Mississippi Mastodons

[cubchick]

I found this tooth yesterday, just perched on the sand bar, off the Mississippi River, pretty as you please. It's from a juvenile Mastodon, tumbled down the river from??? It could be from Minnesota, Michigan, Missouri...who knows!!

I've never landed on a sand bar. It was massive...miles wide and long, but 2-3 foot drop in places...very fine patches...rode all over the place in 4 wheelers..it was begging to be landed on but how do you properly scout it out?? I imagine this has been touched upon many times.

p.s. sorry about picture quality..iphone pix.

[NimpoCub]

WOW that's incredible!! (I'm believing you here)

Doesn't look like a herbivore tooth tho...

[Torch]

I think there is evidence he had a root canal on that back tooth.

[cubchick]

Mastodons were foragers (leaves, etc.).. Mammoths were the grass eaters...they have flat molars. Google the meaning of Mastodon (ok..I'll go ahead and tell you...it means nipple teeth).

[NimpoCub]

Thanks, CubChick, now I'll sleep better!!

[cubchick]

Well. I figured that might wake you guys up.

[Dan2+2]

I landed on some of the huge sandbars near the OHio/Miss confluence last year. And then I wondered WHY. Sounds like you have gotten the best method already, the 4 wheeler. The only problem I have had is the skinny tailwheel sinks in some. So get the tail up on takeoff. My 800 x 4 tires did fine.
I have done low slow flybys, if it looks rough do not land. Find a different spot.

[WWhunter]

That is AWESOME!!! I love finding old historical things. Best thing I ever found was an old cookie tin full of coins.
WW

[okmike]

That tooth is worth quite a bit of money

[cafi19]

Cool!

My son found an arrowhead up in Maine. So I took him and his artifact to the state archaeologist who worked at the University of CT. We got quite and education...between he and a geologist at the school. See if you can find someone at a local university with knowledge of mastodons. It was a great experience for us. Hopefully you will have the same experience.

cafi

[JP]

WOW!! That is some darn awesome!!

[cubchick]

Thanks!!! I'm quite enameled with the tooth...
people keep trying to extract it from me, but I tell them it would leave a cavity in my heart to sell it...but does it belong in a museum?
that seems to be the root of the matter...
and that's the tooth and nothing but the tooth.




Feel free to add more tooth-isms.

[cafi19]

Naw! You pretty much polished them off.



cafi

[cubchick]

I keep checking under my pillow each morning for like a gazillion dollars from the tooth fairy...

[NimpoCub]

I found a carved peace pipe in perfect condition in the black mud of Crane lake, in N Minn when I was a highschooler.
Dad took it to U-Minn & got quite a report on it, and then they convinced him to donate it.
I was pissed, but was just the kid.

[JimC]

It's a mastodon tooth. They are quite common up and down the length of the Mississippi River.

Due to about 17 years of search and rescue flying in a J3 south of Memphis in the mid 60's and 70's, I still have more landings and takeoffs on the islands and sandbars of the Mississippi and White Rivers than on any other surface.

A few thoughts follow.

Check the bar out before hand, either by walking it or with a fairly low level overflight. Be careful. It's best to do the overflight going downriver due to the shape of the dunes and ripples. Gives you more margin if you make an error.

The dunes and ripples are sawtooth shaped with the more vertical face on the downriver side. For that reason, it is usually best to land going downriver rather than into the wind. Sometimes you are lucky and the two coincide. Landing upriver into the vertical face of one of the ripples will remove your landing gear and do evil things to your prop and the top of your vertical stabilizer. Landing downriver, you'll usually just jump off them like going off a skijump.

Expect the landing to be rough though sometimes they aren't. Keep a very sharp eye out for semi-buried snags, stumps, and logs. They aren't good for the airplane and they aren't good for you if their sharp bits penetrate the fuselage. Caution -- they are hard to see and far more common than mastondon and mammoth teeth.

Unlike seaside beach sand, do NOT land on the damp stuff. It is prone to be somewhat quick, and you may sink in up to your eyeballs. Land on the dry, powdery stuff well away from the waterline.

Do not use the brakes. If you need to stop, use full up elevator and jam the tailwheel into the sand, using it as a land anchor. It's hard on the tailwheel bearings, but better that than hard on the prop if you lock your mains and they bury up while you're still moving.

If the mains sink in while you are sitting still and you can't get the plane to start rolling again, blow the tail off the sand with substantial throttle and carefully applied down elevator, then with the plane horizontal, slowly walk the rudder from side to side. The mains will gradually walk themselves up out of the sand and after the 3rd or 4th oscillation, you'll be back up on top and away you go.

You're mileage may vary. Keep in mind that though I've done a fair bit of this, I make no claims to be good at it.

All the best,
JimC

[Widebody]

If the mains sink in while you are sitting still and you can't get the plane to start rolling again, blow the tail off the sand with substantial throttle and carefully applied down elevator, then with the plane horizontal, slowly walk the rudder from side to side. The mains will gradually walk themselves up out of the sand and after the 3rd or 4th oscillation, you'll be back up on top and away you go.

