Avid Flyer Experimental guy... fabric question

Great forum you guys have here! I was pushed over this way from the guys on Backcountrypilot.org Hopefully I won't be shunned for not flying a Supercub. Short introduction. I grew up in Northern Idaho near Orofino (S68) and Elk River. I joined the Airforce at 18 and went overseas for 4 years flying as a Boom Operator on a KC-135. After 7 years of that I got the chance to crosstrain to be a Flight Engineer so I jumped on that. I'm now cruising the globe on the C-5 Galaxy. I'm currently stationed out at Travis AFB in Northern California. I recieved my PPL in 2005 and I got my tailwheel endorsement in a Champ at Amelia Reid Aviation in San Jose in 2007.

I just picked up an Avid Flyer (similiar to a kitfox) not long ago. I've already put a new engine in it and rewired the entire thing with a brand new panel. Right now I'm trying to find out if the fabric on the wings can be saved or not. I was told there were a lot of great fabric guys on here. I've been touch with the folks at Poly Fiber and my Poly fiber book just arrived today. I also went down to my local EAA chapter where I only found a bunch of RV guys that fly around at 200 mph with glass cockpits.

This airplane was covered in Ceconite in the early 90's and painted with what I'm guessing is Aerothane since MEK won't do anything to it. I have a lot of ring worm going on and a few small areas of exposed fabric where the paint has peeled completely. The thing spent a lot of time in a barn where it was not in direct UV but still somewhat exposed to the elements. I have zero experience with covering procedures or fabric so I'm trying to edumicate myself. Aside from the paint being in bad shape the other issue is that the fabric has detached from the bottom of the wing on the most outboard rib. Because of the slow VNE these airplanes only had the fabric cemented to the ribs. The top side is still stuck good. I've heard of people using a big horse syringe and injecting poly tak under the fabric to glue it back down. Another person told me to just take a thin stip of aluminum and screw it to the bottom of the ribs using sheetmetal screws and washers. The ribs are wood though and this would introduce moisture to the ribs I'm thinking.

Anyways enough rambling. I'd really like to try and get some more life out of these things before I tear it down to recover providing the fabric is still good. I'm maule testing it this weekend at a local shop. Here are the pics of the airplane. Any opinions are welcome. If I had the tools, skills, time, space, and money I'd already be in the process of recovering but I currently have none of those things which is why I'm hoping it can be saved otherwise it's going to take me a while to get it in the air.















A video showing the fabric detachment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WRQckV81Y0

Welcome to the site. I'm sure some folks will chime in with some ideas. doesn't seem that bad. Good pic's & video. Wonder why the fabric was not stitched to the ribs originally? May be an option. Repairing fabric isn't that hard and doesn't require any high tech tooling.

Sharp

It's difficult to be sure, but it looks to me like the fabric wasn't prepared properly before applying the paint. Your ringworm bare patches seem to show the paint coming away in slabs from the fabric. It might be that all the coatings were sprayed, whereas the first coat should really be brushed on to get penetration through the weave. It's also possible that they used non-compatible coatings that didn't adhere to each other.

It also looks like it was painted with a heavy wet-look automotive paint with little or no plasticiser.

Sooner or later you will need to find either the time to rectify this yourself, or the money to pay someone else.

It might not be all doom-and-gloom, though:

If the coatings are as I suspect, you could quite easily remove all the paint (and the vinyl l/e) from the fabric with a blunt scraper (use a credit card...about all they're useful for these days!).

It looks like you have straight-edge tapes. This is also good for you, because the tapes should easily peel away (with their topcoat attached) leaving the fabric underneath.

Then, if the fabric is in good nick, you could try brushing through some diluted dope to reattach the fabric to the ribs (personally I would stitch it, because on that wing section, it's difficult to glue the fabric once it's taut). Then re-tape with pinked tapes, and apply your coatings as per the manual.

Note: If the fabric is Ceconite, you have to use the Ceconite process, materials & manual. If it is Poly-Fiber, then you use the polyfiber process, materials & manual. Allegedly.

It would be useful if you had someone local to you look at a sample of the paint that's coming off, for their opinion.

Bear in mind that the fabric is ~15 years old, so you may like to consider whether it might be worth replacing it anyway, for the little extra work involved. You would then get a good look at the interior structure too.

HTH,
Rob

Sharp the manuals did not call for rib stiching on these originally. I'm guessing it was for simplicity. Many builders chose to do it anyways but this one did not for whatever reason.

Rob thanks for the info! I too have questioned this paint. I thought the MEK test would make it easy but MEK didn't really do anything to it. It did smooth it up some and softened just a little bit but from what I understand paint that is able to be rejuventated will basically melt under it. The wing is concave which is why I suspect it came loose. I've seen airplanes flying the way mine is but it's not safe IMO. I am hauling the plane 50 miles on Saturday to an A&P that was recommended to me that does a lot of restoration and fabric work. Hopefully he can shed some more light on the subject. He'll be evaluating the paint and doing a fabric test with a Maule Tester. While I'm aware that test is not really approved at least I'll have a good idea of the state of the fabric. I'll be able to test one of the bare spots too.

hey avidflyer, just about to start learning to fly one of these. We picked one up for my brother in law to cut his teeth on. I we to fly it home from a remote village in Ak and we ended up shipping on a c 46 commando back haul. That was 2003. I flew it the first time this fall. What we have learned so far, #1, never buy an airplane that a surgeon built. "This must be simple, airplane mechanics can do it!" #2, Throw away the maule tail wheel, there are better options that won't lock on you. #3, Strip the fabric off the wings, don't fly it like it is. Do the heavy hauler upgrade. The reason, I didn't see any drain grommets, the trailing edge will collect moisture and delaminate the trailing edge of the ribs. Your flaperons attach to them, if one fails in flight you will die! The HH mod allows you to scribe a new trailing edge on each rib and provides an aluminum trailing edge on the wing, much stronger and no holes drilled in the ribs to allow moisture to enter the wood. When you rerag install seaplane grommets. This is all a very simple procedure and you will be happy with the outcome. #4 Move the throttle to near the top of the dash, this will get it out of the way when flying dual. #5 Vortex generators on the tail, we are just beginning to explore this, but it needs something to help at low speeds. We are not done hear yet. #6 Check for cracks in your landing gear, it is a weak point. #7 Do not assume that since this machine was signed off that it is correct. We are still finding stuff. Wings built out of wack, rigging off a lot, hardware without nylocks or cotter keys, wiring and fuel lines routed improperly, EGT probes installed incorrectly messing with engine break in temps, on and on. All in all Bro got a decent deal, but we weren't expecting this many things wrong. Still he has it with floats, wheels, ski's,new wings, rebuilt engine, and new prop for under 18k not including time. We are looking forward to flying it, but it is no Super Cub. Sitting in it makes the cub seem roomy. Be safe and have fun. If you want to talk about it call me at 907 355 5658 Chris.

I know everybody does it, but think about what stress you are putting that thing through trailering it tail first!

These things are not built for tail winds, especially turning downwind...

Hauled it 900 miles on the trailer. Kept it under 65 the whole way. I'm sure it wasn't good for it.

Chris thanks for the good info. That's where I'm at right now.. pretty much a complete tear down and restore. Lucky for me Dean Wilson himself installed my new engine and rigged the airplane so at least I know that part is good. He's in my local chapter back home and a family friend.