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hydraulic flaps

I considered hydraulic flaps on my experimental Supercub but saw more negatives than positives. Hydraulic flaps need a mechanical connection or they will not extend or retract equally. Dual master & slave cylinders will solve that problem, but is more complex, heavy & nasty (oil). I decided to go with a simple overhead handle with push-pull rods.

Would you mind posting pictures of your set up?

Thanks,
Andrew.
 
Here are a few pictures.
 

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Just a thought here. After reading D.A.s post I thought about using a damper on the flap retract spring and a trip to disengage the ratchet. The trip could be a solenoid that is activated with a trigger or push button. The damper could just be a shock absorber adjusted to allow the springs to pull the flaps up at a controlled rate. It would be lighter and less oily that a full hydraulic system. Thoughts?

Web
 
Just a thought here. After reading D.A.s post I thought about using a damper on the flap retract spring and a trip to disengage the ratchet. The trip could be a solenoid that is activated with a trigger or push button. The damper could just be a shock absorber adjusted to allow the springs to pull the flaps up at a controlled rate. It would be lighter and less oily that a full hydraulic system. Thoughts?

Web

Wow. You stole my idea. It could work.

Mike O showed me his setup. It was totally stealth. It looked entirely factory. The guts were hidden behind the side panel.
 
We've worked with similar systems.

Maybe a push button switch on the throttle knob? Dump the flaps while keeping your hand on the throttle.

Web
 
My main concern is the inadvertent dumping of the flaps with undesirable results. A solution would be a wow switch which opens another bucket of worms.
 
Just a thought here. After reading D.A.s post I thought about using a damper on the flap retract spring and a trip to disengage the ratchet. The trip could be a solenoid that is activated with a trigger or push button. The damper could just be a shock absorber adjusted to allow the springs to pull the flaps up at a controlled rate. It would be lighter and less oily that a full hydraulic system. Thoughts?

Web

I can't remember a stock Super Cub flap handle but: The hard part is to disengage the flap handle locking teeth, without pulling manually on the handle to release tension so the teeth comes a little loose. Like a car parking brake.
Any idea would be great to continue this route.

My existing flap handle or modified car parking brake:

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I also tough using a lockable ''ATV steering wheel shock'' combine with a electric actuator or solenoid. The little spring/loose in those shock was bothering me. So the lack or complexity of adjustment.

s-l225.jpg




But this little steering shock replacing the ratchet could maybe do the work.





Trying not to bend my friend buggy... :




 
The damper could just be a small diameter, double action, cylinder. Tie both ports together and have the fluid (JP-4?) pass from one side to the other through an orifice.
For the release, I'm thinking about a solenoid that will mimic the existing push button. Might have to work the pawl on the ratchet to let it release smoother. Just like polishing the sear on a rifle. That way the flap system will work as manually as designed or with the solenoid releasing the pawl.

Web
 
The damper could just be a small diameter, double action, cylinder. Tie both ports together and have the fluid (JP-4?) pass from one side to the other through an orifice.
For the release, I'm thinking about a solenoid that will mimic the existing push button. Might have to work the pawl on the ratchet to let it release smoother. Just like polishing the sear on a rifle. That way the flap system will work as manually as designed or with the solenoid releasing the pawl.

Web

How do you address the inadvertent dumping of the flaps?
 
How do you address the inadvertent dumping of the flaps?

About the only thing you could do is put a guard on the switch. Even then it's not a sure thing. I once had a guy flip up the 'toilet seat' and push the stores eject on an Apache. In the hanger. Not sure how to build in a cutout to only allow the electrical activation at certain times.

Web
 
About the only thing you could do is put a guard on the switch. Even then it's not a sure thing. I once had a guy flip up the 'toilet seat' and push the stores eject on an Apache. In the hanger. Not sure how to build in a cutout to only allow the electrical activation at certain times.

Web

Put in a guarded master arm for the button. Arm it and it is hot.
 
I've got a manual valve to retract mine. I just hook my thumb on it an when I chop the chrottle, I actuate the valve an they go up smoothly. Check it out at New Holstein or Oshkosh.. Works Awesome.. cost about $100. Just a hydraulic cylinder and check valve to hold flaps down, with a mechanical bypass valve.
 
I was always under the impression that Mikeo's system was way simpler that some of what is proposed here. I no he's recovering from surgery but doesn't anyone else know how his flaps work? DW? Eddie? We need a little help here:roll:
 
Greg, so nice to see your post. MikeO and I have the same flap dump system. Mine was made by Mark Jaeger in WA. The last I knew Mark had these made up and assembled and sells them for less than $1000. Let me know if you would want to contact him.
Ed Doyle
 
Greg, so nice to see your post. MikeO and I have the same flap dump system. Mine was made by Mark Jaeger in WA. The last I knew Mark had these made up and assembled and sells them for less than $1000. Let me know if you would want to contact him.
Ed Doyle
Can you please PM me his info?
 
I'm a bit lost on this thread.

To dump the flap in a Cub, don't you just push the button and the handle falls away to the floor?
 
You cant just simply push the button. It is held at the desired setting by a pawl. You must pull on the handle to relieve pressure. That relieves the pawl and allows you to push the button.
Then lower the lever. Suppose you could just let go of it but I dont treat my equipment that way.

A hydraulic system allows you accomplish all that faster, easier, and without having to lean down.

Hope this helps.
 
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...A hydraulic system allows you accomplish all that faster, easier, and without having to lean down..
Not always, I have seen situations where you would want an intermediate flap setting which could only be determined by "feeling" the pressures on the handle while at the same time not wanting the throttle to be moved either from full open or closed. These were "tight" situations where "no go" was not an option. Any time when landing where you wish to dump the flaps for extra braking action there is always enough time to move your hand from a closed throttle to the flap handle. If you perceive that there isn't enough time between closing the throttle and dumping the flaps, you have been using too much throttle just before touchdown.

I'll take direct mechanical over hydraulic or electric powered flaps any day for optimum performance in tight quarters. Also it is my opinion that it takes less time to reposition your throttle hand to the flap handle when the handle is in the original Cub location rather than overhead.
 
Got this from the Doyle's. The fellow that made Mike O's & Eddie's flap set up is Mark Jaeger @ 509-539-3876. Guess he lives in the Tri Cities area of WA. I think Mark has it pretty well figured out and the wheel does not need to be reinvented��
 
I am with Randy. If you were comfortable going in and out of a 400' strip with stock flaps, how long a strip will you be comfortable with if you can dump flaps and still keep your hands on throttle and stick?
 
I am with Randy. If you were comfortable going in and out of a 400' strip with stock flaps, how long a strip will you be comfortable with if you can dump flaps and still keep your hands on throttle and stick?
A bunch when I don't have to bend forward at a crucial moment.
 
Well, then, let me put it another way. If you can get in and out of a 400 foot strip without touching the flap lever, how much shorter if you do dump the flaps on landing? And can you still get out?
 
This is not all about landing short. When you are landing in blueberry or other brush that is 20-24" tall, when you are in snow or mud, swamps, or when you are landing on a steep uphill slope are instances that come to mind. You hate to remove your hand from the throttle because of the possible drag associated with these situations. You may need partial to considerable throttle to keep the aircraft right side up. If you don't drop the flaps the pitching moment of full flaps can only make the situation more dire. Hope you see my point here.......sometimes it would be nice to have 3 hands or a flap retract button on the stick.
 
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