Or...... just roll your mains up out of the little bit of sink
that's occurred before you get in and just take off.

Brad

[cubchick]

...so don't land in this?
Jim, thank you for the extensive input. Are you saying to do a wheel landing in the dry, powdery sand? I'd be worried about a dip and a resulting prop strike. But maybe I misunderstood you when you mentioned bringing the tail down hard in case you do need to stop. I've had zero experience in dune landings except when I was a kid and my dad got his Maule stuck on an Arkansas River sandbar, and he had to flag down a Marine helicopter flying overhead to help us out.
I know it takes experience, but I worry about the unseen hazards...and while I'm sure it's a thrill, is it really worth it?

p.s. I was NOT the one who got the Polaris stuck in the picture. It took 4 atv's to get it out.

[JimC]

Brad, on the soft, dry, powdery stuff between Memphis and Greenville, we're talking about the wheels sometimes settling in to the point where the axles are down in the sand. You can't roll it out by hand -- or at least, I couldn't when I was young and I durned sure couldn't now. It's much easier to let the engine do the work. Not all the sand is that soft; but some is.

Cubchick -- No, I didn't mean wheel land. I always drug the plane in at a very high AOA with a lot of power and chopped the throttle when I reached the spot where I wanted to touch down. I didn't use more up elevator than absolutely necessary once on the ground because it would drive the tailwheel under. Except of course, when I wanted to use the tailwheel for a brake and chose to drive it under with full up elevator and occasional throttle. I ran a small diameter tailwheel to make it easier to sink it. Re safety, I did it a few thousand times back when people were counting on me to do it, and I never hurt the plane while doing it. Folks don't depend upon me to do it now, so I no longer do it. It was fun though when I was young. Used to like to take a date and a picnic lunch and watch the tows go by as we sat and ate sandwiches under the wing. It was always tough to talk a non-pilot date into letting me land on the sand the first time. It was tougher the second time. By the third, she'd be getting used to it. More seriously, you will find some bars that are smooth as glass, and others that have a substantial crust. But usually they are rough, and you can't depend upon the surface consistency. Plus, the bars can change substantially after a submergence and reappearance. It's kind of fun galumphing along, hopping caddywampus off the crest of the dunes as you build up toward lift-off speed. I can't offer an opinion about whether I think it is worth the risk or not. I don't perceive any risk about it. Others may and there probably is some.
JimC

[aktango58]

cub
chick
nipples

What a thread!!!!!!

I have found my tires once or twice down in sand, and my back is not strong enough to lift out any more.

I like to dig out a ramp in front of the tires to aid in getting out. Also, like skis, forward pressure on the elevator equates to more down pressure on the mains...

Remember to make a few passes over any place you want to land before touching down. Look them over. If you can drive there, fly over and take notes of what you see, then drive over and walk the area. (drop a flag so you know you are in the same spot).

Do it a few times and you will be able to vision what the terrain is like before you put your wheels down.

Once you are ready to land, roll the wheels down the bar a couple of times to check out the lumps. from the air you will see muddy ground will have bathtubs with splatter, sand will show tracks usually with no splatter.

Brakes, even for turning will dig holes. If you can land and take off without back taxiing the first few times it will allow you to get some feel without as much chance of sinking a tire.

Once you land and can stop, STOP AND GET OUT and walk the area you landed, and the area you intend to take off. I guarentee that one day you will miss something, (JimC's snags for example) that if struck will cost you $$$$$. Walking the area immediatly may just be the difference between repairs and happy landings.

Another idea, a day with JimC might be the best way to learn! Nothing like experience to help you out.

Nice tooth by the way!

[JimC]

I agree with aktango about walking both the landing and takeoff areas immediately after you shutdown; it can be educational.

lifting the tail with down elevator can, but doesn't necessarily add much weight to the mains, as it is funtionally identical with lifting the tail by hand -- the way that it can add weight to the mains, is by the forward shift of the cg relative to the mains as you rotate the aircraft horizontal from its normal tail down position. The amount of weight shift depends upon your loading and cg location. The amount is usually not huge.

I don't claim to know what I'm doing about this. I expect I was just extraordinarily lucky over the years. As I mentioned, I haven't done it in a long time because I no longer have a need to.
JimC

[duckhunter]

go fly with jim or come over to greenville and fly with me, learn how to read the bars, not too hard if you practice it, pink palace in memphis has all kind of bones donated from a collector from greenville found on the river

[JimC]

Joe's right, the Pink Palace is quite a nice museum.

Joe, Old Betsy is down at Scott, getting the tail stiffened, and a new paint job. I'm in the midst of re-ringing the O-200 and installing new valve springs. Am painting the O-200 in A-65 colors. Hope to have the J3 back in the air in a couple of weeks.
JimC

[JimC]

P.S. I agree with Joe that the bars are easy to read after a bit of practice.
JimC