Water Rudder Tabs on Longeron

Hi Gang,
Was wondering if I could get some ideas on how to attach the water rudder pulley bracket on the Longeron. Atlee Dodge sent me some tabs to weld on the bottom of the longeron about 72" up from the tail post and then throw an eye bolt in. Does anyone have any pics of this setup?

We are recovering this fall so the fabric will be off and we're having a welder come in to do some work anyways.

Thanks guys for your help,
Scott

Scott,
Dismantling my fuselage right now, I just measured my H2O rudder longeron pulleys so I can weld tabs there when I recover. I have 57" from aft landing gear bolt, 2 tabs with eye-bolts then run a nut & bolt thru pulley. I run Baumann floats if it makes any difference on location. I you want a pic I can send one tomorrow..
Pat

Scott,

I when I purchase my 1962 PA-18 in 1994 it had 15 hours on complete rebuild. The man had done a wonderful job and had added a few things.
One of them was a lift handle on both sides of the fuselage. When I had my floats put on they used them for the rudders and it has worked out well.

Here is a bracket that I fabbed up.

Thanks guys, that's great. I didn't really understand how the whole eye bolt into the tab thing worked but like they say "A picture's worth a thousand words!"

Here is a photo from my album on how I did mine. Jrussl's looks better but this may help. There are a couple more photos in my album on this. Hope it helps.

Bill

Here is a bunch of EDO 2000 pictures on a supercub that somebody had me take a while ago while they were rigging.


http://picasaweb.google.com/tim.cochrane/Edo2000#

Thanks again guys.

With regards to the eyebolts in the tab.... does the housing of the pulley have a bolt on either end that goes thru each eyebolt, then a nut?

Cheers,
Scott

The EDO installation drawing calls for a 1/4" clevis pin, washer and cotter pin. You could use a AN-4 bolt, washer and nut.

We've located where to weld on the water rudder tabs on each side of the fuse. Just wondering about the location and setup of a third (center?) pulley that looks like it goes between the two side ones. There isn't a cross member right in line and also there is a light "stringer" that runs the length of the fuse underneath giving it its v shape vs. a flat bottom. Anybody have any suggestions or pics.

Thanks for the help!
Scott

I don't think it's necessary to have the third pulley right in between the other two. The third pulley is for the cable that runs from one water rudder to the other and is completely separate from the other two. The cable length can be adjusted to accommodate the pulley location. I made a bracket and welded it to one of the 1/2" (?) cross members near the other two. I think it's the next one towards that tail. I made sure the bracket stood off of the cross member so that it would be flush with the inside of the fabric and also angled it a bit. Just looked through my pics and could not find one of this particular bracket. I'll be at the hanger tomorrow night and can post a pic on Wed.

Jeff

Watch those eyebolts rusting into your bracket :evil: Especially here with salt everywere...

As far as rigging... you can look at many planes, and I think that all have a different set up for water rudders...

The thing to remember is that it is a loop.

Outside of one water rudder to rudder lever, other rudder lever to outside of other water rudder.

Inside of water rudders connected to each other.

The rudder lever is an arm bolted to your horn to give more throw to the water rudders.

The cables go forward, up and back. The farther forward they run on the floats, the less you will hang up in them, get them caught in weeds, trees and your head pushing the plane. But the more cable it takes...

I have seen the crossover cable, (one water rudder to the other) go forward to the spreader bar, across inside of it, then back to the other rudder- slick and never caught weeds. My current one goes about 1.5 feet forward and across. Always has reeds on it, always tripping over it.

Some go forward a bit, up to the center of the fuse and back down like an aframe- great to strangle you when fighting the wind...

The pully position is not as critical until after you rig the floats!

I'll second what AkTango58 said about the water rudder balancing cable running forward and through the rear spreader bar. Not only does it get rid of a set of cables hanging out there in the breeze, it's one less attachment to the fuselage you have to deal with each time you change to/from floats.

A pulley (like the pulleys with the angled frame in your photo) is attached to each side where the spreader bar is bolted to the float attachment. The existing water rudder balance cable pulley on the float is replaced with a fair-lead.

Once that's done, each time you change gear you only have to install the pulleys on the fuselage for the cable running to the airplane's rudder, and connect the water rudder retract cable .

Jim

Thru the rear spreader bar sounds like a pretty clean way of doing it. Would anyone with this setup have any pics of the pulleys attached up at the spreader bar????

I'll spend the night looking in the photo section but just in case I come up short........

Scott

Water Rudder Pully

I have tabs on my longerons and wanted to install some nut plates to mount the pulley brackets. I need the on center spacing for them. Do different float manufactures use different size pulleys? Thanks

2"

water rudders

Thanks. Does this work with any float manufacturer? Are the brackets universal? Is the center balance cable bracket the same?

I know this is an older post but I hope someone is still watching it. I made similar brackets to the ones by Bill Rusk and jrussl but I cannot tell what size eyebolt to use, are you using 3/16 shanks (AN42B) or 1/4 shanks (AN43B)? I want to install the nutplates but not sure what size. Also, the 2" center to center quoted by Fabman looks correct, anyone think any different?

Harry

FlatSideShovel said:

I know this is an older post but I hope someone is still watching it. I made similar brackets to the ones by Bill Rusk and jrussl but I cannot tell what size eyebolt to use, are you using 3/16 shanks (AN42B) or 1/4 shanks (AN43B)? I want to install the nutplates but not sure what size. Also, the 2" center to center quoted by Fabman looks correct, anyone think any different?

Harry

Click to expand...

1/4" if i remember right

Mike is correct. AN3 will be fine.

Bill

EDO uses 1/4".

I put a sealed nut plate on mine and then at the end of the float season, just put a short bolt in. Clean installation.

anyone have pics of the balance cable through the rear spreader?

DW said:

anyone have pics of the balance cable through the rear spreader?

Click to expand...

Here's a couple:

The rudder balance cable commonly runs through a pulley mounted on each float, a couple feet forward from the back end of the float. This cable, running from one float to the other catches weeds and is always in the way. Running it up to the rear spreader bar allows you to get rid of the pulley and bracket on the rear of the float and replace it with a fairlead. The pulley is attached to the spreader bar attachment hardware with a simple right angle bracket and the existing bolts/nuts, with the cable running inside the spreader bar from one side to the other.

The original post asked about tabs for attaching the rudder control cable pulley to the lower longeron. You commonly see this cable running from the water rudder, forward along the float to a pulley on the floats a foot or so aft of the struts, then up to the fuselage, through a pulley (the one attached to the longeron) then back to the arm on the bottom of the plane's rudder.

Another way to run this cable is to replace the pulley on the float with a fairlead and run the cable straight up along the float to a pulley and bracket on the lower end of the rear float strut, straight up along the trailing edge of the rear strut to another pulley and bracket at the top end of the rear strut, then straight back along the lower longeron to the rudder. You replace the pulley and bracket discussed in most of this thread with another fairlead, using the attachment point tab discussed in most of this thread. It's really a clean way to run the cables and reduces the number of things that need to be changed when changing between wheels and floats.

Jim

Anyone know of a source for those eyebolts as shown in pic #3? Other than EDO?

cruiser said:

Anyone know of a source for those eyebolts as shown in pic #3? Other than EDO?

Click to expand...

What did you buy? Kit floats. Look at post #4, you can make your own with some eye bolts

Glenn

Just checking to see if your out of the tub yet Glenn