Short Wing Piper Club Play Fair.

[Clayton Harper]

A 30 year old Club goes after Steve Pierce two year old web site. Pretty Small. Not unlike the Yellow Cub deal. http://us1.campaign-archive.com/?u=0...9&e=4c40ad977e

[irishfield]

Ask their lawyer if they like sex and travel !

Also remind them they will be paying the defendants legal costs in the end and they might wanna rethink their nonsense before it gets expensive.

[mike mcs repair]

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...r-Club-Lawyers

[Superpacer]

As a member of both organizations (sa well as Supercub.org), I am discusted it the way this has been handled. As I read the responces on the SWPC e-mail list, most members are just as upset. Simple discussions between the leadership probably would have resolved any issue, percieved or otherwise. One thing is clear, membership in the SWPC will continue to drop, due to events like this.

john

[wirsig]

Did'ya tell ole' Meredith to piss up a rope? How can they trademark a term that's been around longer then there group has existed?

[Steve Pierce]

Pretty interesting chain of events. You try time and again to get an organization to see the need for a good website and when after 2 years they are still not interested and with the help of your friends you do it yourself only two years later to get slapped with something like this. If you can't beat 'em hire lawyers and call foul. Thanks for the support guys, it means a lot.

[JP]

Steve, as you can see no good deed goes unpunished.

Meredith is on pretty shaky legal ground. The people behind this are really hoping that the letter does the trick and itimidates you into signing off on their unadulterated nonsense. It's also highly likely that SWPC doesn't have the funds to go much past the "make lawyer noise" letter and get into real litigation on the matter.

I'd tell the ringleaders behind this bit of nonsense to stick it up their ass. Don't dignify those turdballs with a response.

[12 Geezer]

I knew that when Mr. Russel joined in it would be worth reading; he is always so eloquent!

Ok, pithy.

Dang near spit my drink all over my keyboard - - Ummm, my employer's keyboard - that not good - - -

Right on, sir.

[mike mcs repair]

i am also a former member of the "club", but never again...

[Fortysix12]

Put the web site on hold, wait a year and revisit it, time has a way of working things out. It's there loss not yours.

[Steve Pierce]

Jeff, Whose website are you suggesting be put on hold?

[SJ]

Thanks folks. We have put a lot of time and effort in the shortwingpipers.org website over the last two years and have no intention of doing anything different. Recently we have just invested a tremendous amount of time and money in revamping the entire site.

There have been efforts at communication, but to some folks an "understanding" is when you do everything their way.

sj

[Steve Pierce]

Well said as usual.

[Flying Miss Daisy]

Hey Steve,
I went to the US patents office and from what I see the Trademark Shortwing Pipers Club was filed on January 19 2010. The same day the lawyers letter was written. I think you need to contact the office and protest!
John

[JP]

Hey Steve,
I went to the US patents office and from what I see the Trademark Shortwing Pipers Club was filed on January 19 2010. The same day the lawyers letter was written. I think you need to contact the office and protest!
John

That fact alone makes a very condescending and patronizing bit of correspondence from the opposing law firm even more egregious. I can definitely see a judge asking counsel for SWPC some very interesting questions during any legal action they commence seeking relief, injunctive or otherwise.

Put an appropriate disclaimer on shortwingpipers.org that the two groups are wholly unrelated (like the Burlington Coat and Burlington Factories matter). And get a real patent lawyer to swat the SWPC if they persist with this type of unadulterated nonsense in trying to keep you from using the shortwingpipers.org domain.

[Flying Miss Daisy]

WOW Jeff I was just getting used to your previous truck driver eloquence.
This one is more....Colbyesque!

[mvivion]

Seems reminiscent of Cub Crafters threatening to sue Legend for use of Cub Crafter's trademarked term "Cub"....

Good grief! Aviation is such a small community. Unfortunately, I guess some folks are a lot "smaller" than others within this community.

My best wishes to the Steves that they prevail in this nonsense.
And, that it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to do so.

MTV

[Gunny]

Steve P - I'm behind you 100%. This is nonsense. I don't own a short wing but I own paper for two short wings - Bushmaster dreams in the back of my mind. I just singed up for the SWP Club and will post over there too.

Bottom line these folks need to realize is that GA is a minority out of the gate. The more we fight amongst ourselves the easier we make it for the outside forces to take away our rights and freedoms. I think CC finally figured that out - a GA monopoly is of no benefit if you have no customers, just ask the guy who owns the buggy whip patent...

Never mind that from where I sit, when I think of Short Wing Pipers I think of Steve Pierce - the tri-pacer guy. Right behind him is Mike Butterfield with the turbo normalized tri-pacer checking in at FL one niner... without guys like this what good is a type club???

This too will pass - in the meantime, if your legal defense fund needs some help just give us a shout.

[gbflyer]

That is a $150 dollar threat letter the attorney drafted. It seems doubtful that the membership would be interested in a $5K retainer and continued legal expenses to cause your web site any real grief. I believe you did the right thing in your courteous letter to their membership. Probably won't go anywhere.

