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Stewart System Paint

Well I don't really care what you believe I was just giving him a recommendation because if he has any problems with the paint laying down correctly it would be better to find it now than after he has the plane together. That is all. I wasn't saying anything else Steve just based on my experience with the product I would have liked to have found the problems prior to putting the plane back together so I could have repainted it.

Aeronca65ca - DQ'd
 
.... why does nobody complain about how long it takes them to learn how to be a good welder but if the paint job goes south on the first or second attempt its the end of the world?...
Jason

great analogy....

speaking of welding... my new welders rules are much different than how i learned 20+ years ago... some opposite!
just because i could do it right on the old machines don't mean thats the right way with these new machines!!!
 
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me, me, me, me, I wanna be DQ'ed.
 

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We don't want to hijack the thread Dave, we'll deal with you later on the JC thread.
 
I think some ass is hanging out in that photo.

I also agree with Lodi Dave......some ass spends alot of time in photoshop.

Also, some Aeronca guy is a bit deficient in the respect department. Thereby.....DQ'ed unless he can make a sufficient apology!
 
On a last (?) comment, I just learned from Jason that you shouldn't use plastic to mask off over Stewart paint (any catylized paint). Apparently this is common knowledge but I didn't know. On my wings which I painted and put in a cradle, I draped plastic over them and it got up against the 2 day old paint in some places and stuck (bonded). When I noticed it a month later and removed it there was a cloudy area on the paint that you could see but not feel. I'm guessing that it won't buff out. So...no plastic! Craig
 
Snowy...you serious.my wings have been covered with 3 mil vis for months...never read that anywhere? fuse is also covered in plastic now...painted it a week or two ago...
 
On a last (?) comment, I just learned from Jason that you shouldn't use plastic to mask off over Stewart paint (any catylized paint). Apparently this is common knowledge but I didn't know. On my wings which I painted and put in a cradle, I draped plastic over them and it got up against the 2 day old paint in some places and stuck (bonded). When I noticed it a month later and removed it there was a cloudy area on the paint that you could see but not feel. I'm guessing that it won't buff out. So...no plastic! Craig

back when I started out learning, it is quite sad to go to assemble your project and find all those pieces you finished, and stacked touching each other have now bonded themselves together where they touched, and it pulls off right down to raw fabric......(this was durathane, like the old superflite)

I am also leery on plastic,(will imprint/pattern where it touches if left long) or any thing on fresh paint, since most polyurethanes are still curing and getting all their good traits for like a month....(even longer if you shoot in cold area, or reused paint you put in freezer)
 
The Stewart manual sez do not mask with plastic, in the masking for trim section. It also sez to allow at least 24 hours from painting to putting tape on. I got away with 18 hours, so was able to finish painting my wings on Sunday - - -
 
Nope. I wasn't kidding. Apparently that info is not in the viseos. I don't have a manual. Jason told me that it is "common knowledge". Wasn't to me. Luckily I just have several small places on the top of one wing where it tried to bond. It looks kind of milky and you can't feel it. I wonder if it will buff out. J5Ron, I hope you luck out and I'd get that plastic off there ASAP.




















Apparently
 
I don't know how plastic does what it does, but it's not good. I taped a 5 year cured wing to do some touch up on the leading edge, and there were milky marks where the plastic touched the wing. WAS NOT Stewarts, but I learned my plastic lesson. Not cool. Yep, I've heard common knowledge. Wasn't to me at the time. Paper now.
 
I would love a tips n tricks video from Stewarts. Probably not their responsibility, but I watched the vids a few times and still managed to "paint" myself into corners with questions.

Ie.
Covering difficult profiles
Alternate fuel tank bay solutions - I've heard cover, paint, cutout and cutout, tape, paint
How to handle top wing pulley
How to double wrap leading edge - two piece your wing - main, then full aileron out to wing tip. Etc.
... And many others I can't remember.
 
