.

So now I have a bunch of parts sitting here, done through the Ekofill and needing a top coat. No way am I trusting Ekopoly. If there's about a 50% chance of it failing, as this and other threads show, I might as well try something different. I keep coming across posts that say Ekopoly uses a mechanical bond, while solvent based paints use a chemical bond. Right now I'm leaning towards Ranthane in case I decide to go with Polyfiber for other parts. It's really a shame because the rest of the Stewart system is top notch.
 
..... I keep coming across posts that say Ekopoly uses a mechanical bond, while solvent based paints use a chemical bond. .....

no,

dope uses chemical bond... it called cohesion... paints and urethanes are by adhesion......

but any time you get a 'solvent entrapment' in anything, the bond from the top coat/or between coats to the lower layer is not there over the whole surface, because it blocked/bonds to the entrapped item.....
 
I did some tail feathers a few years ago. Everything was by the book and the process went perfect. A month ago I noticed some minor flaking. Figured I maybe should have put a tape in that spot, no big deal. Today I look and there are more spots where the paint is peeling off, even on top of tapes. The plane hasn't even been flown in over a year. The Ekopoly just let go from the Ekofill. As I said, everything was done by the book. No peeling, bubbling or any other defects for over two years before it failed. I'm supposed to be doing the fuselage this spring and already I'm going to have to recover parts I did only a few years ago. Dope is looking good right now.

So now I have a bunch of parts sitting here, done through the Ekofill and needing a top coat. No way am I trusting Ekopoly. If there's about a 50% chance of it failing, as this and other threads show, I might as well try something different. I keep coming across posts that say Ekopoly uses a mechanical bond, while solvent based paints use a chemical bond. Right now I'm leaning towards Ranthane in case I decide to go with Polyfiber for other parts. It's really a shame because the rest of the Stewart system is top notch.

I haven't seen any peeling issues with Stewarts top coat. Have seeen the bubbling and orange peel. What did Stewarts say about the peeling when you discussed it with them?
 
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