I'm no attorney, but I have been involved in a couple of these things.

gb

[12 Geezer]

Yup, filed same day as letter. Filed by the author of the letter.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=40046146g.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=& p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~:=PARA1$LD&expr= PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=short+wing&p_tagrepl~:=P ARA2$COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=S ubmit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

The club also filed this one in Nov, 2006. It specifically exempted any claim to the words, just claimed the logo.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...04:-P6146g.3.3

[Clayton Harper]

Yup, filed same day as letter. Filed by the author of the letter.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=40046146g.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=& p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~:=PARA1$LD&expr= PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=short+wing&p_tagrepl~:=P ARA2$COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=S ubmit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

The club also filed this one in Nov, 2006. It specifically exempted any claim to the words, just claimed the logo.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...04:-P6146g.3.3

I got a TESS Error on both of these links. Please tell us how you "work" this site.

[Roger Peterson]

Have only been to Federal court twice on patent and trademark infringement suits and both of them cost in excess of $250,000. The cease and desist letter is very inexpensive but the costs to carry it any farther is really great.
Don 't think their pockets may be deep enough, but if they want to play that game, I would be glad to help.

[mike mcs repair]

Yup, filed same day as letter. Filed by the author of the letter.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=toc&state=40046146g.1.1&p_search=searchss&p_L=50&BackReference=& p_plural=yes&p_s_PARA1=&p_tagrepl~:=PARA1$LD&expr= PARA1+AND+PARA2&p_s_PARA2=short+wing&p_tagrepl~:=P ARA2$COMB&p_op_ALL=AND&a_default=search&a_search=S ubmit+Query&a_search=Submit+Query

The club also filed this one in Nov, 2006. It specifically exempted any claim to the words, just claimed the logo.
http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield...04:-P6146g.3.3

so is it even valid yet, if just filled?

How long does it take to register a trademark?

It is difficult to predict exactly how long it will take an application to mature into a registration, because there are so many factors that can affect the process. Generally, an applicant will receive a filing receipt approximately three weeks after filing, which will include the serial number of the application. All future correspondence with the USPTO must include this serial number. You should receive a response from the Office within six to seven months from filing the application. However, the total time for an application to be processed may be anywhere from almost a year to several years, depending on the basis for filing, and the legal issues which may arise in the examination of the application.

[Dave Calkins]

Guys, my opinion is that the Steves' ShortWing website is a very real threat to the SWPC's continued growth in membership.

Look what SuperCub.org has done over the years since 2002 to provide long wing owners with edification and comraderie, and that at a daily dose through the internet rather than a monthly newsletter, etc. The Website has a very real advantage in its' attraction of members.

I agree that you should fight them Steve and Steve, out of principle, but not to beat up any one or two individual instigators who probably deserve a beating. Good Luck. DAVe

[Roger Peterson]

The only thing that will determine if it has any value is if it stands up in court. Just filling it and having it issue just gives you the right to defend it in court. If it is not upheld, it is worthless.

[mike mcs repair]

.....
The club also filed this one in Nov, 2006. It specifically exempted any claim to the words, just claimed the logo.

picture shown here.....but i didn't want to include it...

Word Mark SHORT WING PIPER CLUB INC.
Goods and Services IC 035. US 100 101 102. G & S: association services, namely, promoting the interests of pilots and owners of aircraft. FIRST USE: 19841200. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 19841200
Mark Drawing Code (3) DESIGN PLUS WORDS, LETTERS, AND/OR NUMBERS
Design Search Code 18.09.01 - Airplanes; Gliders, airplane
26.01.02 - Circles, plain single line; Plain single line circles
26.01.03 - Circles, incomplete (more than semi-circles); Incomplete circles (more than semi-circles)
26.01.17 - Circles, two concentric; Concentric circles, two; Two concentric circles
26.01.20 - Circles within a circle
Serial Number 77048544
Filing Date November 21, 2006
Current Filing Basis 1A
Original Filing Basis 1A
Owner (APPLICANT) Short Wing Piper Club Inc. NON-PROFIT CORPORATION DELAWARE 3705 Shawnee Drive Sierra Vista ARIZONA 85650
Attorney of Record Grace J. Fishel
Disclaimer NO CLAIM IS MADE TO THE EXCLUSIVE RIGHT TO USE "SHORT WING PIPER CLUB INC." APART FROM THE MARK AS SHOWN
Description of Mark Color is not claimed as a feature of the mark. The mark consists of three aircraft and one semi-circle inside two outer circles.
Type of Mark SERVICE MARK
Register PRINCIPAL
Live/Dead Indicator LIVE

so any search done before the 19th of this year would have shown no trademark on name/words.... yet steves and others have been using it for years?? rightly so, and now the club is trying to trademark a common name?

[jcrowles]

Steve P. I own an original Pa-20 and have for 47 years. I use to belong to SWPC. They never did much for what they charged us members yearly
in dues , so I dropped out. What they are trying to do to you STINKS. If they do take you to court, I'll be glad to help you with legal costs !
John

[fabricfan]

I guess the days of working out differences man-to-man, face-to-face are long gone. We are in a new age where lawyers are the first option, and actual conversation is the last. I think it is ironic how much damage lawyers have done to GA over the decades, but hiring one was their first action. I also pledge to donate to any litigation fund.