With new paint (especially, but even paint that's not quite so new) there are fumes exiting. This is called "gassing out", and if you cover that with plastic, they can't escape....so they are trapped and react with the surface they're covering. Paper wont do that, as it "breathes" a little. It doesn't matter what brand of paint, but some take a bit longer to completely "gas out" than others. If you really want results, roll them out into the sunshine while still covered with the plastic.....
 
The manual is online, on the Stewart's website. And the back portion of it is Tips n Tricks - not part of the "official, approved" document, is what I'm guessing - -
 
Mike,

Cal is non-certified!

Jason: bad analogy I think... I can cover my gorilla weld(strong but(t) ugly) with paint, but try covering paint with a weld!!!!!!

Just run your weld through the swamp, and it is out of sight and hidden in dirt...

But put your wing tip through the brush to hide the ONLY dust flake on the plane:peeper and all you get are more imperfections!:nutz:

So maybe, the solution is to hire a profesional... er, perfesional... um xpert and not be so critical!:lol::rant:
 
Hey George, mike's comment was not directed at me... I have two manuals and I use them, with notes in them too. And, I carry them on trips for reference and planning.




The manual is online, on the Stewart's website. And the back portion of it is Tips n Tricks - not part of the "official, approved" document, is what I'm guessing - -


Tips n tricks are not in the printed manual that I'm looking at. Online they are mostly hints to oil the inside of your frame. The Stewarts vids are outstanding, I just was able to come up with some Q's not covered and learned the hard way. The resin I suggested it as tips n tricks are the methods would not be stc required just a good idea.

Another suggestion for tips n tricks is a quick primer on staggering knot and rib lacing. I got it now, but reviewed it on YouTube from someone else. God bless YouTube.
 
Paint is a nightmare to use

I am in the process of painting aluminum spars from a boat. Have always used traditional marine solvent based polyurethanes. Thought I would give the Stewarts Systems products a try due to the water based low VOC benefits and the great durability I have read about. Boy what a huge mistake. I started spraying the product with a turbine driven HVLP system as I don't want to buy all new equipment just to use this product, paint runs like crazy. The runs do not cure and are impossible to knock down smoothly with sandpaper. I am only painting a 13 foot boom and it took me hours of hand sanding just to get the primer coat fair enough to consider top coating. I mixed the paint by volume, don't want to and never have had to buy a digital scale to weigh any paint I have ever worked with in the past. Followed the instructions to the letter as the spar is oval shaped have to turn it during the spraying process and once again runs all over. Once again after hours of hand sanding to try and get the surface fair I am completely gun shy of ever spraying the paint again. I attempted to roll the spar with a high quality foam pad, this time the result was horrible orange peel.

The following are my observations about this paint.

1 It is very finicky and unless you have absolutely perfect conditions and the exact reccomended equipment you will end up with poor results.

2 Very expensive, I have spent almost $300.00 to paint a 13' x 4" boom and I still have to re-do the job.

3 Poor coverage, after multiple coats primer is still showing through top coat.

4 Judging by all the problems I have read about other people trying to apply Stewarts Systems paint, my instincts are that the bugs are not worked out of their water delivered finishes. Will not be using these products again in the future.
 
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I have seen orange peel on Stits, factory cars, various 2-part solvent paints. The turbine gun is the first mistake I see. That is not following directions to "letter". Most folks I see who have the most trouble with Stewarts paint are the experienced solvent paint dudes. Time to learn a new process and forget old habits. Sorry you had trouble. I would talk to Jason for advice.
 
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I'll second what Buggs66 said!!! You DID NOT follow the directions...from what I read, you refuse to follow any of them to the letter.. amazingly enough, having used this system since the 90's, and having taught people how to use it since then... the ones that have problems are the ones that refuse to realize they don't know how to apply it! Too bad you have to come on with your first post and slam a product that you refuse to use properly. It's a great product for people who choose to use it properly.
John
 
As I said in the original post with the exception of using my turbine HVLP system and mixing by volume (Described in the instructions) I did follow the directions. I shouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a compressor driven system and Delvillbiss gun to shoot a particular paint. Considering I have been able to fine tune the turbine to get excellent results with other products, I thought that I would be able to do the same with the Stewarts, (Case in point the post about using a Wagner sprayer).

