Kydex Forming Interior Panels

[mike mcs repair]

Figured I'd start a fresh thread to follow layout and forming as I make some Kydex interior Panels for PA-12.

More pictures to follow along with at my Picasa http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

this is 0.060",(not sure why I said that was too thick in other thread...)(no .040" available, and here now and he is not sure he can find some soon)

most of steps are cold forming, then carefully coming back with the torch to get rid of the "whitening" don't over do it or it will make it get glossy.....

the roller is from Williams low buck tools http://www.lowbucktools.com/prod.html (has spent most of the last 20 years under a bench, till I got this new rolling cart set up) had also seen them at harbor freight.....

the only heated forming I do is for the lap seam joint, kinda hard to see but the lap seam is made to have lip on over lap piece that will fit down into the groove, and the piece shown will have tinnerman nutplates.... hard to describe, by end it will make sense... I didn't want any edges that could get caught loading and unloading cargo....



kinda hard to visualize, but the next piece sits flush in here, with a ~1/8" lip going down into round grove... nutplates to be put on back of the piece shown below.... checkout the dies I made to form this seam at link above

[mike mcs repair]

ok found example test scrap in car... to show lap seam system..

[mike mcs repair]

Very innovative, as always. Those formed ribs should add to the panel rigidity. That's a great idea. The channel came out better than I would have guessed, especially for rolling it cold. How many passes did it take? How did you come up with the heat treating idea to restore color to the stretch marks?

Stewart

the beads are more for looks than strength, need to make a deeper die someday to have one that will really add strength...

the little beads are one pass cold, the angles in brake are one bend cold....

the lap seam had to be done hot, asking allot out of sheet... but i just keep going back and forth till it cools and hold shape...

the torch was a thought on my way to shop today, much better than a heat gun... only heats a thin strip/area where you need to bend/form and leave adjacent area flat...

i still need to add one small bead near bottom where it slides in mounting strips...
.

[mike mcs repair]

You caught me editing, but thanks for the response. I wondered about that channel and trying it cold. Heat makes better sense. Did you set up the heat gun just ahead of the rollers? Heat the rollers themselves?

Invention is a very cool skill. Nice work.

Stewart

bought torch this morning, i use that torch for everything now... new toy... heat whole strip then roll, reheat if needed..

whats not shown in pictures is some guide "blocks" i clamp on to follow edge with rollers... also covers area I don't want getting hot.....

[Speedo]

Really nice craftsmanship.

Looking forward to seeing more pictures as you progress with the project.

Eric

[pa12drvr]

......

Looking forward to seeing more pictures as you progress with the project.
Eric

Me too! Me too!

[mike mcs repair]

......

Looking forward to seeing more pictures as you progress with the project.
Eric

Me too! Me too!

It is fun!..

unfortunately... had the studded tires taken off last week, and these summer ones are almost bald...... and we got EDIT: we are at 8" of "White Spring" on the ground this morning and more coming down.. so I t may be a while till I get brave enough to venture out to shop, if at all.....

the police scanner should sound interesting this morning http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-....pls?id=197504

[mike mcs repair]

only got a couple hours of work in today..

another 30 or so pictures of system...

http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

[mike mcs repair]

.... Film at eleven.

You're right. This stuff is fun to work with.

Stewart

looking forward to your results!

I'm knocking on every piece of wood I see,

as I form this and take pictures...

but it is all doable for anyone.. just have to plan a few step ahead.... and not be afraid to fail and make scrap.....impressive stuff!!

[Bushwhacker Air]

Awesome job, Mike. I have never tried to cold-form the Kydex - always used the oven method. Since my oven is smaller than I need, I now have a wife that uses the oven to - of all things - cook, and no pizza ovens in my garage, I'll give the cold method a try. Your results are certainly acceptable, and downright nice!

[Dave Calkins]

Nice job Mike!

I like the bead, also the shiny trim strip.

For my 180, I'm thinking Kydex on the lower portions of the interior panels, then either leather or wool cloth on the upper areas. The bead would give strength and style.

Stewart, what are you doing to cover the upper rear door post?

Also, I peeked in your window, which is difficult with those Bushwheels, and the panel is CLEAN!

Mike, keep it up!~

[Dave Calkins]

PS. Williams Lowbuck Tools ROCKS!!!!!

[Dave Calkins]

Stewart, I'll look more closely at the root cubby-holes today. Did you consider skylights?

As far as the rear upper doorposts, please reconsider if they are okay left open. Some passengers will grab that area when entering or exiting, and can flex a fuel line or deflect a cable in to the lines or any fasteners or stand-offs in the doorpost area, then you have cables rubbing, or worse- the flap cable turnbuckles catching on things.