[Steve Pierce]

Thought I would share this with everyone here as well. I appreciate everyone's support.

Dear ShortWingPipers.Org Members, Registered Users, and Friends,


The Cease and Desist letter from the SWPC was very disappointing to me. Not because their threat concerned me so much, but because it was a move that could cause a large rift in the entire Short Wing community. There is no benefit to any of us to have a division in these groups - and I certainly do not want to see that. General aviation is already so small, that we must all work together.


The goal of the Short Wing Piper Club is to be a social group to share information about these airplanes. We have a similar goal, but ours is focused specifically around an on-line relationship, access to information, and technical Q&A. To me, these are not conflicting goals. We have NEVER considered ourselves in competition with SWPC, and take exception to their presumptions in that regard.


So what are we going to do? Well a lot has been said since the membership of SWPC has seen the letter we received. We hope that guidance from the SWPC members to the SWPC Executive board will prevail and we will receive an official retraction of their threat. Did they cause some hard feelings? Yes. Can we move on from it and keep a strong community of Short Wing people together? In my heart I truly believe so.



As many of you know I love airplanes, but I have a true passion for the Short Wings. I learned to fly in my Clipper, have spent many memorable hours with my Mom and Dad and there Clipper, watched my wife obtain her license in a Tri-Pacer, bonded with my girls with the restoration of their Tri-Pacer and seen my son fall in love with aviation from the right seat of my Pacer. I wanted to provide a venue for people to exchange information and share their passion for their airplanes. I believe that while not perfect, we are on the right track in that regard. We will keep working to make it better, more functional, and more valuable to all of you.


Finally, I can't express enough how very much Steve(SJ), Cathy, and I appreciate the support we have received over the last several days. It has been overwhelming, and we greatly appreciate it. It is our goal to "keep on keepin' on" and we will do so because we think it is the right thing to do for the Short Wing Piper community.


Sincerely,


Steve Pierce

[Grizzley]

Steve,
you are a class act!!!
JD

[Dave Calkins]

Steve,
you are a class act!!!
JD

[WWhunter]

Outstanding response Steve. People seem to jump at the jugular these days before trying to have a civil resolution to things. You definetly are trying to reslove this with an open mind. I can't say I speak the same from the "other" party.
I wish you the best of luck.
WW

[mike mcs repair]

http://www.shortwingpipers.org/forum...r-Club-Lawyers

looks like steve has some positive progress going, see post #45

[Iflylower]

Right On! And well said.

[JP]

How often, in today's fractious world, do you get to read something where someone admits they may have made a mistake? Mr. Beck is to be commended and supported in his effort to bridge the gap and find a mutually acceptable way for everyone to move forward and get back to flying and sharing information about flying.

[Steve Pierce]

Thanks for all the support. We are supposed to get a letter from the lawyers that the Cease and Desist order has been dropped. Was overwhelmed by all the responses and support. Thanks.

[BHarvey]

I hope you all can humor me by letting me tell a story. During what I remember to be the early 80s my hometown hosted a fly-in. For our little town in Southwest Missouri this was a big event. Planes flew in from all over. More were there that anytime before or since. One that particularly stood out amongst the crowd was a beautifully restored Tripacer. The owner stood next to it with much pride in his pristine toy. At the time I was not yet a teenager but I had been around airplane long enough to know not to stand too close to someone pride and joy. Another kid both younger and less experience than I was equally drawn to the airplane. Before the kid had even so much as extended a finger to smudge the paint he was scolded by the owner for standing to close and scared away.
Later I pointed the airplane out to my father and said how I thought it was one of the best Tripacer that I had ever seen. He mentioned that it was owned by the president of the Short Wing Pipers Association. At the time I didn’t really know what that was but I thought that anyone with the title of “president” must be important.
Later on in the day after the pancakes were consumer and raffle prizes handed out it was time for the flour bombing contest. I remember seeing that beautiful Tripacer at 50ft over the ground grinding down the length of the runway at the verge of stall. Just as it came over the target in front of the crowd the bottom fell out from beneath it.
The Tripacer dropped to the ground in the most ungraceful manner. After the first bounce instead of letting the poor plane coming to rest on the runway, the ‘president’ poured the coals to it in the futile attempt to make it fly again. Once again it struggled into the air but once again it ended with a similar result. This time it hit the ground past the end of the runway, bounced across a dirt road tragically coming to rest on its back at the top of a brush pile.
After all that it was difficult to pick out any finger prints made by eager kids fascinated by airplanes. To me I see parallels between then and now.

[mike mcs repair]

I hope you all can humor me by letting me tell a story..........

After all that it was difficult to pick out any finger prints made by eager kids fascinated by airplanes. To me I see parallels between then and now.

good story

[AkPA/18]

Is this the same plane??

http://members.cox.net/mspearl/start.html

Thanks

Mark

[Coulee Clipper]

Looks like the SWPC website is down. What's happening there?

John