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windy outside..palmer ak?

yep

I went to go flying yesterday after 1.5 hours of preheating and thawing and ended up turning around and coming back to birchwood. Was funny, winds where 180 degrees difffent at 1000 feet than on the ground, but when I headed across the inlet, I was flying sidewards. When headed into the wind, my airspeed indicator read 105 mph and my gps read 29 mph ground speed. And lets not talk about the bumps. I guess I should of check for an Airmet.

Terry
 
I tried to move the Cub into a hangar at Wasilla for the annual yesterday. Took the first rope off the wing and the plane went sideways! Lashed it back down and went home. No way was I going to try taxiing, let alone flying!
 
So i get to birchwood and check on planes at a hanger where owner is out of town.... Someone left a plane parked there this weekend not tied down at all luckly it didn't flip into terrys plane... Gust to 36 knots here. Some people!
And this guy lives in palmer where his windows must be rattling at home, i wounder when he wil remember he didn't tie it down.. Or whats up????
 
We were close to loosing one at Palmer yesterday. It was tied loosely with very thin rope. I went and got a pile of real rope that he could use. I went by later and it was all lashed to his truck so I hope it survived the night. It looked like it would.

I hate to see good airplanes get gobbled by the wind, but every year some do.

Jerry
 
Spent a few hours observing and watching at Wasilla this morning. My Tcraft was flying occassionally although not as much as another Tcraft who has a LOT... of slack in his ropes. I think he is better off that way rather than being lashed tight though. The heavier aircraft are staying put,with the tails of some cubs raising.

No reporting at Wasilla as Jerry mentioned. After watching the planes fly with neutral elevator I am guessing 40 MPH with gusts of 50 MPH or so.

While on the subject...how many off you lash tight or let them fly or some where in between? I am sure this has been covered before and a search would reveal many methods but it is always nice to hear a fresh perspective
 
hooligan said:
... Tcraft who has a LOT... of slack in his ropes. I think he is better off that way rather than being lashed tight though..
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was always neat visiting Egegik when wind was blowing and see all the planes tied down but flying off the ground a bit, just happy..... so do those count as airframe flight hours :drinking: :drinking: :drinking:
 
I just drove in from Willow pulling a 24' enclosed snowgo trailer. The wind starts around the Big Lake cutoff and is friggin howling across the Parks from Seward Meridian to the hiway interchange. It was a real handful keeping the truck on the road from where Philo's used to be down to the hospital. The wind is making the temps much warmer. It's -17 in Willow and +10 in Wasilla. Palmer was reporting winds @ 42 gusting to 70. I believe it!

I tie my planes down snug. Even more so when I anticipate strong winds.

SB
 
StewartB said:
I just drove in from Willow pulling a 24' enclosed snowgo trailer. The wind starts around the Big Lake cutoff and is friggin howling across the Parks from Seward Meridian to the hiway interchange. It was a real handful keeping the truck on the road from where Philo's used to be down to the hospital. The wind is making the temps much warmer. ...
SB
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I take it you were in the slow lane in case your trailer weathervaned so you didn't clear the other 2 lanes of the road!
 
It blew all weekend out on the river. Yesterday I was putzing up a swamp on a snowgo at about 20mph and a Cub passing above me couldn't keep up. I'm not exaggerating!

Stewart
 
Here is what I found at Palmer Airport today. A sad day for a fellow cubber.

2010_windstorm_007.jpg



2010_windstorm_029.jpg



2010_windstorm_014.jpg
 
The only good thing you could say about those photos, is that it will be easy to get at cleaning that belly. Don't have to bend over to do it.

Sad, I feel for the guy. It was honking in Palmer today, I some observations with gusts into the 80 knots. I went out to MRI ski strip last night at 9pm, it was blowing hard (gusting above 25k). Nobody else ouit there taking their winter covers off or checking ropes. I took several sets of covers off that were wrecking ailerons and put them in the cubs through their window. When I checked again after work, no sign that many had been out to check their planes. I just don't understand that some people ignore their planes when the wind blows.

