HELP J3 with paperwork issues from mods!!!!

[boardmant]

Looking to buy stock '46 J3 but work has been done and not signed off!

Firewall forward of older pa18 bolted onto j3 including C90-12 or-8 I forget, ENCLOSED cowling bolted on, Balanced tailfeathers bolted on, airplane covered in Ceconite with no paperwork either..YIKES. No annual in 20 years. Who's going to sign this off after the fact?

How do I approach this? He said Atlee Dodge had stc's for most of this!

Looking to purchase soon to put on floats

decent price..GO or NO GO???? Could I get Ferry permit?

Tom

[behindpropellers]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1946-...=p4506.c0.m245

[WWhunter]

behindpropellors,
That is the same exact plane I figured he was talking about. There is a reason it has been listed on ebay for several times. Just needs a little TLC.
WW

[Longwinglover]

Needs more than "a little TLC".

John Scott

[bob turner]

Funny - I thought I had tagged along on this one.

Out here a basket case is twenty. I would say that if the thing actually ran, and if the fuselage was relatively rust free, and if the spars are OK, it would be worth 20. You would need to re-do most of the mods and get the engine converted to a dash 8. No need for big tailfeathers; they just complicate things. Probably max ten grand would get it back to type certificate configuration, and then any mechanic could make it right.

There may be an STC for the C90-12 - a field approval might be relatively easy, since the -8 is on the type certificate, as well as the C-85-12.

Or just go get a good metal spar 1946 with good papers for 30 - they are out there! Look closely at lower longerons; we just had one disintegrate here (on the warmup pad - the tailwheel just fell off!).

[boardmant]

How do you convert this to a -8 ? It is a -12. Whats the difference? What would it entail? Thanks Tom

[behindpropellers]

How do you convert this to a -8 ? It is a -12. Whats the difference? What would it entail? Thanks Tom

Tom-

A -12 Engine has provisions for a generator and a starter. You CAN remove them to save weight....it is still a -12 engine though.

There is an STC out there to put a -12 engine on.

rgl.faa.gov will take you to the STC search.

Be careful on this type of "project" you can easily have more in it than it is worth.

Tim

[bob turner]

The dash 8 and dash 12 engines can be converted. I believe there is a Continental memo to that effect. You can apparently convert a C85 to a C90 as well. Cheaper to get the STC, and then it is done.

You have a neighbor up there - 3holer - who has done all this before with a Cub - he kept us all up to date with his experiences fixing a J-3. If you choose a good solid airframe with serviceable fabric, the experience of "making it right" will turn you in to a Cub expert, which is a good thing to be. Your average mechanic will know next to nothing about fabric aircraft, so you need to be a knowledgabe backup resource.

But do consider the alternative - a creampuff restoration with a functioning comm unit and intercom. Then just get in and fly!

[pzinck]

Heard the seller flew it down south to the winning bidder and the buyer pulled out his faa credentials and grounded the plane. This is heresay from some of his friends.

[Longwinglover]

pzinck,

The truth is more along the lines of the owner flew an airplane that had been rebuilt, modified and recovered, but had NO logbook sign offs for the work done OR any annual inspections or anything else SINCE 1972.

The buyers intermediary happened to be an FAA maintenance inspector. The owner was given wide discretion by the inspector, but since the airplane was not legally airworthy, wouldn't allow it to fly out of the airport that is in his own back yard.

Not hearsay.

John Scott

[pzinck]

John, i don't know much about this. Last week another supercub.orger landed at my field and mentioned this. The story was there was pressure from the faa guy to drop the price and when he would'nt, the plane was grounded. This is all that i know. For all i know the supposed facts are much different than was told to me. The guy telling me the story was not the owner. The plane did not look like it had new fabric to me as stated in the ad. I was not interested in the plane for your stated reasons. He was asking 35,000 up here for awhile. I figured if i was going to spend that much i would spend another 10 and get a clean certified model.

[Longwinglover]

pzinck,

I want to lay that rumor to rest RIGHT NOW. This guy is one of the few "good one's" working FOR GA within the FAA today. Years of experience with his own shop before joining the FAA.

The accusation in the story told to you is NOT TRUE.

John Scott

[bob turner]

It cannot be true. Urging somebody to lower the price by threatening legal action is extortion - and a crime. FAA inspectors all know that.

On the other hand, calling an FAA inspector to help you purchase an aircraft is not really the greatest idea - I highly recommend against that, and there may be some regs against it for the inspectors. Our inspectors do not get involved in private deals.

[alaskadrifter]

wouldn't allow it to fly out of the airport that is in his own back yard.

Not hearsay.

John Scott

How then would one get it home to work on it? Ferry Permit?? How hard do you reckon it would be to do that?

[tempdoug]

Be careful on this type of "project" you can easily have more in it than it is worth.
Tim, would you show me one cub in this world that isnt like that. doug

[Steve Pierce]

On the other hand, calling an FAA inspector to help you purchase an aircraft is not really the greatest idea - I highly recommend against that, and there may be some regs against it for the inspectors. Our inspectors do not get involved in private deals.

There was an airplane in Fresno that I was interested in. I called a buddy in Fresno that happened to be an FAA inspector. He and a fellow inspector went and looked at it for me. I passed on it. Same deal, no paperwork on recover, wrong engine with no paperwork, along with a long list of things seen just from the walk around. Someone else bought it and it ended up in my shop. Scary stuff.

[Steve Pierce]

[quote="alaskadrifter
How then would one get it home to work on it? Ferry Permit?? How hard do you reckon it would be to do that?[/quote]
Hopefully he would give the guy a ferry permit.

[S2D]

Heard the seller flew it down south to the winning bidder and the buyer pulled out his faa credentials and grounded the plane. This is heresay from some of his friends.

Good for him anyone flying an airplane like that to someone is asking for trouble.

Now flying it away from someone is a different matter.

[JimC]

With thanks to John Scott for finding it. Donor is PA-20/22 rather than PA-18
JimC

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STC SA02387CH for balanced elevators on J3C. This has been done by 337 in the past (or just "done") and I've had people ask about paperwork. I've never flown a J3 with this setup so can't comment if it makes a positive difference.

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgstc.nsf/0/1140bf38be4c29e8862572fe00625130/$FILE/SA02387CH.pdf

John Scott

........................

[Longwinglover]

No, the thanks go to Steve Pierce for finding it an posting on Supercub.org. I just posted his information on J3-Cub.com.

Good stuff whomever found it!

John Scott

[hotrod150]

The IA who I used to do my annuals with went to work for the FAA as a maintenance inspector, and part of the conditions of his employment were that he could not exercise the privileges of his A&P or IA tickets. Policing other mechanics would be a possible conflict of interest, I suppose. But I assume that it woulkd be legal for him to look over an airplane for a friend as an unofficial (non-A&P) tire-kicker.

Eric