Boulder Accident

[glaciercub]

msnbc.com news services
updated 9 minutes ago

BOULDER, Colo. - Five people were killed when a small aircraft struck the tow cable of another airplane that was pulling a glider over Boulder on Saturday, fire officials and media reports.

Four people who died in the collision were aboard a Cirrus plane that hit the tow line, NBC affiliate KUSA of Denver reported. Another person on the tow plane also was killed.

Video on MSNBC showed an aircraft on fire, floating toward the ground below a large parachute.

No word on tow plane as yet...but assumed to be 5th person

Sucks, guess parachute didnt help with fire on Cirrus.......

[mike mcs repair]

http://news.google.com/news/search?a...=plane+boulder

ttp://www.cnn.com/2010/US/02/06/colo...ex.html?hpt=T2






Two planes collided in midair Saturday in Boulder, Colorado, causing an unknown number of fatalities, authorities said.

Rick Brough of the Boulder County Sheriff's Department said one of the planes was towing a glider.

After the collision, the pilot of the glider was able to detach from the plane and land safely, Brough said.

Brough said there were fatalities but could not provide a number. He also could not provide details about the type of planes involved.

He said the debris field was spread over a couple of miles.

Authorities began receiving reports of a plane crash around 1:30 p.m. (3:30 p.m. ET), Brough said, adding that people had seen flames in the air in an area less than 5 miles from the Boulder Municipal Airport.

The National Transportation Safety Board and the Federal Aviation Administration are involved in investigating the incident.

[Paul Heinrich]

Ummm, Bummer, Bummer!

[Bugs66]

Wow, I am saddened for the families. Very bizarre too. The Cirrus parachute did nothing other than permit the plane to burn in air.

Close up video here http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo

[mike mcs repair]

. The Cirrus parachute did nothing other than permit the plane to burn in air.

nice supply of fresh air to burn...

so why did it burn so much? the fuel spread inside whole plane? or just the heat?? looked like a fabric plane burning that much.... fuel from both planes spread on it?

[nealjb87]

makes you wonder what that parachute cord is made of

[wirsig]

makes you wonder what that parachute cord is made of

I also wondered that.

[cubscout]

This morning's accounts had only two in the Cirrus and the one in the Pawnee PA-25.

I had a call from bmurrish ~mid-afternoon to see what I'd heard; I didn't fly yesterday, but have been trying to find out more since then. I know the owners of Mile High Gliding, the commercial operator in Boulder; name of Tug pilot not yet released, I may know him/her... Don't know the Glider pilot.

As you'd guess, the Front Range soaring/flying community is really bummed about this. I have a couple insights, but until more factual information is released won't speculate on the internet. The Sailplane pilot will be a key in the investigation, as the towropes are ~200' long. Sailplane pilots are trained to release immediately if things in front are going badly, so he did the correct thing, and timely.

That said, this is a REALLY busy non-towered General Aviation airport. I avoid it when I can because of the high volume and mix of activity.

More when I know more.

Thanks. cubscout

[Grant]

There was a mid air a few years back January, 03 in that same area. One of the aircraft was a Cheyenne and the other was a light single.(NTSB DEN03MA035A)

It IS a very busy area.... Thoughts and prayers for the families...

[Fencer]

The Cirrus parachute did nothing other than permit the plane to burn in air.

Close up video here http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo

In this case thats true, but I was impressed with how slow the plane came down. Had the collision not started a fire it would have been easy to see how they could of survived that landing.
I guess I'm saying I don't see a down side to having a parachute like that. Its like a seat belt and shoulder harness, Ya there's some types of crashes that it won't help you in but i'm not taking my seat belt out just because it won't always save me.

Ok, I'm not going to run out and buy a parachute for my cub. But in a heavy traveling plane like that it seems like a good thing to have, ecspecially if you ever fly IMC or VFR on top of the high mountain areas.

[SJ]

That's really sad news!

sj

[ag-pilot]

I lost a class mate back in the 80s in a mid-air in that same area between a Big Sky airliner and a jump plane. Killed everyone except some of the sky divers, She was a flight attendant for Big Sky.

Thats busy airspace with several airports just north of DIA's Class B and the mountains to the west.

Dave

[cubscout]

Grant, yeah, I was driving in to w*rk when that mid-air hit the AM radio. Two big tragedies: 1. The main one, the people involved; and one was a friend-of-a-frined. 2. The mis-information in the immediate aftermath.

Ag-Pilot, yeah, I was towing gliders that day ~ 20 miles north on THAT day of THAT mid-air (1981), in PA-18-180. My then- Father-In-Law was a recently retired News Junkie in another state, and burned up the phone lines. Ground ops called me up on the hailing frequency to find out if I was dead yet on a 6-minute roundtrip. In constant view...And yes, I knew a couple of those lost in that event. Believe me that really improved my scan, a haabit I still try to hold.

[Sorry, whilst typing, had a call from my old boss from then on the same subject; and then two more.... so I'm not as up to date as possible]

Not trying to make light of this, I'm really grieving for all of those lost. And yes, let's all be patient and wait for a definitive forensic investigation.