I agree that it may be okay left open, but passengers and/or cargo can get at that area and wreak havoc. I know where a set of early-rear doopost covers are hiding. My buddy Matt Harper found himself a set to go with his Zolatoned-185 interior, and there are more available.

[mike mcs repair]

also the shiny trim strip.
...

the front part of plane has a different trim setup using bulb angle and a trim piece on top that I think I would use throughout if I was to do this system again....same look though..

I had avoided it kinda on a cost basis, but weight,strength and work wise I think its a better deal in the long run.... will show in pictures once I get there....

that shiny piece will be powder coated same as floor texture

[mike mcs repair]

another batch of photos uploaded

http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

[mike mcs repair]

another batch of photos uploaded

http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

and another batch of pictures uploaded...

slowed down a bunch and not too fun trying to figure out how to divide panels so once all the channels are installed/welded in place and the dog leg and new removable cross bar is installed, to be able to actually install them & for future mechanics being able to remove door post area easily for inspections each year without destroying panels, (I had visions of the comic with the guy painting the floor and ending up trapped in a corner?, that kinda fun day)

... still gotta divide other side...

hopefully tomorrow will figure out how to do front piece on current side, forming map pocket bump out right into side piece.....

but this is very fun stuff to work with...

hopefully this will encourage others take a stab at working with this stuff...

no real fancy equipment needed other than the die I made for the seam (which actually is a die I made 15 years ago trying to make Cessna skylight channels, just modified some for the thicker material and filled with rubber bands..)

[mike mcs repair]

another batch up,

some forming of map pocket into middle of panel....(need to make rest of pocket behind it...)

got another sheet today so to be able to finish upper baggage...

really need to pay attention to the subtle "pattern"/grain in it or light will make it look a different shade.... no problems as far as grain and bending, just cosmetic.

[mike mcs repair]

Nice. Is the map pocket going to stand out with the pocket back flush to the panel? I can't tell. To form the taper in the pocket you had to stretch the Kydex? Did the grain change?

My little project will require more general heat (as opposed to specifiec heat at the break) in order to make it lay flat on the opposing surfaces. The inside curve makes the break pooch out. I need to stretch one of the faces a little to relieve the pressure. I think.

SB

the pocket opening sticks out about 3/4" at top of opening.. that will give access to about 2" depth of storage between panel and false boot cowl..

no noticeable grain problems......

cover areas you don't want to heat(the area that pooched leave cold) with plywood to block heat if using heat gun... I was quite surprised how much one layer of masking tape on the side I was heating shielded/changed the softness...

thoughts....
the area you want to stretch, you don't necessarily need to stretch it the final direction at first, it may be advantageous to stretch/pull that area 90 deg to what you want to end up with just to loosen that area.....

I was trying to search you tube for videos I had seen in past about "snap back" vacuum forming, which basically stretches sheet in wrong direction first then goes in proper direction for final part on very demanding parts...

[mike mcs repair]

another 142 pics uploaded.....

coming along nicely...

http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

Guard formed right into main piece...





opening for map pocket formed right in main piece.

[Indabush]

Nice

[mike mcs repair]

thanks.. more uploaded...

removable panel for safe fishing pole carriage above your gear....if needed.. will have a couple camlocks hold it on...






more good old kydex forming links/threads to link too?????
.

[mike mcs repair]

more fun 100+ pics added
http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.sku...teriorForming#

lessons learned today... use some felt when forming to allow piece and form to slip...

do all big forming in one heat operation... things go bad weird if stretched allot, cooled and then you reheat it....

know when to be happy & quit and not 'snatch defeat from the jaws of victory!'

[Dave Calkins]

Mike, who's airplane?

[mike mcs repair]

PM sent....



pretty good here, but maybe i can get a little more depth.. if i reheat it and try some more




definition of 'snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!'

[Speedo]

Mike: you're setting a new standard for interior panels. Pretty soon we're going to have to contend with Bushwheel envy and Kydex envy!

Is there such a thing as clear Kydex? I've often wished I could see through the aluminum interior panels in my plane to give a quick check to a pully, fuel selector valve, control cable, etc. A clear Kydex window would be cool.

Eric

[mike mcs repair]

Is there such a thing as clear Kydex? I've often wished I could see through the aluminum interior panels in my plane to give a quick check to a pully, fuel selector valve, control cable, etc. A clear Kydex window would be cool.

Eric

plexi/lexan would work.....

but that's kinda one of my pet peeves, don't like all those clear covers people add outside, if you do the maintenance right there should be nothing to see/needs attention...

