Where the original header tanks aluminum or stainless steel?
Have one leaking and would like to re-solder, any idea how Piper did this originally?
Where the original header tanks aluminum or stainless steel?
Have one leaking and would like to re-solder, any idea how Piper did this originally?
Originals were aluminum. Very thin and they were soldered together. F. Atlee Dodge and Univair make heavy duty header tanks that are much safer in my opinion.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Replace the tank! Last thing you need is fuel dripping on your feet. As Steve says, the originals were not that sturdy. Atlee's are MUCH better quality.
MTV
I thought originals were steel/stainless & soldered, or did they have diffrent ones?Originally Posted by Steve Pierce
atlees alum and welded..
I always replace with the heavy duty also...
The aluminum one weighs less then 1 lb, the steel one must be over 5 - 6lb or more, when I wrecked my pa11 the aluminum tank folded in half and never leaked a drop, so use the heavy safe one and send me your unsafe aluminum one so I can keep it lite when I rebuild it.
Glenn
My 77 SC still has the original system including factory header tanks. I can see the rear tank and get to it fairly easily (compared to most everything else they stuffed in there) and with a mirror I can 'see' the front tank... my question is just how big a job is it to replace the front header tank?
"Illegitimis non carborundum"
Fire up a torch and it will come out real easy..
Kirby, its not that bad, easier if you remove the front stick and seat and put some cushions down to lay on. The Atlee Dodge tanks are maybe twice as heavy but don't have the soldered seam and WAY safer in my opinion. I've had several piper tanks leak. I have several piper tanks but I hate to even give them to anyone they are such a POS. About like the Gascolater piper installed!!!!!!! Dangerous Junk!!!!!
Dave
I recently changed to a new Atlee's tank. Weight difference is negligible. Tried to get the old one silver soldered, they made such a mess of it I tossed it, of course it was half a mess when they started. Atlee's is a much sturdier tank.
Check used Atlee's at Cub Crafters if you're so inclined. A lot of people are scrapping their headers for the headerless system. Thus, there are some used headers - even heavy duty - that are in good shape out there.
"If you put the Federal Government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand." - Milton Friedman
I urgently encourage everybody if possible to change the old header tanks to heavy duty once. It is really heavily annoying in a crash to have all the fuel all over your feet, the floor etc. and a hot glowing manifold in front of you. That happened to me 1995. It was absolutely “funny”.
C-M
The wandering raven
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Now I see why you guy's are alway's puzzeled that your SC weighs over 1200lbs empty, 5/8 forks, HD struts, HD extended gear add this add that, and you can't figure out how that lowly J3/pa11 at 90 hp blows your doors off in a TO contest, don't forget to wear your steel toed boots in case you drop your tailwheel on your foot, remember, every ton starts with the first pound. Nothing wrong with the alum tank, or the 7/16 strut forks, hell my J4 has 3/8 forks and they've worked fine for 70 years. We've seen the one ton Cub come and go, now it's the 2300lb Cub, add some more HD stuff and it won't be long before you have the two ton Cub, I like lite power to weight, add more to the Cub and it becomes a dud.
Glenn
When I rebuilt my cub I could not pull the original header tanks out fast enough. For your piece of mind I would recommend installing the Atlee header tanks.
It gives you an element of safety thats justifies the slight increase in weight. IMHO
Cub_Driver
You missed a few... shoulder harness, metal prop, 6" wheels, ceconite, x-brace...
Cars did not have seatbelts in 1940, they are heavier also.
I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
Like everything in aviation, it is a compromise.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Are those header tanks made out of the same stuff that the original soldered together PA12 gas tanks are made of ???? Someone told me the stuff is called "turn plate" and can ONLY be soldered. Just curious as I've seen a lot of leaky PA12 gas tanks.
It's Terne Plate in the 12 tanks. And, you're right-they can only be silver soldered I believe. And they generally leak as often as not.
MTV
Thanks, Mike , Do you happen to know the "recipe" used for making the terne plate. A friend told me it contains lead. Any attempt to weld will only cause it to crack along side the weld.
http://www.howardhallfarm.com/ternetin.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terne
.
Wow---this site really knows how to find the answers. Thank You. So it appears that solder; not silver solder is the fix. Of coarse there are different ratios of tin and lead in different solders.
I have a few real good books 100+ years old with all the formulas from when you made your own solders....Wow---this site really knows how to find the answers. Thank You. So it appears that solder; not silver solder is the fix. Of coarse there are different ratios of tin and lead in different solders.
The one book even tells how many inches of ice it takes for your cavalry to cross....
Well? how many?
I don't know where you've been me lad, but I see you won first Prize!
At least now I know what to do with old "12" tanks--Patch the Roof
I will look tomorrow when I am at shop...
Well? how many?
I found another version of it online from 1874
http://www.archive.org/stream/englis...ciala_djvu.txt
but did not find that in this copy... but lots of neat info...
Solders, page 168, 248.
1890 edition.
Well? how many?
4" of ice for cavalry....
My front header tank was leaking and I've almost got it out. I have an Atlee-Dodge to install. Question is, can I put fuel hose connections on both the inlet and outlet of the tank? On the one I'm removing the inlet was hard conneced with a flared connect and the outlet had a 5" hose connect. Wouldn't a hose isolate the vibration, and is it legal? The blueprints make it appear to have hoses on both lines.
"Good behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity"
Sounds like an acceptable practice but I prefer to stick with the way Piper did most things. Makes replacing parts easier as well.
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
I have dealt with terne plate. If you are experimental and use those things, find a good radiator shop. They can make them brand new for you. I am a skilled solderer, but have never had any luck with radiators and fuel tanks.
I found a shop in National City that can remove sloshing compound, repair aluminum or terne plate, and they paint them black for free. Fixed a useless J-3 tank for 75 bucks. Sloshing compound and auto fuel are a deadly mix.
Use a big heavy copper soldering iron.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
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