Keeps the mechanics and rebuild shops in business I guess.
 
The ropes didn't break on it, the wingstrut attach points ripped right out of the wing. I think that had he had the Atlee tiedowns installed it would have still been sitting there intact. Just my opinion though. You can actually see in one of my pics that the rope is still tied to the wing strut.
 
16-bravo said:
Here is what I found at Palmer Airport today. A sad day for a fellow cubber.
....


so is that the tie-down rope still tied to left front strut & tie down ring lying on ground?????

looks like it broke strut attach out /off of wing, good selling point for the atlee beef-ups, or why to only use atlees hurricane tie-downs.....

was yesterday looking at and tring to decide if i would put the old regular tie-down rings back on this project since it also has the hurricane ones.. think that picture helped me decide!
Click to expand...
 
16-bravo said:
The ropes didn't break on it, the wingstrut attach points ripped right out of the wing. I think that had he had the Atlee tiedowns installed it would have still been sitting there intact. Just my opinion though. You can actually see in one of my pics that the rope is still tied to the wing strut.
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yup, it would have been just fine!

And there is one worse scenario, is strut attach gets damaged by high wind like this but doesnt break till later, in flight....

mvivon? can tell story of that one....
 
hangars?

I always wondered why there aren't more hangars in Alaska, and why it was so hard to sell the ones they built in Palmer. They need to build more simple ones. For some reason they over build them and then no one can afford them.

Why spend 125k on a hangar for a 80k plane? We don't need commercial ones just something to keep the snow and wind off. No heat, no bathrooms, no drains, just a box. Just my two cents though.

The t-hangars at Merrill are selling for 125-129k, and the association dues/taxes are almost 300 a month. O'well I guess I can dream.
 
Re: hangars?

flyinalaska said:
I for a 80k plane?
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...... might not be a 80k plane after you rebuild it cause wind killed it or you wrecked it, might be 80k +repairs,

one customer that had 250k into cub over time counting all the times they had to rebuild it....
heres it going into jig last time with me..(me ~100 lbs lighter then too!)
Sprite%2013.jpg
 
I had just pulled up when 16 B was taking those shots. I know the owner of the cub. He's a real nice guy and I hate to see this kind of thing happen.

On the good news front we were able to get a rope come-a-long on the 172 over at Tom Bishops and pull it back down and secure it before the wing hit the ground. It's nice to run into people that won't just drive by a loose plane. There were three of us on the 172 and it is safe now.

Hopefully the winds will die down at midnight like predicted but at the moment I have white caps in my toilet.

Jerry
 
as usual the adn news got it wrong... the plane is still tied down nice.... just that most of the plane is not still attached to that part...

but, onto lessons, always remember to look up front lift strut and make sure strut attach bracket is has not been bent and is in line with strut.... after hard wind or time away from plane......
 
As a 35 year survivor of valley windstorms I have learned some things that help. 1st of all pilots need to check their airplanes very frequently during a wind event as ropes loosen, someone upwind may have issues that will affect your craft, etc. During the largest windstorm I have ever witnessed, in the late 70's, there were about 30 airplanes in Palmer to match yesterdays. There were 10 or 15 at the old Wasilla airport as well. Many of the planes had the wing attach fitting ripped clear out of the wing and bye bye plane. This underscores the need for over-the-spar tie down points like Mike has shown. You can let your tail fly as long as your wings are tied straight down but if you are tied with ropes forward you must tie the tail or the wind will pull the plane forward and up to the limits of the rope. I was tied to a dock on Lake Lucille with too long of ropes and tail not tied. The wind pulled my plane forward and flew it to the heights of the rope. Between gusts it would drop my plane unevenly until I finally had a bent rear spar from the tip hitting the snow. I was out of state at the time and not very happy when I returned. I also had Lake Lucille winds bend my wing attach fittings one winter and only saved it by appyling carpet covered 2x4's on the leading edge to spoil the lift. The carpeted 2x4's were standard tie down procedure until I got the over spar tie downs. That allows you to spoil lift without having wing covers flapping around doing their own brand of damage. Atlee's wing attach fitting reinforcement plates also help with that problem. Anyone tied outside during a major windstorm should inspect their wing attach points very carefully and mack sure they have not been bent down at all. Those are stressed for tension of lift, not the constant 90 degree pull of a tie down rope. Finally, in 2000 my bird moved inside and that is the best way to survive the windstorms and sleep at night. My $.02. Greg
 
