I've noticed that Super Cub prices are dropping and PA-11 prices are skyrocketing.
I Imagine its because of the LSA eligibility, but I think there are gonna be a lot of surprised people who pay a lot of money for an 11 and find out that a lot of them are not LSA eligible.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
It seems like some cost about as much as a well used SC (60k). I love cubs a lot, but I don't understand why people pay so much for them. They are slow, and only carry two people. It doesn't make sense to pay 100k for an airplane like that. I guess thats the thing, it's really near impossible to justify a "need" for an airplane.
Which PA11s aren't LSA eligible?Originally Posted by S2D
Steve Pierce
"When everything seems to be going against you, remember that the airplane takes off against the wind, not with it."
Henry Ford
Why would they not be LSA eligible? Some of them are over 890 (like some of the Legend Cubs), but as I understand it, the "book" weight is what they go by.
I could be wrong, but as long as they are 100hp or under, I think they are good to go.
gb
You need to buy the FAA CD and check every PA-11 to verify if it is legal.
All the ones around here, were in the restricted category at one point in their life and most were flown in overgross configuration. Rendering them ineligible. Contrary to most opinions, it is not the certified gross weight that decides if it is LSA eligible, but the maximum allowable takeoff weight. a technical difference.
Probably will be overlooked by the FAA until someone flying one LSA wrecks and kills their passenger.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Stearmans, Wacos and Travel Airs are getting cheaper. I'm waiting for one of those to get down in my price range.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Just as usual...
Selling price and buying price are two different things....
Time to buy "stuff" and get rid of your paper.
Piper J-5A C-90 N40877
J-5 Project Pictures
I am no A&P or lawyer, but I can read the A691 TCDS...I think, and can make sense of at least some of it. Maximum takeoff weight for a PA11 in restricted category for crop spraying is 1250 lbs., at least that is what it says on page 26, note 6 (a). I think the MTOW for LSA aircraft is 1320. Again, I could be missing something. Could it be you are saying that the problem lies in the fact that normal category is 1220 lbs. as opposed to 1250 for restricted even though it is allowed in the TCDS and is still below 1320?You need to buy the FAA CD and check every PA-11 to verify if it is legal.
All the ones around here, were in the restricted category at one point in their life and most were flown in overgross configuration. Rendering them ineligible. Contrary to most opinions, it is not the certified gross weight that decides if it is LSA eligible, but the maximum allowable takeoff weight. a technical difference.
Probably will be overlooked by the FAA until someone flying one LSA wrecks and kills their passenger.
Not trying to argue, just trying to learn.
I was under the impression that the FAA didn't overlook too many things.
Yes, they are expensive, maybe a little less than some of the new Ford diesel trucks, but you can buy 4 of them for the price of a new Sport Cub.
gb
Not exactly, most I've seen were tested for a maximum load as specified on the 337. TCDS specs can be exceeded in restricted category Cam 8 operations. FAA TCDS are down right now so I can't check on what you are referring to, but it may have been for a specific spray system.
Plus, aircraft in Alaska are (or were) allowed to operate 10% over gross.
thus any PA-11 operation in Alaska has a 1220 + 122 = 1342 maximum allowable takeoff weight.
all gray areas now, but sooner or later, the FAA is going to have to clarify this and hopefully change it to something a little clearer.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
I'm with you. Saw an old beater Stearman on Barnstormers last month for $50K, still airworthy and in annual, just well loved. I'm sure it was scooped up immediately.
Here's a nice 4000 Travel Air at $72,500. Thats a great price in and of itself.
http://www.barnstormers.com/ad_detail.php?ID=320120
S2D:
FAR 91.323 says 115% of max certified weight in Ak. for Part 121 and 135 operators only. No part 91 Ops. This info was current until 3-14-07. May have changed by now.
that's good. probably not too many PA-11's were operated on pt 135 up there.
The most important aspect of this signature line is that you don't realize it doesn't say anything significant until you are done reading it & then it is too late to stop reading it....
Yep, the little buggers are pretty expensive. I have one with flaps, the last offer on it was 50+ but I would hate to sell it. It is such a neat little bird. The problem with alot of these birds is that they have to be pretty much stock if you want to do alot with them for training, hauling, etc. Think that if your PA-11 is really a converted j-3 then you may have a healthy LSA aircraft. If it is a heavy stock PA-11 with starters, etc. Soon you are working with a useful load of that includes the 220lb alaska man, and roughly 5 gallons of gas and no baggage. That gets a little rough. I know of one that is being sold as a cub-special that is not a special. It has a super-cub tail, starter, batt, and a radio. It weighs almost 1000 lbs. Who ever buys it will have to strip it down to make sure he can take a friend with him. So, be careful when you are looking for one. Get informed. Rog??
The best mod for any aircraft is more gas.
I have 100's of hours in a J-3, and now fly a PA-11 with a cruise prop. The Cub Special is a J-3 with a purpose in life; x-country, pipeline, towing, etc. I love being able to hit the starter, jump off the ground and fly 550 miles at over 100 mph. The aircraft should command more money than a J3. And did I mention the legroom and visibility?
I have both a J3 and a PA-11. I like the J3 better.
JimC
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