I just finished rolling the finish on for what ammounts to the eighth attempt with the highest quality foam roller and a technique that has yielded superior results in the past with other products, once again more orange peel. The problem is the paint has poor flow out and leveling properties as well as horrible covering characteristics, primer is still showing through, (Coverage has nothing to do with technique).

As far as slamming the Stewarts Systems products when you have invested as much money and time as I have for such poor results, I feel ripped off. I maintain my position that this paint and primer is very finicky to apply in all but a perfect and ideal conditions, (How often is the average person going to be able to obtain that).
 
As I said in the original post with the exception of using my turbine HVLP system and mixing by volume (Described in the instructions) I did follow the directions. I shouldn't have to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a compressor driven system and Delvillbiss gun to shoot a particular paint. Considering I have been able to fine tune the turbine to get excellent results with other products, I thought that I would be able to do the same with the Stewarts, (Case in point the post about using a Wagner sprayer).

I just finished rolling the finish on for what ammounts to the eighth attempt with the highest quality foam roller and a technique that has yielded superior results in the past with other products, once again more orange peel. The problem is the paint has poor flow out and leveling properties as well as horrible covering characteristics, primer is still showing through, (Coverage has nothing to do with technique).

As far as slamming the Stewarts Systems products when you have invested as much money and time as I have for such poor results, I feel ripped off. I maintain my position that this paint and primer is very finicky to apply in all but a perfect and ideal conditions, (How often is the average person going to be able to obtain that).

simply amazing....

you once again refuse follow the directions, and are baffled that it does not work!!!!!

I doubt anyone will be able to ever help you.... since you will not follow the basic directions....
 
1/ You need to use a light colored primer to get the top coat coverage.
2/ What was the temperature when you were doing the application? It must be 70 degrees minimum, hotter is better. Then you will get the flow out. Otherwise it will be as you describe.
 
Well, I bought the $160 gun they reccomend and used my Lowe's air compressor. I have little or no paint exp. I followed the directions to the letter and it might have been 70 degrees in my booth but I doubt it. I had amazing results, not perfect but very nice. Technique has everything to do with coverage. Before I broke my wing into "10 minute paintable" areas I went longer than ten minutes and had some minor peel. Using a watch fixed this. Clean up was easy, customer service was great and I saved money over what I would have spent had I used PPG. I'll use it again. My .02 Craig
 
I can't find the dang .pdf file I was reading about this, but it would appear that solvent (water) entrapment can be prevented by ensuring proper air circulation within the paint booth, to allow drying of the water before the paint starts to skin over....
 
Sort of a change of subject, but worth the comment. I have been doing minor repairs using Stewarts glue and Ekofill. I always have a test panel handy, and the other day glued one tape with Super Seam Cement, another with Stewarts. The difference in pull strength is noticeable. Stewarts won hands-down. Then I took the pulled Stewarts tape, and ironed it back on an area of dried glue, and pulled it immediately. Double the strength of the plain old dried overnight Stewarts.

The Ekofill seems to sand better than the butyrate silver. I get my pinked edges disappearing rather quickly.

I have not the personality nor the equipment to spray the finish coats, but my buddies are laying in the factory spec gun and compressor, and both do have the personalities to precisely measure materials and time. I will be watching with a Sam Adams in hand, and will report.

'Till then, my patches have all survived with solvent based spot-finish.
 
I can't find the dang .pdf file I was reading about this, but it would appear that solvent (water) entrapment can be prevented by ensuring proper air circulation within the paint booth, to allow drying of the water before the paint starts to skin over....

have not tried it yet..(but have some now to play with ;-) ).......

but I was thinking just the opposite..... to much airflow/heat will skin a paint.... which is what I use with dopes/normal paint when I have an OH SH1T moment that's about to sag or run... I hit it with just air.....

but like I said, never tried yet.. just thinking out loud....

good jason question!
 
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