Thanks. cubscout

[Clay Hammond]

The Cirrus parachute did nothing other than permit the plane to burn in air.

Close up video here http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?...ted;photovideo

In this case thats true, but I was impressed with how slow the plane came down. Had the collision not started a fire it would have been easy to see how they could of survived that landing.
I guess I'm saying I don't see a down side to having a parachute like that. Its like a seat belt and shoulder harness, Ya there's some types of crashes that it won't help you in but i'm not taking my seat belt out just because it won't always save me.

From the audio signature that video is almost certainly slowed down i believe.

[thaefeli]

'Till you have been there, you guys have no idea how fast this can happen. I always thought I had a good scan untill it happened to me. I am one of the luckiest guys alive. I sure feel for the families. Google N3389D

[Steve's Aircraft (Steve)]

That is the problem with so many of those high tech airplanes. The
dash is so high you can not see over and out of them. They where probably scanning the "flat" panels instead of watching out side. Seems kind of hard to miss seeing two machines that close together ahead of you.
Safty wise, I believe they are going backwards trying to make the electronics scan everything.

[brown bear]

14 years ago I lost 2 of the best friends God ever put on this earth.
They hit a glider with their RV6 . At the same airport .
I hate to think of what the friends and family of the people in this last accident are going through.
Gods Speed
Doug

[cafi19]

I've also wondered how he could have missed 2 planes...but then I stopped myself. Nothing says it was a perpendicular situation. I've had planes come head on at me to the point where and immediate and abrupt turn was required. I'm quite sure the other plane never saw me...even after the turn.

Scary....and it DOES happen fast.

God bless the families and friends of these people. They are left to deal with the aftermath....which is never pretty.... in addition to their loss!

cafi

[Steve Pierce]

Having survived a mid-air, I feel very very fortunate. It can happen to any of us. Stay vigilant.

[Fencer]

That is the problem with so many of those high tech airplanes. The
dash is so high you can not see over and out of them. They where probably scanning the "flat" panels instead of watching out side. Seems kind of hard to miss seeing two machines that close together ahead of you.
Safty wise, I believe they are going backwards trying to make the electronics scan everything.

The dash in the cirrus is a lot lower than say a cessna 182 and the approach is more nose down. I doubt it was the lack of a good view that caused the problem.
That said the cirrus is a fast plane and all the info on the glass could be distracting.

I had a real eye opener last week. I went flying with two friends, one in a yellow cub and one in a white cessna 150 with a sage green stripe. We where looking at some back country strips in utah and the ground had spotty snow cover with sage brush poking through. The cessna was in the lead with the two yellow cubs following behind and to either side.
While it was easy to keep the cub in view I lost sight of the cessna numerous times. I would look to the side or down and when i looked back it was like it magicly disapeared. I would start scanning like crazy and finally find it right where i left it when it flew over a bare spot. The only way to really keep him visably was to fly below him so he was outlined against the sky.

My point being is I knew the plane was there but had it been coming the other way at a close rate of 200-300 mph i would never of found it in time. I have to wonder if the glider and or tow plane where white. The cirrus was probably decending and I'm sure the ground was snow covered.

After we landed I mentioned how hard it was to see the cessna and the other cub pilot said he had the same problem. (never lost sight of the cub that yellow really stands out)

I think given the right ground clutter, a high close rate, and a mometary distraction it could happen to any of us.

Blu

[cubscout]

Blu, good observations, and something for ALL of us to think about: Girlscout thinks we fly in a "Yellow Soupcup", 'cause that's an approximation of how I tend to I.D. on the CTAF. Might be an avitar should I ever adopt one...

It was a little hazy in Boulder that day, but not bad, and yes some snowy background, on the foothills but a a brightly coloured Pawnee, and a shiny, garishly painted 2-32. But it's usually harder to pick out aeroplanes against the ground than against the sky.

Thanks. cubscout

[courierguy]

You know how the Germans (and others I suppose) in WW1 had a camo for their aircraft and ships that looked like a Dali abstract painting? A lot of different colors and shapes. At first glance you'd think it would stand out a mile away. Several years ago a "clown" type act in a Cub had his plane painted in a similar fashion, trying to make it look clown like.... I spotted it at 200' agl, I was at 700', I could not believe how hard it was to keep track of, it really made me a believer of that type of camo. I always wished I'd had a chance to tell him that. I think ONE big color, with some small trim lines stands out the best.

[ColoZKS6]

Here's the 2-32...N2472W

Read the Cirrus caught the Pawnee square, while the Cirrus was Southbound (sun in the face?). Sailplanes can be difficult to pick up in the air due to minimal area.

I have a couple of hours in 72W. Fine flying ship. I remember when it was being polished in the shop and put on the flightline. It also has history as being a Lockheed QT-2, converted back to a 3 place ship.

They hit a glider with their RV6 . At the same airport .

I remember this one. Happened at pattern altitude.The Grob 103 lost about 4 feet of wing tip. Landed safely...

I almost got tagged in the Cub (bright Yellow) by an Ercoupe the other day...800 feet agl. Glad I saw him, 'cause he never saw me...