I know I am not alone when I'm tying down the planes around me , only to protect my plane from loose planes and parts. This happens every year. On the other hand I do see alot of not frequently seen friends out watching their planes, durning the windstorms and most often late at night.
pete
 
Greg, I remember the storm of '77 or maybe '78 ...? My cousin and I were co-owners of a Stinson. We made the cover picture of the Frontierman adding rope to keep it from flying away. If I remember right we had two or three weeks of low temps and high winds. All roads were drifting in...A real mess.We had several airplanes balled up at Palmer. Sad situation!

The decision on which method to use to tie down is based on the airplanes weight, CG, wing area, etc. The gust factor is the wild card. In the Mat Valley we commonly see 20 to 30 mph difference between the sustained wind and gusts. Stewart says he lashes his down tight and I think that is the way to go as too much slack in ropes can cause a high G jerk when a gust hits and cause damage.

The storm of the last couple of days caught me off guard and I was scrambling to keep my TCraft in one piece. It has a huge wing and the plane is just over 800 pounds. The best method I could devise was to tie down with minimal slack with full up elavator and a rachet strap kept taught from each tie down to the gear step. The straps kept the tail from jerking and sashaying from quartering gusts.

Not much sleep lately as a result of this storm. I know better than to be caught in an unprotected area. Never the less I allowed it to happen.


Jim
 
Palmer wind

Well here is my two cents for what it is worth. I spent all night outside trying to keep my planes tied down and a few others but I have learned a few lessons. Spar strap tie downs work. Every one of my pipers had pulled rings. If I didn't have fuel trucks, vans and the like in front of my planes, there would have been more damage like the other poor chap. The biggest thing that would have saved me is if the tie downs were aligned not with the prevailing wind but with the large velocity wind direction(if that makes sense). The wind blew 010-020 most of the night at 80plus. The tied downs are all at 050. The wind was blocked from the main part of the wings but the damage to the tie down/spar, etc. came from the gust hitting the tail and trying to spin the aircraft. As the airplanes hopped sideways and torqued on that upwind spar fitting it simply twisted it right out of the airplane. If I had the Atlee stuff, it would have not been a problem, except in the rudder where it was bouncing around. (check the rudder cable bolts, I have new bolts with wear from the wind). Lastly, for hours I watched and re-roped airplanes down because they didn't have the tails of the rope tied. As the wind blew the tails flicked around and untied themselves. EVERY ONE OF MY (12) RATCHET STRAPS FAILED they were the small ones I had as backups to the ropes. The big straps all survived. By the way I fell on my ass at 3 am trying to see what the crash was and slid across 50 feet of grass, hit ice sped up then hit dry pavement. It took me 200 feet to slow down. Thank god for carharts.
 
Oh, the untied tail thing. When the wind blows the airplane without the tail tied down, it will push it rearward until the pressure of the wind overcomes the airplanes ability to right itself and it will end up on the nose (if the wind is strong enough). Seen it many times. It is o.k. if it is a gentle 40 mile a hour. But, 70-80-90 it will go on its nose.
 
articfox said:
Oh, the untied tail thing. When the wind blows the airplane without the tail tied down, it will push it rearward until the pressure of the wind overcomes the airplanes ability to right itself and it will end up on the nose (if the wind is strong enough). Seen it many times. It is o.k. if it is a gentle 40 mile a hour. But, 70-80-90 it will go on its nose.
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like this....

t_craft_nose.jpg


not a scratch on this t-craft ++.... many years ago...
 
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