[Dave Calkins]

..... if you do the maintenance right there should be nothing to see/needs attention...

.......Famous last words of a non-pilot maintenance tech.

[Dave Calkins]

PS.....

Look up "stupid pilot tricks" Take Care. D

[Speedo]

Mike,

You're not making an allowance for the fact that even the very best mechanics make mistakes.

Plus, there are so many things that can go wrong that can't be attributed to the mechanic: dirt can get in the pulley, causing it to stick; something can fall out of a pocket and disappear under the floorboard, and eventually find its way aft; cables can stretch, etc. That's why I'd love to see plexi or lexan windows in certain spots in the interior (and, to Dave's point, on the exterior).

Eric

[pa12drvr]

Mike, who's airplane?

It's mine....or mine & the DW's...or mine & the lawyers (if DW divorces me before it's done!

Mike's doing great work on it. Hope to be in the air before too much longer.

[Dave Calkins]

Mike, who's airplane?

It's mine....or mine & the DW's...or mine & the lawyers (if DW divorces me before it's done!

Mike's doing great work on it. Hope to be in the air before too much longer.

looks like it's taking forEVER ...just needling! I was curious who is benefitting from Mikes "stick-to-it-ed-ness". You go Mike!! Good for you PA-12drvr

DAVE

[pa12drvr]

Mike, who's airplane?

It's mine....or mine & the DW's...or mine & the lawyers (if DW divorces me before it's done!

Mike's doing great work on it. Hope to be in the air before too much longer.

looks like it's taking forEVER ...just needling! I was curious who is benefitting from Mikes "stick-to-it-ed-ness". You go Mike!! Good for you PA-12drvr

DAVE

Mike is doing a great job in general and particularly coming up with various innovations (for which the PA-12 is a target-rich environment).

Mike should patent some of these innovations and become a gozillionaire....after he finishes this current project, of course.

[Luke_theDrifter]

Once again, excellent craftsmenship Mike!

Obviously you're a very talented mechanic ( first-hand knowledge, the work you did on one of my planes was top-notch), but it looks like this time you've taken interior panels to a whole new level. Keep up the great work

[benflyn]

mike mcs repair,

What grade of Kydex are you using? Kydex 1900?

http://www.kydex.com/brochures/KYDEX..._Interiors.pdf

Are you using the 0.060 for the floor boards?

How does the weight compare to AL and wood?

Thanks
Benflyn

[mike mcs repair]

mike mcs repair,

What grade of Kydex are you using? Kydex 1900?

http://www.kydex.com/brochures/KYDEX..._Interiors.pdf

Are you using the 0.060 for the floor boards?

How does the weight compare to AL and wood?

Thanks
Benflyn

I didn't ask what grade, they knew it was for aircraft..
(actually they gave me PVC by accident first time and boy that stuff is brittle and supports a slow flame.. luckily I caught it before i chopped big sheets up)

.060 for sides,

floor is aluminum & powder coated.. some .050, .032, .020

weights are in a different thread here... i would think by time you powder coated aluminum interior it would be a wash weight wise...

[spinner2]

mike mcs repair,

What grade of Kydex are you using? Kydex 1900?

http://www.kydex.com/brochures/KYDEX..._Interiors.pdf

Are you using the 0.060 for the floor boards?

How does the weight compare to AL and wood?

Thanks
Benflyn

I used .040" thick Kydex T grade

[PilotMikeTx]

Two words: Built-in Holster. Giggity!

[mike mcs repair]

few more pics, final fitting and figuring out around doors and throttle handle.. plus fuselage is black now

[spinner2]

Just today I called Interstate Plastics, the source for Kydex T I'd mentioned earlier in this thread, for my new project's extended baggage. They don't have it in stock now. I contacted Kydex directly and they steered me to Laird Plastics who does stock Kydex T in .040" sheets. Here's their contact info:

Laird Plastics
North 1521 Thierman St
Spokane, WA 99212 US
(Phone) (509) 535-2006
(Fax) (509) 535-0969

[mike mcs repair]

Just today I called Interstate Plastics, the source for Kydex T I'd mentioned earlier in this thread, for my new project's extended baggage. They don't have it in stock now. I contacted Kydex directly and they steered me to Laird Plastics who does stock Kydex T in .040" sheets. Here's their contact info:

Laird Plastics
North 1521 Thierman St
Spokane, WA 99212 US
(Phone) (509) 535-2006
(Fax) (509) 535-0969

cool,

what sort of cost plus shipping are you getting...??

this stuff locally at CAC wassila AK is $250 sheet for .0625